VCR buying guide (S-VHS / D-VHS / Professional)

[PLC401]

Picked up a (lightly used) JVC HRS9600EU (Continental Europe retailed model) a few months back; I can say I have absolutely no regrets with the purchase. I'm in the UK so had to stick an adapter on the mains plug to convert it over, no sweat.

After initially leaving the machine untouched for some time, I just recently decided to run a VHS through it that had been recorded in Long Play mode (not originally my recording - I don't like using LP on such tapes!); the picture I got out of the VCR alone honestly surpassed my expectations - looked very clear and clean - and it seemed with a generous dollop of software tweaking afterward the result really managed to squeeze an awful lot out of the source.

Pity that couldn't be said for the sound, which in any case can't be improved in this same way or level (if there *is* some hard or software tech equivalent for audio signal improvement/optimization, tell me!) but as far as the video goes: I burned the final output to a DVD, and it looked very respectable on a CRT indeed; some scenes just looked crisp enough to make me even question whether the original video was an LP VHS - looked far closer to an immaculate high-grade SP recording (which this tape was certainly not). So yeah, I'm very content with this piece of kit and I do like the picture it gives

[Bix]

The original post should be edited to note that the JVC HR-S9800U is also available as the GoVideo SDV-650. It's exactly the same VCR except it has different branding (obviously) and the Go is black instead of silver like the JVC branded model is.

[lordsmurf]

The original post should be edited to note that the JVC HR-S9800U is also available as the GoVideo SDV-650. It's exactly the same VCR except it has different branding (obviously) and the Go is black instead of silver like the JVC branded model is.

Done.
Any updates that need to be made to the original thread, please post a new reply, then PM me a link to the reply.

[lordsmurf]

IMHO, the SONY SLV-R1000 deserves an honorable mention. A most superb picture, and built like a tank. Often, it'll play tapes that have trouble in my JVC 9900U.

Anybody want to second this suggestion/praise for the Sony unit?

[bebrewer1]

I'm looking at a few units online, trying to keep the spend less than $300 if possible.

Does anyone have any feedback or recommendations they could share on these models?

Panasonic DMR-EA38V DVD Recorder/VCR Combo
Toshiba D-VR610 DVD Recorder/VCR Combo with Upconversion (DVR610)
Toshiba D-VR660 DVD Recorder/VCR Combo with Built-in Tuner (DVR660)

Thanks

[victoriabears]

Sorry to sound like a broken record-but if you are converting vhs to dvd , what were the tapes recorded on and what have you tried so far.

[bebrewer1]

These are generic VHS tapes that I found at my Mom's, a couple were recorded from live TV, 1 looks to be a Super8 to VHS conversion that was professionally done and the other was recorded from one of those old VHS movie cameras from the early 90s.

Thanks for your help!

[victoriabears]

How many vhs tapes we talking about? and do they play ok on your tv from the vcr you have?

[bebrewer1]

Four tapes with no more than 30 minutes of video on each one. They play perfectly on my home VHS player.

[victoriabears]

"They play perfectly on my home VHS player"

So, if you have no further use for a vcr? , get a Philips dvdr3576, not a panasonic they still create a plastic image,

Toshiba or may be JVC. are other good choices.

www.ecost.com might have them or off Ebay and away you go.

Unless you really want a combo, and why, when you have a vcr thats works?

Believe me I have been at this for 4 years and started with the presumption my vhs recordings needed improvement, I forgot I have always used the best vcr's/tapes/signal, thats why they are good recordings.

Yes any VHS (?) can be improved but its the time needed and learning and I am doing my easy ones first then seeing whats left.

[orsetto]

IMHO, the SONY SLV-R1000 deserves an honorable mention. A most superb picture, and built like a tank. Often, it'll play tapes that have trouble in my JVC 9900U.

Anybody want to second this suggestion/praise for the Sony unit?

This one is a "maybe". They are very VERY hard to find in good condition, the transports tended to break down more often than on lesser Sony models. Repair shops view them as "premium" decks and apparently try to gouge on fixing them, so many owners throw them up for sale "as-is" once they fail. If you can get one at a reasonable price that works properly they can make a good backup to a JVC or Panasonic with TBC, but I wouldn't buy one as my primary deck. Note there was a similar "industrial" model SVO-2000 and an exotic Japan-market version. All use the same chassis and finicky transport.

[vhelp]

** Panasonic AG-6300 **

To anyone who may be interested or knowledged..

I just so happen to come across a Panasonic AG-6300 unit. It has VU meters and a slew of other interesting knobs and buttons and what-not. It is slated for the garbadge, but I did ask to keep it, that is, if its any good in comparison to the others listed on the first page here.

Lordsmurf, orsetto, davideck, if any of you know about this unit, I'd be interested in all of your comments. Its just that when I saw the "AG" part, I couldn't help but stop and think about that topic that was started here, this one, that is.g

Thanks,

-vhelp 4926

[orsetto]

The Panasonic AG6300 is an older industrial/pro deck which is very heavy-duty and well built. Assuming it has decent head condition and the transport is OK, it can be a fun toy to play with. It has some strikes against it as a feeder deck for DVD encoding, however. It is quite old, with the older SP-only professional 58mm head gap spec, which means it adds a lot of unnecessary video noise to most tapes recorded originally on consumer VCRs with their typical 37mm (or even 19mm) SP heads. It has no SVHS compatibility and no provision for a TBC or DNR, either built-in or add-on card. No remote is available. If you can get it for near-nothing and have room in your house to store it, its a nice reminder of how quality electronics used to be built. But it isn't a practical deck to use.

NOTE ADDED: The one really useful feature of this deck is that it will play the older pre-hifi stereo tapes, which have two linear tracks, in true stereo. There are very few such tapes that were not re-released in hifi or re-released as DVDs, but there some rare ones out there and if you have them, this VCR will play them for you in stereo at a dirt-cheap price. It may present a noisier picture than a newer deck which will play the tapes only in mono, but the tradeoff could be worth it for rare music-oriented programs.

[lordsmurf]

I'm looking at a few units online, trying to keep the spend less than $300 if possible.
Does anyone have any feedback or recommendations they could share on these models?
Panasonic DMR-EA38V DVD Recorder/VCR Combo
Toshiba D-VR610 DVD Recorder/VCR Combo with Upconversion (DVR610)
Toshiba D-VR660 DVD Recorder/VCR Combo with Built-in Tuner (DVR660)
Thanks

This thread is about high-end equipment, and you're asking a question about which consumer combo deck is best? Not only is a combo deck consumer quality, it is the bottom-of-the-barrel of consumer quality. The answer is "neither" and all of them are more or less jnuk. You need a separate VCR and a separate capture device (be it DVD recorder or otherwise) to attain the high quality sought by people reading this section of the forum.

Four tapes with no more than 30 minutes of video on each one. They play perfectly on my home VHS player.

You're a perfect candidate to just use a service.

For example, I would charge a pretty small amount for only four 30-minute tapes, assuming they are SP mode in good condition. It would be a lot cheaper than buying equipment, less time than learning what you need, and just hassle-free altogether to just pay somebody. Of course, this assumes you can find a good service. The best services are online (people like myself who specialize in careful quality VHS work), the crappiest ones are local (or served from chains like Walgreens, where bulk-processed speed is valued over your quality).

Food for thought. 8)

[Bix]

Possibly stupid question: If the AG-1980P's TBC is full frame, why doesn't it kill tapes' copy protection (at least in my experience)??

Thanks!

[orsetto]

Because the AG1980 was sold as both a semi-pro and high-end consumer machine: it straddled both markets. Even though its TBC is "full-frame", it is crippled regarding MacroVision to keep it in compliance with other VCRs sold through consumer sources. Also, MacroVision is very very tricky: I have seen it slip past several megabuck professional TBCs I've tried at home and in post-production suites I've worked in. Bypassing it isn't quite as simple as the "blank line 21" conventional wisdom would have us believe. I've got $30 disposable "video clarifiers" that do a better job on MV than $2000 I-Den rack-mount TBCs.

[lordsmurf]

From another post:

IF you can get one a panasonic vcr model 880 or 930B has TBC/DNR and its more gentle than the jvc, better built as well.

Panasonic NV-HS 880 come without TBC, has only DNR.
Consumer Panasonic Pal models with TBC from older to the last model:
Panasonic NV-FS 200
Panasonic NV-HS 950
Panasonic NV-HS 1000
Panasonic NV-HS 860
Panasonic NV-HS 930
Panasonic NV-HS 960
Panasonic NV-SV 121

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I have not personally used one but some of the JVC Dual Decks VHS-SVHS/DVD-R have TBC and Noise Reduction. I don't have a complete list of models but both the SR-MV50US and the SR-MV55US have these features and it looks like they are both currently available! (V50 as a restock for $619 and the V55 for under $600 from multiple sources):
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/338463.html

JVC SRMV50US-RESTOCK
Sale Price: $619.00
High-End S-VHS VCR w/TBC and 3D noise reduction

The SR-MV55US has:
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?model_id=MDL101696&feature_id=02

S-VHS digital technologies
The S-VHS deck on the SR-MV55 features several advanced digital technology features.

# Time Base Corrector (TBC) removes jitter to produce a more stable picture even when old tapes are used.
# Luminance (Y) and chroma (C) signals are separated precisely by 3D Digital Y/C Separation to suppress cross-color noise and dot-interference.
# 3D YNR/CNR improves the S/N ratio of luminance and chroma signals.
# 2MB frame memory for high-quality still pictures and slow motion.

Crystal-clear playback
Playback quality can be improved on multi-generation tapes or tapes created on different VCRs by using the Tape Level Up and Intelligent Picture functions. w Crystal-clear playback

I can't find a reference to PAL Models. Does anyone know if there are PAL Versions of these decks?

I have a close friend who needs to archive some very precious VHS tapes.

Does anyone know where I can get of a PAL version of any of the JVC Decks (VHS/SHVS or DVHS/SVHS or DVD/SVHS) with Digipure and TBC)?

Thanks!

Best Wishes,

Mitch

[victoriabears]

In my experience, getting a high end deck in the hope it will improve the quality of playback on tapes recorded on typical (For whatever year they were recorded) Consumer VCR's does not work.

Concentrating on the quality of the recording and playing it back on the best vcr for the job, (Chicken and egg problem) is the quest, and it isn;t easy.

Also using an external TBC will often help the capturing device, dvd recorder or PC get the best out of the source.

I do not think those combos were sold in PAL, by its very nature PAL is a better quality source than NTSC, and a good Panasonic VCR for PAL is better again in my experience than a JVC.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

In my experience, getting a high end deck in the hope it will improve the quality of playback on tapes recorded on typical (For whatever year they were recorded) Consumer VCR's does not work.

I don't know about typical tapes (our footage was shot on Prosumer Camcorders so the results might be different) and I haven't tried this with PAL but everyone who watched our footage played back on a JVC HR-S9911U was impressed with the quality. It was not a subtle difference. My wife saw a sample, not a direct comparison, but she is familiar with the material and her reaction was "can we buy one (a HR-S9911U)?".

Also using an external TBC will often help the capturing device, dvd recorder or PC get the best out of the source.

Thanks, good idea.

I do not think those combos were sold in PAL

I don't think so either but the model numbers can be very different and its pretty hard to get information on PAL equipment in the U.S. so I'm not absolutely sure. Since the NTCS Models are currently available I'd like to exhaust every possibility.

by its very nature PAL is a better quality source than NTSC, and a good Panasonic VCR for PAL is better again in my experience than a JVC.

Once again results with PAL and our material might be different but that directly contradicts our NTSC results. A friend got better results (he was archiving several hundred hours of tapes and did a very careful comparison) with the 9911 than a Panasonic AG7650 (Original MSRP: $5650.00). He ended up only using the AG7650 for some tapes that the 9911 couldn't track correctly. This is what he said (via email):

I was surprised at how well the 9911 could extract video from our NTSC tapes. It would be a great choice if you can find one in PAL.

Thanks!

Mitch

[victoriabears]

The facts on jvc and Panny vcr's in the UK are that the last JVC with tbc/dnr was the hr-s8965:-

http://www.jvc.co.uk/files/instruction_manual/lpt0771-001a.pdf

and for panny, the last were 960 and 121:-

http://tda.panasonic-europe-service.com/docs/2z49d1405dz3z1ff91z656ez706466z26zcb1d988...rqtd0085-a.pdf

The pannys are better built, and come up on ebay.co.uk regularly, but it costs you about $80.00 to ship.

I have large number of these machines, yes I need therapy, to do my large collection of PAL conversions.

[MitchJi]

Hi,

The facts on jvc and Panny vcr's in the UK are that the last JVC with tbc/dnr was the hr-s8965:-

http://www.jvc.co.uk/files/instruction_manual/lpt0771-001a.pdf

and for panny, the last were 960 and 121:-

http://tda.panasonic-europe-service.com/docs/2z49d1405dz3z1ff91z656ez706466z26zcb1d988...rqtd0085-a.pdf

The pannys are better built, and come up on ebay.co.uk regularly, but it costs you about $80.00 to ship.

I have large number of these machines, yes I need therapy, to do my large collection of PAL conversions.

Thanks !

Mitch

[vega12]

Hi,

I have seen a second-hand Panasonic V8000 VCR (PAL). It is said to be a former top model (8-10 years) with build-in TBC. However, I cannot find any Panasonic with that name on Google. Does anybody know this model?
Intended use: High quality conversion from Super VHS to DV.

Cheers

[victoriabears]

How much?

Send more details as provided by the seller, it is just an old Panasonic VCR, does it have tbc/dnr?

Looks like the hs960

[orsetto]

Once again results with PAL and our material might be different but that directly contradicts our NTSC results. A friend got better results (he was archiving several hundred hours of tapes and did a very careful comparison) with the 9911 than a Panasonic AG7650 (Original MSRP: $5650.00). He ended up only using the AG7650 for some tapes that the 9911 couldn't track correctly.

The JVC 9911 is an absolute junk throwaway VCR mechanism with a fancy flip down door and excellent TBC/DNR circuit. If you get one that works well, you'll love it, but more than a few of us have had big trouble with it. Its important when shopping these types of used VCR that you don't blindly rush out and spend big sums on a model just because it gets some recommendations on forums: at the time they were first sold, no one had any illusions these were anything other than the $150 base model with a $300 TBC/DNR circuit board grafted on. Keep this in perspective, especially with the 9911 which had to be the flimsiest "high end" SVHS JVC ever sold (it was the last). If you want the JVC-style TBC/DNR, you're FAR better off looking for a recent DVHS model with those features, like the JVC SR-VD400 or the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000.

There is a common misunderstanding regarding the merits of old $4000 studio vcrs for consumer use: they are actually not nearly as good as a consumer JVC or Panasonic AG1980. These machines can seem like a "steal" since they now sell for $50-100 on eBay, but they aren't worth it. The transports and video heads are optimized for "old school" SP recording, which was eliminated from all consumer recorders around 1988. 90% of consumer tapes will play back very poorly on something like an AG7650 because the VCRs larger heads are reading 60% noise from blank areas of the tape not recorded or played on consumer vcrs. Those old hulks are great toys, and its fun to get a $5000 vcr for $50, but it won't make a good source vcr for DVD transfers.

[lordsmurf]

Pal Panasonic consumer models with TBC and DNR from older to the last model built:
Panasonic NV-FS 200, made before 1993
Panasonic NV-HS 1000, made before 1993, lack true DNR. Instead has CVC (Crystal Viev Control = automatic control of the details=automatic sharpness control) Has built in editing controler
Panasonic NV-HS 950, 1993
Panasonic NV-HS 860, made in 2000 or 2001, S-VHS ET
Panasonic NV-HS 930, made in 2000 or 2001, S-VHS ET
Panasonic NV-HS 960, made in 2000 or 2001, S-VHS ET
Panasonic NV-SV 121, made after 860, 930, 960 series, S-VHS ET, last model built by Panasonic with TBC and DNR

[samijubal]

I see a couple of posts about the HMD-H5U here. Has anyone actually used this? How does it work for standard VHS tapes? Would it be considerably better than a standard Mitsubishi 4-head HiFi VCR? I have a lot of VHS tapes and can get the JVC for $50 if it's a good machine.

[Shinri]

Like some others, I'm interested in getting the best possible playback to transfer some pretty rough PAL tapes, before they're completely dead.

Anyone have experience with the Philips VR 1500? S-VHS with TBC

http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/v/vr1500_58/vr1500_58_pss_eng.pdf

What about the Panny NV-HS900, any experience there.

Ideally, I'd like one of the PAL W-VHS machines, but they're pretty thin on the ground.

[orsetto]

The JVC HM-DH5U is a variation of the HM-DH40000U. They are similar except for the HM-DH5U being a little less fancy-looking and having an improved (runs less hot) power supply. The playback image would be similar to what you would expect from one of the vintage JVC SVHS decks recommended by LordSmurf. Depending on your specific tapes and specific model of Mitsubishi VCR, you might see some noticeable improvements. Note however the JVC DVHS usa models do not include a TBC, they only have the digital noise reduction and color enhancement circuits. From what I've seen, these are the key circuits to the "JVC look", the TBC is not nearly as important and indeed its sometimes preferable not to have it. The old JVC SVHS decks do not let you separate the TBC function from the DNR: both are either on or off. So if you like the JVC DNR output, but have had problems from the TBC interfering on some tapes, the JVC DVHS units could be exactly what you want. As a bonus, they are much newer with more reliable transport mechanics. At $50, if you can still get it I think you'd be happy with it as a backup deck. You could always flip it for at least that amount on eBay if you decide you don't need it after all.

[victoriabears]

That Philips is a JVC clone, eg: 9500, same potential issues, flimsy tape transport.

I have found the Panasonics of more recent vintage better, but thats me.

Not the 950, bit long in the tooth now.