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  1. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dima View Post
    Panasonic NV-HS1000. But also about Panasonic NV-SV121.
    Did you use these two devices and are able to compare them to each other?
    Not those.
    I have JVC HR-S7965EK, great image quality, decent mechanics.
    But I see lots of files from lots of models.

    Later produced(newer) ... doesn't mean that they are better
    No.

    Panasonic NV-HS1000 or JVC HR-S7722(because it's probably older than HR-S9600) ?
    Both JVC are about the same age, 96-ish, HS1000 from early 00s. But again, age doesn't matter. Quality matters. Just note that most good decks are from mid/late 90s,a and early 00s. Nothing 80s, not early 90s, and nothing existed in 2010s. So you're not going to find a quality decks from 1990 or 2010, that's just nonsense.

    [There is also the issue of device performance, where I think that for example DD (Dynamics Drums) in JVC can do more harm than good for example for cassettes. (Maybe).
    DD almost never does more harm that good. But it may or may not help. The bigger issue with DD is all are not about 20 years old, and the plastic is breaking down sort of like Panasonic caps. Masses, not isolated. I rarely see a 9x00 deck without a DD issue now, mostly read about DD issues. No replacement parts exist, and 3D printing tecj isn't yet viable for printing the gear that's needed. So us owners with faulty decks wait. There are some workarounds that various members of www.digitalFAQ.com/forum have found to bypass DD, but I'm not sure I'd recommended it. It's major VCR surgery, and the outcome may not be the same quality deck when done.
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  2. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    If you're going to buy at VCRSHOP .... go for the Panasonic DMR-ES35V it has some kind of processing..... which gives a very stable video signal... it's no TBC but my Intensity Shuttle has absolute no problems with it, and BMD products are choosy.. works perfect, the component video output works also for the VHS deck/part
    no need for external tbc etc...
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  3. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Both JVC are about the same age, 96-ish, HS1000 from early 00s.
    I thought that the Panasonic NV-HS1000 was produced in the years(or when its production was then started) in the following years(somewhere about): 1993 - 1995. I thought so on the basis of this data:
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/286055-VCR-buying-guide-(S-VHS-D-VHS-Professional)...e2#post1876423
    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/1567-vcr-buying-guide-7.html#post32565
    Do you know to which year was this model produced ? [For example to 1995 or to later year] ?
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  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    If you're going to buy at VCRSHOP .... go for the Panasonic DMR-ES35V
    That's a terrible choice. It offers nothing useful.
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  5. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    If you're going to buy at VCRSHOP .... go for the Panasonic DMR-ES35V
    That's a terrible choice. It offers nothing useful.
    Why do you say that ? i own this one, it gives a very stable video signal, no external TBC needed, which most VCR's need.
    Why so negative ? did you use and try the ES35V ? Why do you "think" it's bad ? some hard evidence please.... you're so irritating.
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  6. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Eric-jan View Post
    Why do you say that ? i own this one, it gives a very stable video signal, no external TBC needed, which most VCR's need.
    Why so negative ? did you use and try the ES35V ? Why do you "think" it's bad ? some hard evidence please.... you're so irritating.
    Your own sample clips, what few you've given, show obvious quality problems. It's just another low-end Panasonic DVD recorder that accepts whatever signal it's given, and in turn outputs it on whatever output is selected. Garbage in, garbage out. No corrections, no filtering, no image improvement, which is the reason for these VCRs.

    No item magically removed need for a TBC. That's not how it works. The ES35V does not contain anything that could be considered TBC-like whatsoever, as has been confirmed by multiple other knowledgeable European pro members (Bogilein, hodgey, etc).

    I'm not "negative", I'm just getting tired of newbie spreading false information. We've already had this same conversation, too many times now.

    Liking/buying the device doesn't change these facts. I like my car, it's fast, but I'm not dumb enough to insist it could win Nascar.

    Anyway, this is a thread about buying the best VCRs, so you need to just back away slowly, you're straying off topic.
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  7. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    It's about capturing VHS tapes..... i thought....
    (nobody told me what was wrong with my captures btw)
    Last edited by Eric-jan; 16th Jul 2019 at 11:49.
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  8. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    No item magically removed need for a TBC. That's not how it works. The ES35V does not contain anything that could be considered TBC-like whatsoever
    Like all DVD Recorders, the Panasonic ES35V contains a 'frame synchronizer', which some people here refer to as a "full frame TBC". The video output timing will be stable and continuous regardless of the video input condition, but as always, YMMV.

    Here we are in 2019, and the mass confusion over what a 'TBC' is and does still remains a mystery to many.
    Life is better when you focus on the signals instead of the noise.
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  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davideck View Post
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    No item magically removed need for a TBC. That's not how it works. The ES35V does not contain anything that could be considered TBC-like whatsoever
    Like all DVD Recorders, the Panasonic ES35V contains a 'frame synchronizer', which some people here refer to as a "full frame TBC". The video output timing will be stable and continuous regardless of the video input condition, but as always, YMMV.
    A frame sync is not a frame sync TBC. So a DataVideo TBC-1000 isn't at all the same as DVD recorder.

    Furthermore, even when DVD recorders seem to have some sort of TBC(ish) functionality, they have holes gouged in the processing, to purposely allow passage of anti-copy. Yet legitimate issue leak through, always have. So it's not a true TBC, and does not completely eliminated problems -- ie the reason for the TBC to even be in a workflow chain. There are workarounds, involving two devices that claim to be "TBC" (but neither actually are individually).

    Originally Posted by davideck View Post
    Here we are in 2019, and the mass confusion over what a 'TBC' is and does still remains a mystery to many.
    TBC is an extremely loose term, and even the types of TBCs vary. There are frame, field, line, and some others. And each has varying degrees of strengths. As an example, the "TBC" inside an ADVC-300 is so wimpy that it may as well not even exist, no major visual corrections, no major signal corrections. Same goes for most DVD recorders. Garbage in, worse garbage out.

    You and I used to have a lot of disagreement and discussion on this site. But in the past 5 years, I've either owned or tested everything I could that claimed to have "TBC". And I've met several folks in USA and EU that did the same. To some degree, it was to find TBC alternatives, since TBCs were both becoming harder to find, and rising in costs. Most "TBCs" hugely disappoint, and are TBC in name only (meaning not really a TBC at all).

    The term is so haphazardly thrown around that I often joke my toaster could have a TBC.

    TBC is not TBC. It's just not. I wish it were not the case, but that's just our reality.
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  10. What with that: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/286055-VCR-buying-guide-(S-VHS-D-VHS-Professional)...10#post2555195 ?
    (In Service Manual for Panasonic NV-HS1000 for versions: EGC, BYP, ECP(which ones are probably newer than for example: EG model) is writing year: 1995.)

    [Which is better for capturing the signal from VHS tapes to a file than Canopus ADVC-300 in terms of the quality of the captured image (not looking only in terms TBC - let's assume it is good because I have the best external TBC - only for "general" quality[among others, TBC affects this.] of picture) ? Is something for USB connection better than Canopus ADVC-300(DV connection) ? I know about ATI 600 USB but is hard to get it.]
    Last edited by dima; 17th Jul 2019 at 06:30.
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  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dima View Post
    What with that: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/286055-VCR-buying-guide-(S-VHS-D-VHS-Professional)...10#post2555195 ?
    (In Service Manual for Panasonic NV-HS1000 for versions: EGC, BYP, ECP(which ones are probably newer than for example: EG model) is writing year: 1995.)
    There are several PAL S-VHS users with detailed knowledge on those decks over at www.digitalFAQ.com/forum, so you may want to ask this there. My gut feeling is that there's not a major difference. There rarely is, when it comes to the letters extensions.

    [Which is better for capturing the signal from VHS tapes to a file than Canopus ADVC-300 in terms of the quality of the captured image (not looking only in terms TBC - let's assume it is good because I have the best external TBC - only for "general" quality[among others, TBC affects this.] of picture) ? Is something for USB connection better than Canopus ADVC-300(DV connection) ? I know about ATI 600 USB but is hard to get it.]
    The Canopus is expensive and DV. DV is fine for PAL, 4:2:0, but the problem here is the 3000 filters that never turn off. It's just a bad devices anywhere. The ADVC-100/110 would have been passable for PAL. However, getting off DV altogether is more ideal, capture lossless 4:2:2. In terms of cards being hard to find, I have extras available.
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  12. Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    The Canopus is expensive and DV. DV is fine for PAL, 4:2:0, but the problem here is the 3000 filters that never turn off. It's just a bad devices anywhere. The ADVC-100/110 would have been passable for PAL. However, getting off DV altogether is more ideal, capture lossless 4:2:2. In terms of cards being hard to find, I have extras available.
    It seems to me that by using Picture Controller 300 via PC for ADVC-300 control you can turn off all filters. I might be wrong.
    I have such questions related to this: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news/9868-image-subsamplingchroma-subsampling.html
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  13. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
    A frame sync is not a frame sync TBC. So a DataVideo TBC-1000 isn't at all the same as DVD recorder.
    C'mon LS. After all these years, there must be something that we can agree on.

    From the hardware (schematic) point of view, they are functionally identical with two exceptions;

    1) The TBC-1000 blanks out the copy protection lines at its output. I don't know how they get away with this. The DVD Recorder manufacturers are bound to obey the copy protection laws. If CP is a problem, then the choice is clear.

    2) TBC - TimeBase Correction performance. Both devices are attempting to stabilize the input signal. Each specific input processing IC has its own strengths ands weaknesses, advantages and disadvantages. In some conditions, they can even make things worse.

    The first device that digitizes the analog video input will determine the TBC performance of the capture.

    Any disagreement(s) old pal?
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  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Yep, we're always so close on agreement...

    I actually have TBC diagrams (not public documents), but I don't recall what all was written. I'll have to look sometime.

    "Copy protection" is just an artificial video error, and false positives happen. Those false positives are an unacceptable and unnecessary problem for professional use. Companies like Macrovisino may have sway over consumer products, but not pro gear, especially since Macrovision was dwarfed by the pro companies.

    Frame sync simply stores the frame, warts and all, no correction. In digital terms, it's only there to fend off dropped frames. But inserted/dropped frames is still a potential issue, as the incoming signal is dirty, uncorrected. DVD recorders are the only modern item to have these, and are almost always for input only (not output, therefore no passthrough). Stuff like this is also why some workflows insert frames, even when using the TBC(ish) ES10/15, interplay between workflow devices (capture card, VCR, etc). Not all framesyncs are made equal.

    TBCs correct the images/signal -- be it line, field, or frame -- but frames can still be lost. This is obvious on S-VHS VCRs with line/field TBCs, or even SVHS/Hi8 cameras, as those can and do drop frames.

    - Line (or field, aka multi-line) TBCs are more concerned with intraframe errors, most correcting the image. Some signal correction as a byproduct.
    - Frame TBCs concentrate on interframe errors, whole frame corrections. Some image correction as a byproduct. Lots of rackmount/broadcast TBCs are just TBCs, and unsuitable for VHS sources.

    Frame sync TBCs, essentially all modern (90s/00s) prosumer external TBCs, correct signal timing, as well as store the full frame(s) in a buffer. So it not only corrects, but maintains a steady flow of data at the proper fps output speed.

    Anyway ...

    It's not really that we disagree, as nothing you've said (in that last post) was necessarily wrong. Just incomplete.

    Remember: This is a thread about VCRs, and line TBCs. So some of this topic is meandering a bit.
    Last edited by lordsmurf; 19th Jul 2019 at 13:26. Reason: typos
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  15. mr. Eric-jan's Avatar
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    The ES35V has no TBC, it's nowhere mentioned, (and i didn't mention that) it's even not a SuperVHS recorder, but it does have a s-video in and output, it does have a DV input,
    It just works for me, (With the Intensity Shuttle) for me it has good results, i'm no pro. maybe that's an advantage just my luck, as i read now that most pro TBC's are not VHS "suitable" but i still do not understand why i have these "good" results .... i guess most other (not so pro) people would also happy with it.
    "Trash in trash out" is also something..... yes, lots of VHS recordings are not perfect to start with.... so what's a perfect capture....
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  16. OK, I've read some of this thread and about 4 others to the point where I now have a headache. lol

    My biggest problem is that there are so many different opinions and each company that made good VCRs have some models that were really good due to built in TBC and others that didn't...

    I just wanted to know if there's a reasonably good VCR with full frame TBC for around $300 USD, or if not, one with line TBC?

    I should ask if there's any difference between the ES-10 and the ES-15 that I would care about? Edit: Since many on ebay say no remote, I'd better ask if that matters for pass-through or not.

    I guess I should also ask what is currently a good capture card to get for SD tape capture? NTSC BTW.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Darkmatter; 25th Aug 2021 at 10:53. Reason: I forget things.
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  17. Originally Posted by Darkmatter View Post
    I just wanted to know if there's a reasonably good VCR with full frame TBC for around $300 USD, or if not, one with line TBC?
    In a nutshell, nope: prices for VCRs with built-in TBC shot thru the roof years ago, with no sign of ever coming down. Very very few bargains out there: most of what I've seen under $250 will need another $250 or more for servicing before they'll even work. You can get lucky with the occasional exception (JVC semipro DVD/DVHS combo models, the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U) that sell closer to $300 in good condition, but generally speaking you should assume anything priced under $300 has problems (and those problems will not be cheap to fix). Be wary of the confusing "TBC" terms: they are separate devices with different functions (think of line TBC as cosmetic surgeon for the video signal, and frame TBC as the cardiologist).

    Frame TBC corrects underlying defects in the signal that aren't necessarily visible to human eyes, but can cause downstream technical problems with digital capture systems (loss of audio lip sync, missing frames of video, etc). Frame TBC is typically a separate external box that can be connected to any VCR, tho there were some large professional VCRs with built-in frame TBC. The majority of these are beat to death and very difficult to get repaired today (few techs will touch them).

    The built-in frame TBC is nice to have, because if working well it lets you avoid the expense and hassle of an external frame TBC box like DataVideo. But there are tradeoffs: in exchange for the frame TBC they lack line TBC, plus you get a huge clunky VCR that can only play SP tapes (no EP or LP) with no remote control. And they can be hard to shop for unless you're really on the ball and know exactly what to look for (many are just too old to be worth it, while the most desirable newer models are plagued with intractable electronics defects).

    Line TBC corrects video issues obvious to the human eye: when switched on you'll immediately notice tearing and vertical distortion straightened up, cleaner colors, less picture noise. Line TBC is most commonly available only as a combined feature with DNR (digital noise reduction) built into higher-end consumer JVC vcrs, the Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U DVHS, and the Panasonic AG-1980 prosumer VCR. There were some exotic professional rack-mount external line TBCs, but it is far more practical to just buy a VCR with the feature built in. Unlike external frame TBCs, external line TBCs tend to require complicated connections and additional hardware beyond the scope (and wallet) of non-pro users. DVD recorders like ES-15 used as passthru devices apply aspects of both line and frame TBC correction, but aren't an exact substitute for either (they're more of a supplement, or alternative for certain issues).

    For general purpose VHS capture you need to look at the various recommended JVC SVHS models with line TBC+DNR, the Mitsubishi HS-HD200U DVHS, or (heaven help you) the Panasonic AG-1980. As mentioned, some dvd recorder pass thrus like ES-15 provide a semblance of line TBC, frame TBC and DNR capability when paired with a good "ordinary" non-TBC SVHS like Mitsubishi HS-U748 or JVC 5910, but this isn't as effective or clean as the circuits built into the recommended premium VCRs. You add the frame TBC function to line-TBC VCRs with an external frame TBC box like DataVideo TBC-1000 (or a compromise "frame sync" device like a dvd recorder pass thru).

    I should ask if there's any difference between the ES-10 and the ES-15 that I would care about? Edit: Since many on ebay say no remote, I'd better ask if that matters for pass-through or not.
    The ES-10 is the stronger of the two at correcting severe visual distortions. It is the most-discussed model, so the easiest to resell when you're done with it. The ES-15 is nearly as good unless your tapes are absolutely terrible, and might be available cheaper in some areas. Yes, you'll need the remote to make some settings crucial to optimizing pass-thru performance. Used remotes are not expensive, and you don't necessarily need the exact remote the recorder came with (just a Panasonic dvd recorder remote that will get you into the settings menu).
    Last edited by orsetto; 25th Aug 2021 at 14:07.
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    So, question:

    I own a Panasonic AG1980P. It probably needs some servicing, as it has been in storage for a couple of years. My question is: should I get it serviced (and if so, by who?) or should I invest in a different VCR? I know that the AG1980P can be a bit finicky, so I don't want to invest money into it if I'm going to need to keep getting it repaired and there are more reliable options out there. Any help would be appreciated!
    Last edited by FromPartsUnknown; 2nd Aug 2022 at 17:37.
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  19. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Getting it repaired by a reputable member like Deter would cost you around $700 give or take including shipping both ways within the lower 48 states, If you can find one in a good working condition for less than $1000 go for it, and then just sell yours as "for parts" to recoup some of your money to hopefully get in the $700 mark.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    Getting it repaired by a reputable member like Deter would cost you around $700 give or take including shipping both ways within the lower 48 states, If you can find one in a good working condition for less than $1000 go for it, and then just sell yours as "for parts" to recoup some of your money to hopefully get in the $700 mark.
    Wouldn't it make sense to repair the one that I have instead of buying one that will need to be repaired eventually anyway? I'm just looking to spend my money wisely on what will be the best long term option.
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  21. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    I didn't say buying any VCR, I said in good working condition which means from a reputable place not eBay, We know what "fully restored" in eBay's terms, it means fully wiped clean from the outside. Either way it is not going to be cheap, You may want to look into getting the tapes transferred by a trustworthy service if you intend to do this one time only, This task is getting too costly and too complicated for a lot of folks who want quality transfers.
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    An odd thing about the Pan ES-10 / ES-15: they were in my eBay auction tracking list for a number of years, but over 90% of the "hits" turned out to serve up something else that was irrelevant. This led me to conclude that these units were scarce, but maybe I was just not going about this correctly. My (questionable) recollection was also that these units and the Toshibas were not so highly recommended -- particularly in comparison to the better Pioneer models -- on a longevity or a reliability basis, apart from any performance issues.

    @dellsam34,
    jwillis84 recently alluded to some professional servicing of these units, not sure if that reference was specifically to Deter. I bought my 1980 from Southern Advantage, which refurbished these units for many years but may not still be in business. (?) Mine has barely had any use since I bought it several years ago, but orsetto has mentioned that these things deteriorate on their own just sitting around . . . so I'm apprehensive as to what I'll find when I fire it up again. But the option to use it has been overdue for a revisit.

    The pro services I'm aware of, such as the ones you'll see ads for, will balk at touching any copyrighted material -- which may include any that you've recorded yourself off-air. (?) I've run afoul of this issue personally, which I why I opted for the DIY approach years ago, and began acquiring just about ever copy-protection-evading gizmo that came to my attention. (Notable exception, the Grex: never got one of those.)

    I continue to see auctions for Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U DVHS: even with occasional leftover stock / open box descriptions, and occasionally with what look like semi-reasonable prices.

    I have bought replacement remotes on eBay, in good to very good condition. Also have a couple online shops bookmarked that specialize in all sorts of remotes. Most of the time there is a good chance of finding either original models, or compatible successors. The pricing will vary though.
    Last edited by Seeker47; 4th Aug 2022 at 10:59.
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    Its not impossible to find good working ones.

    It takes a lot of patience, and committing to deal with the chance you could loose your money.

    I have bought bad deals, and it feels bad.. and haunts me.

    But life is full of disappointments.. you have to get over it and move on.

    I do find that power supply electrolytic capacitors do have to be replaced, and surface mounted caps do go bad.

    It seems the longer something has set up, with no power on, the more likely the caps are to leak. So I regularly plug the good ones in and exercise them about every six months.

    As for Toshibas, same.. caps do go bad.. but the damage seems worse if they are left off for years. Recently used, or lightly used ones that have been powered up and then put away seem to be in the best shape. Especially if they were only recently put away and go up from an estate sale, or a business change over.

    I don't know of any good shops for repairing things other than getting an appointment with Tgrant, and that can be time consuming, he is often booked up. Tgrant is specializing in servicing only certain vcrs he can get parts for.. and so is Mr.Betamax.. if you use servicing, be prepared to pay for it and get over the cost.. there are few other options.

    i tend to think you need to go through a lot of vcrs from a lot of places to find a few good ones and hang on to them and use them while you can.

    i would like to reduce the number of vcrs that i have.. but replacing them isn't much of an option if I need them later.

    i wish more places rented good legacy gear and took care of the servicing as part of their rental business.
    Last edited by jwillis84; 4th Aug 2022 at 05:43.
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  24. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post

    I don't know of any good shops for repairing things other than getting an appointment with Tgrant, and that can be time consuming, he is often booked up. Tgrant is specializing in servicing only certain vcrs he can get parts for.. and so is Mr.Betamax.. if you use servicing, be prepared to pay for it and get over the cost.. there are few other options.

    i tend to think you need to go through a lot of vcrs from a lot of places to find a few good ones and hang on to them and use them while you can.

    i would like to reduce the number of vcrs that i have.. but replacing them isn't much of an option if I need them later.
    It is beneficial for us to share any good info that we may have. In regard to Beta: Is Mr. Betamax the one that was in Maryland ? If so, that may be the one from whose website (still up) I downloaded some useful pix and instructional material. However (again, if that's the firm I had in mind), I was told that they stopped responding to customer contacts some time ago -- which could not be a good sign. There used to be a guy in N. Calif. by the name of Andy Sanchez, who did well-regarded restorations on Sony Beta decks, but the trail for finding him went cold quite a few years ago. I think it may have been orsetto who told me of a Beta repair outfit in NYC. I'll see if I can find a record of it in my notes. They were said to have been booked up for work a couple months ahead. This was I think all slightly pre-pandemic. Many businesses did not weather that time, so that will also need to be checked. More recently, I've noticed a "Doctor Sony" on eBay, a self-described "master repairs" guy, who refurbishes certain Sony decks. FWIW, he seems to have amassed a sterling feedback record over several years, and may also have published some diagnostically inclined instructional materials. Of course -- as you noted -- no such option is going to be anything but fairly expensive.
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  25. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I've not posted here in a while...

    Originally Posted by Darkmatter View Post
    My biggest problem is that there are so many different opinions
    You must understand that opinions can be wrong. Why? When an opinion is based on bad/wrong information, it's a wrong opinion. So there's a lot of BS online, often from the same sort of gullible lemmings that think the earth is flat, moon landing was fake, 9/11 was a hoax, COVID is a cold/flu, etc. Nonsense. So be wary of this.

    I just wanted to know if there's a reasonably good VCR with full frame TBC
    None exists. VCR had line TBCs included, not frame.

    for around $300 USD, or if not, one with line TBC?
    That's now the "for parts' (not working) price range, not the "in good working order, ready to use" range. Or the gambling range (eBay "tested" = they put in a ratty old copy of Home Alone, and saw some sort of image, good or not. And "working" means they saw led lights when plugged in.) For a quality working deck, at minimum, double the budget.

    I should ask if there's any difference between the ES-10 and the ES-15 that I would care about? Edit: Since many on ebay say no remote, I'd better ask if that matters for pass-through or not.
    ES10 is slightly stronger.

    But ES10/15 (and few others) is a DVD recorder, not a TBC. It has strong+crippled line TBC inside, with non-TBC frame sync, and various harmful side effects. You will lessen quality, it's not transparent. There will be a fail rate trying to use it for conversion passthrough. This is a feature I discovered long ago (back when it was still not widely released in 2005, when I was actively testing DVD recorders, and discussed the feature online), and for 15+ years now have considered it nothing more than a strong line TBC for tearing correction (usually nth gen issues). Some years ago, people tried to use it as a "TBC replacement", with wildly varying results (never flawlessly). It can work quite decently, with a narrow source type, when paired with other gear like DVK to make a TBC(ish), assuming can live with the quality reductions on the transfers. It's a tradeoff between quality and (not really) cheap.

    This is stuff I've discussed far more in depth over at www.digitalFAQ.com/forum for years now.

    Originally Posted by FromPartsUnknown View Post
    I own a Panasonic AG1980P.... so I don't want to invest money into it if I'm going to need to keep getting it repaired and there are more reliable options out there. Any help would be appreciated!
    Fixing the AG-1980 (including shipping both ways) will cost as much as suggested JVC deck. So it really depends on why you have the 1980, why you need it. I've now gotten to a point where I hate 1980 decks, those are nothing but money pits. It's now a situation where all non-refurb'd decks are bad, and will be costly to replace all caps, fully service.

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    GIf you can find one in a good working condition for less than $1000 go for it,
    Unlikely.

    Originally Posted by FromPartsUnknown View Post
    what will be the best long term option.
    Long-term = best EOL JVC deck.

    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    a reputable place not eBay, We know what "fully restored" in eBay's terms, it means fully wiped clean from the outside.
    Yep.

    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    An odd thing about the Pan ES-10 / ES-15: they were in my eBay auction tracking list for a number of years, but over 90% of the "hits" turned out to serve up something else that was irrelevant. This led me to conclude that these units were scarce, but maybe I was just not going about this correctly.
    eBay "hits" are extremely imprecise, especially in Europe. Even when you longtail put key words, you'll return results for random car parts, bar bells, etc.

    My (questionable) recollection was also that these units and the Toshibas were not so highly recommended -- particularly in comparison to the better Pioneer models -- on a longevity or a reliability basis, apart from any performance issues.
    Remember, these were consumer items (Ma/Pa Kettle, Joe Sixpack, etc). And we live in a disposable world. So bad caps caused most Panasonic ES10 to be trashed, and and HDD caused my Toshiba to be trashed. So certain models are scarce. Sad, because new HDD was the fix, and few ES10 caps replaced was the fix.

    Mine has barely had any use since I bought it several years ago, but orsetto has mentioned that these things deteriorate on their own just sitting around
    Correct. And it sucks.

    (Notable exception, the Grex: never got one of those.)
    Another POS device, big promises, no follow-through.

    I have bought replacement remotes on eBay, in good to very good condition.
    Those are generally safe, unlike TBCs/VCRs.
    Tip: ONLY buy when you see exact item, and ONLY buy when you see the inside of the battery compartment is clean and unstained.
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    If it isn't already, this is certainly one of those threads well worthy of "Sticky-fication": the passage of time be damned, but people will continue to have questions on this subject, so it's great that the thread remains up.
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    Southern Advantage may or may not be still in business I have noticed an uptick in S.A. sales on eBay.

    A beta EDV i just got came from Northern California from an estate sale.. its in pretty good condition and the seller told me he as taking care of some things for a friend. Its a rare enough item I would think they were closing up shop.

    Sad to hear about MrBetamax.. I had thought to contact them about a general once over for maintenance. I really had little interest in Beta until it cross my mind in passing and things just sort of fell into place. at least this will let me keep dealing with s-video and none of those pesky comb filters that seem to plague so many people trying to "unconvert" what came off the tape (vhs or beta) as color under Y/C video anyways.

    The Pandemic really wrecked a lot of things and hurt a lot of people and businesses.

    I believe the YouTube repair guy in Vancouver B.C. 12voltvids was a former trained SONY repair guy. He does great vids but seems to get tired of vcr repairs, and I don't think he runs a formal business. The Zoning laws up there seem to discourage people from running repair shops from their homes and the cities in BC are hemmed by Mountains.. so they are very strict. can't speak for him.. he seems to do it more for curiosity and fun than a full time job. He has a very nice video show format, very consistent, and seems very earnest in trying to teach and pass on his knowledge. But the guy keeps getting knocked down and discouraged by YouTube, trolls and a general lack of understanding in basic shipping skills from his clients.

    There is a distinct lack of mentorship.. or will to pass on skill sets.. or optimism that any of this hardware or methods will be needed, or appreciated in the next ten years or so. Only major forum stars like Orsetto/Citibear or LordSmurf come around with any true consistency.. the old Legends are mostly silent now.

    The newbies seems to waffle between "figuring things out" and trolling the trolls.. so I'm not sure how long I'll still be around.

    I admire the 12voltvid guy with the YouTube channel.. I've recently started visiting the Vancouver BC area.. and the general population with family roots there are very good people. They think a lot of their families and care about passing on their knowledge, be it to their kids or young newbie stand ins for their kids. It reminds me of how the world was in the 1970's when I was growing up. I have not been to Norway or Belgium but have met a few people from there who are like minded.. they want to share contribute.. they have far thicker skin than I have.
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    I like 12voltvids videos, especially the video that explained the TBC functionality using a video mixer and a studio monitor, I've also learned a lot of tricks from his VCR repair series to repair/maintain my own VCRs, His workbench could be little cleaner and organized but hey that's his personal life. For Beta I like to watch MrBetaByte, and the Betamax Man Youtube channels.

    There is a Korean/Taiwanese guy on Youtube but the only problem is it is not in English, He does mostly high end machines, he has all the tools and does it by the book.
    Last edited by dellsam34; 9th Aug 2022 at 12:08. Reason: Added links
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    Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
    Southern Advantage may or may not be still in business I have noticed an uptick in S.A. sales on eBay.

    The Pandemic really wrecked a lot of things and hurt a lot of people and businesses.
    . . .

    The newbies seems to waffle between "figuring things out" and trolling the trolls.. so I'm not sure how long I'll still be around.
    Well, I most emphatically hope that you do manage to stick around, as your contributions have been of major value ! That work you did with Peter of IsoBuster was simply EPIC !

    [Maybe it's just some innate knack, but I usually seem to be able to ignore the trolls, wherever they may pop up. They are far from being worth getting riled up over.]

    Particular knowledge and skill sets vanishing into history extends well beyond this example, unfortunately.

    If anyone has more recent commentary on that NYC Beta shop, or Doctor Sony over on ePay, please post your updates here, and if I find out anything along those lines I'll do likewise.
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    I like 12voltvids videos, especially the video that explained the TBC functionality using a video mixer and a studio monitor, I've also learned a lot of tricks from his VCR repair series to repair/maintain my own VCRs, His workbench could be little cleaner and organized but hey that's his personal life. For Beta I like to watch MrBetaByte, and the Betamax Man Youtube channels.

    There is a Korean/Taiwanese guy on Youtube but the only problem is it is not in English, He does mostly high end machines, he has all the tools and does it by the book.
    I've learned how to watch a lot of Korean and Japanese youtube videos by turning on automatic close captioning and then select settings and auto-translate into English (they have most other languages too including glyph languages). Its a messy two-step precedure, and you have to do everytime for each video.. it can't be saved as a default. But the bots work in your favor for once, the autocaptioning takes a while to occur on fresh new videos but after a few hours or days its available, then the translate bot for your language takes its variable amount of time depending on how common that language is used in the world. I think English and German are done quickest. Denmark, Sweden and Norway I (think?) are mostly compatible or 'know how' to read German.. but i could be culturally inept at explaining if they would rather wait for native translation.. no offense.. no favoritism from me.

    This makes a lot of highly technical foreign language content highly accessible to a mono-lingual speaker and reader like myself.

    Japan has a deep technical corpus of knowledge that is mostly taken for granted by their current generation or ignored, their recent ancestors left them quite a legacy from 2002 to 2009 online and Google YouTube has saved a lot of it.. but the algorithm gives and takes content.. so watch it while you can.

    Korea is my new curiosity, they seem innately adept at old and new audio visual tech.. but also almost oblivious to how well they handle it.. their video technical content is great, but far less mentoring.. their goals were not to teach and pass on.. but to do and move on.

    Japan has a subculture that kind of skirts or ignores the rules established by governments.. so often things like rights management are lost on this subculture unless the product is brought mainstream and shipped over seas.. so a lot of their gear is a lot more effortless to use and just works.

    But they have to honor export rules and often buying and shipping overseas gets stopped. There is a "ton" of Japanese gear that has made it to the US and Midwest.. but because some of it has Kanji characters on the controls or in some menus by default.. people tend to avoid it at first glance.

    Japan is kind of getting wise to this however, catering to videophiles on eBay listings.. they aren't lowering their prices and don't want customers that don't know what they are buying.. so its a frothy market. - I would not recommend diving head first into Japan stuff, first its way too expensive.. but its fascinating to watch the prices things sell for.
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