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  1. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by samijubal

    All the people that rave about upconverting players must have TVs with poor upconversion.
    Most bought early cheaper HDTV sets. In those cases the recent DVD player upconverters are probably better. For recent mid level HDTV chipsets, the TV may have the advantage when fed 480p or 480i from the player.
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  2. EXACTLY -

    My TV HAS got poor upconversion as its a cheapo BUSH 32" from 1 year ago and its crap.... so YES there is a purpose for upscalers...

    ALSO ive seen quite a few people say (when ive been reading reviews of upscaling DVD players to buy) that the pic quality was MUCH better than previously with SCART and letting the TV do the upscaling and most of them had Panasonics and Sony etc etc so IMO upscaling DVD players make the picture better overall as its creating a slightly better quality image for the TV to re-scale to 768p (for 720p output and 768p TVs) so even when upscaling to 720p you r TV STILL has to rescale the image to 768p but the image it gets from the DVD player is slightly better (upscaled to 720p and through HDMI (constant digital signal)) than through a SCART at 576p (which has to get converted to analogue in the DVD player then sent to TV and the TV has to convert to digital - this reduces picture quality)

    only a DVD player that is upscaling to 1080p on a 1080p TV is where you see the DVD players quality ONLY as the TV doesnt have to manipulate the picture at all....

    I would definatley recommend a budget upscaling DVD player until Blu-Ray prices drop...
    there may be a few HDTV's that will create a picture just as good as an upscaling DVD player but ONLY if the player is connected by HDMI... SCART definatley reduces quality...
    Before I got HDMI DVD Player I used SCART then moved onto the yellow Video cable, component is it? and the quality was much better, less grain on the picture it was much smoother
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  3. Maybe with generic TVs you need an upconverting player. For me, it was a total waste of $80. There's no difference in picture quality.
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  4. Originally Posted by snadge
    only a DVD player that is upscaling to 1080p on a 1080p TV is where you see the DVD players quality ONLY as the TV doesnt have to manipulate the picture at all....
    Acutally, most 1080p HDTVs will upscale the image to roughly 2036x1144 and crop off the edges leaving 1920x1080 to simulate overscan. You need a HDTV with pixel-for-pixel mapping to leave the 1920x1080 frame untouched.
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  5. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Interesting that high end DVD players are making a feature point of 480i/576i support over HDMI. This is to allow a premium HDTV set to handle the IVTC, deinterlace and upscale processing from an all digital feed thus avoiding the repeat scaling.

    oppo example
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  6. I didn't try using 480i, only 720p and 1080i. I never even thought about 480i. With my SD DVD player over component, it makes no difference wheather it's 480i or 480p.
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  7. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by samijubal
    I didn't try using 480i, only 720p and 1080i. I never even thought about 480i. With my SD DVD player over component, it makes no difference wheather it's 480i or 480p.
    It may not make much difference for PAL or progressive NTSC DVD (movie DVD) but 480i vs 480p is important for processing 480i TV captures (e.g. from DVD recorders or computer capture cards).

    480p setting forces the DVD player to do the inverse telecine or deinterlace of 480i source. 720p or 1080p setting does too.

    480i setting passes inverse telecine or deinterlace of 480i source to the HDTV for processing. If the source is progressive 23.976, the 480i setting forces the DVD player to add pulldown (telecine) to 29.97. Then the HDTV inverse telecines that back to 23.976 progressive and upscales.

    If the DVD player is set to 1080i, a 480i source is upscaled and passed as 1080i. Upscale methods vary from poor to very good. Progressive 23.976 gets telecined to 29.97 and then upscaled to 1080i. Then the HDTV inverse telecines and scales to display native resolution.

    In all cases progressive 23.976 fps gets frame repeated in the TV* 3 then 2 to 59.94 fps for display or on the newer sets gets repeated or interpolated 5x to ~120 fps for display.


    * for 480p setting, the 3 then 2 repeat to 59.94 fps happens in the DVD player.
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  8. I might have to get the Toshiba out and try 480i. Since I have no interest in HD-DVDs, and the upconversion didn't work, I boxed it back up to sell. Most of what I have is 7 years of DVD recordings. Recordings or retail, I don't see a difference between 480i and 480p using component and an SD DVD player. I think my Panasonic plasma has a pretty good scaler. Plasmas aren't very sharp. Maybe it would be different with an LCD.
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  9. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Bottom line, 480i tosses all the processing to the HDTV*. 480p/720p/1080p forces the DVD player to do the heavy work. With 1080i, both are working.

    *480i over HDMI is similar to having the DVD player inside the HDTV with a direct digital read from the DVD disc.
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  10. The Toshiba would have to be considerably better with it's slow, clunky operation. I'd also have to give up my DVD player picture settings I've grown accustomed to. I do like the black level setting on the Toshiba.
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  11. Originally Posted by edDV
    Interesting that high end DVD players are making a feature point of 480i/576i support over HDMI. This is to allow a premium HDTV set to handle the IVTC, deinterlace and upscale processing from an all digital feed thus avoiding the repeat scaling.
    It's also because some high-end video enthusiasts prefer to have an external dedicated video processor like an iScan or Gefen do the deinterlacing/IVTC and scaling, before the signal then gets sent on to the TV.
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