Camera recommendations

[kippard]

I'm going to shoot an zero-budget feature. Looking for the best bang for the buck. Obviously, I want a film look and want to be able to shoot 16:9 (or suggest a post option). 24P? PAL DV maybe? If I could spend less than $1,500, great. If I could spend less than $1,000, even better.

[zoobie]

yep...some guy just won an oscar shooting 24 pal with 2 camcorders in the Indy film "Once"
it was unclear whether it was transferred to film then back again to video (dvd) for the academy members to view

[kippard]

Wasn't it 25 fps PAL? I think the PAL DVX100 actually shoots 25 fps and does not have a 24P mode.

[Soopafresh]

The Canon HV20 will do 24P on the NTSC or 25P on the PAL model. They're on sale because the HV30 comes out in March. Get a Steadicam as well if you want to look professional. http://www.b-hague.co.uk/Camcorder%20Stabilizer%20HCS3.htm

You're not going to have shallow DOF unless you spend some $. There's the Brevis 35 and the Letus 35 mm adapter, which give really beautiful results - check out the video on the front page http://www.letusdirect.com/

Otherwise, get an inexpensive Cinematic color presets package like the $50 film magic pro http://www.videocopilot.net/fmp.html

[kippard]

Great demo on the steadicam site. Do you like HDV better than PAL, if I can get a
PAL Sony VX2100E (3 chip) camcorder for under $1,000?

[Soopafresh]

You live in the US, right? 24P will be easier to work with. Sony VX2100E looks like it is in the $2200 range. I wouldn't trust those <$1000 places.

HV20 - Rainy Day Cinematography

http://www.vimeo.com/431500/

[kippard]

Looks nice. I wish it didn't look like such a consumer model. I know it sounds irrelevant, but my actors will not be inspired by it. I did find a PAL Sony VX2100E here in the US for under $1,000. What do you think? I can still capture and edit the stuff, right? My PC doesn't care if it's PAL, just my TV sets, right? THANK YOU!

[Soopafresh]

They'll laugh until you show them the rough cuts. Then, they'll flip out and want one themselves. Get yourself one of those rectangular lens hoods if you want the bling.

http://www.fotodiox.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=569&osCsid=2231f7d95bc3e7ecf...4856d104fc6a91


The HV30 looks more "pro", plus it'll do 30p .

http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/17830/canon-hv30/

Plus, tons of advice and support on the excellent Http://www.hv20.com website


I really wouldn't trust the "lowpricedigital" dot com type sites for the Sony. That price is less than it costs to manufacture.

[kippard]

Sorry to beat this one into the ground: regardless of cost, if you could shoot your film on a VX2100E or an HV20, which would you choose? Excellent helps. Thanks!

[Soopafresh]

Unfair question, because you do have a budget. The camera is only the beginning. You'll need a really good microphone and boom, lights, extra batteries, etc. You'll also need a heavier steadicam with the VX2100, like the
$800 Steadicam Merlin (fantastic, but pricey)


I think you're gonna be very sad if you try to buy a <$1000 VX2100 . Here's an example - VX2100 - $999 from razzph0t0.com . Now when you do a google search on the site

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&chann...=Google+Search

[edDV]

I have both a HV20 and Sony NTSC PD-150 (pro version of the VX-2000) so I can help guide you.

First give us a rough idea of the scenes and your lighting strategy.

What software do you have without spending more?

Have you edited HDV or 24p before?

How do you intend to release? Certainly not film as the only option.

The PAL VX2100 won't do progressive. You would have 720x576i 25fps PAL. That isn't easy to convert to NTSC DVD.

The NTSC VX2000/2100 shoots 720x480i at 29.97fps 16:9 or 4:3 DV format

The HV20 shoots the following
- 720x480i at 29.97fps 16:9 or 4:3 DV format
- 1440x1080i at 29.97fps 16:9 HDV format
- 1440x1080p at 23.976fps 16:9 in a somewhat strange telecine pattern that requires some geek work to decode.
<< thread link to be posed here when I find it >>
General overview thread https://forum.videohelp.com/topic344834.html
Canon HV20 24F issues https://forum.videohelp.com/topic345452.html


There are tradeoffs depending on what you plan to do. I'll not pre bias your plan.

[kippard]

I'll edit on Premiere Pro 1.5 or (still learning) Vegas 8. I want to submit to festivals. Best hope: some festival win will open doors to a next level production. Can't imagine it, but love to get STV distribution. Many outdoor scenes, shooting in the spring. Interiors, as well. I have light kits and can do three point lighting (although just reading about Once, which shot with no lighting). Never edited 24P nor HDV. I have a DV suite, of sorts (PC w/ video only drive, 1.29 GHz 512 DDR (could add more)). PAL VX2100 won't do progressive? I thought PAL was progressive. THANK YOU edDV and Soopafresh!

[edDV]

You need to think about shooting straight NTSC DV format vs all the hurdles needed for PAL or 24p. DV is easy to edit and process.

The idea for PAL is to deinterlace to 25p and then slow it down 4% to 23.976 so you can author a progressive NTSC DVD. This presents a number of issues for deinterlace and sound sync. Research others success doing this. I think shooting PAL was just a San Francisco fad back before true 24p cameras came on the scene.

The AG-DVX-100b was made for 24PA and is supported by Premiere Pro 2up and Vegas (since v4). See the Adam Wilt overview for all the 24PA issues. These are available used in the $1500-2200 range but they require heavy tripods or steadycam plus 24p pan/zoom technique. All this is taught in basic film school.

The HV20 is a lower cost entry into 24p but requires a workflow design to get to 24p frames on the Premiere timeline. The camera has a strong following and issues are well discussed in the forums.

The VX-2100 (NTSC DV) along with the big brother PD-170 is the best route for the beginner. It does well for no-nonsense handheld or tripod use. It does best in low or odd uncontrolled street light. The "knee" keeps sky and street lights under control. It is the default budget cam for news and magazine formats. If you are doing a dark Robert Rodriguez style, this is your cam. It has all the manual adjustments you will need. It just won't be high def. and it won't be progressive.

If you need HD, the HV20 is an incredible bargain. It has the exposure basics and manual audio control. If you need pretty HD scenery in good light, this cam is very good. It won't do as well indoors as the VX-2100. It does better in low light in 24p mode but at the tradeoff of motion issues. The next best HD cam is >$3000.

[kippard]

Great stuff to research and consider edDV. I can't believe there is not a software solution for precise and simple PAL conversions. Thank you!

What do you think of the HVR-Z1U? I may be able to borrow one (and that is cheap). No 24P. No 720p. Bad?

[zoobie]

probably 25 fps
the point was it attracted producers and directors (even Speilberg) to the movie which got the original song noticed (Falling Slowly)

My Hi8 got more attention than my HC5...thankfully. There's nothing more annoying than people asking a bunch of questions during a shoot. I sometimes borrow my public access' pd-150/170's but, again, they get too much attention.

Soop's right...once they see HD on the side, they trip over themselves trying to get a clip. Mine's so small, it rarely gets attention...just another handi-cam...perfect.

[Soopafresh]

Check out this clip - HV20 with the Letus Mini adapter ($1100). Looks quite filmic

http://downloads.letusdirect.com/video/#id=album-4&num=1


This one is spectacular - XDCAM HD EX1 (a $7000 Camera, but wow, nice!)

http://downloads.letusdirect.com/video/#id=album-1&num=1

[kippard]

Real nice. I wish I could get Philip Bloom to come and shoot my film. Any thoughts on the Z1U? I may have access to one, seems strong but not sure about getting the film look...