DVD Recorder and HBO programming

[brownsuga2go]

I'm looking for a reasonably priced ($100 - $200), DVD Recorder that will record HBO programming. I recently purchased a Philips DVDR 3475/37 that would not record HBO shows citing copyright protected programming so I'm taking it back and looking for one that actually will do what I need. Any one no of one that will?

[PhoneMatt]

I have a Panasonic ES-15 and have never had a problem recording from HBO, Showtime, or any other premium channel. From comments on here, I seem to remember that HBO On Demand is not recordable. Are you trying to record On Demand or regular programming?

[jman98]

Some DVD recorders are reported to honor broadcast flags that say "Don't record". HBO shows are infamous for this. Since I record to my PC I can't provide suggestions about DVD recorders, I just wanted to point out to PhoneMatt that others have reported this problem as well for regular HBO programming.

[jjeff]

If the ES-15 works for you, you should be able to pick one up quite cheaply, since they have the analog tuner. The Sams clubs near me have tons of them priced at $129 I think. I bought a couple for $99 at Ultimate electronics late last year.
Note I tend to think that if your Philips is not recording the HBO maybe the Panny might not either, but it's worth a try. Otherwise you will need to get one of the filters(like Grex or others) to remove the CP. I read quite a bit from people who cannot record from pay channels, mostly HBO. Good luck!

[PhoneMatt]

Sounds about right, jjeff. I think that I paid $109 for mine, at Best Buy. I use a satellite box, so the tuner didn't matter to me.
jman98, I know that some providers are passing the no copy flag, but it seems that a lot aren't. (I use Direct and they are not- at least not at this time. ) I guess it boils down to the provider.
Matt

[edDV]

Man O'man this gets complicated

[LCSHG]

brownsugar2go


I had both satellite providers, Dish Network and Direct. Both Did provide CP on those programs that were CP. It was a number of Cable companies that didn’t and were getting away with this.

Now that the format war is over and Sony can direct its attention and Command of this issue it will change very fast

I do not believe that any recorder made today will record a CP disk or CP on air program.

[pinetop]

I have comcast digital cable and a Sony GX7 recorder, I record both broadcast HBO and HBO ONDEMAND without a problem. My recorder is 3 yrs old, but you could try a current model and see if it works. A signal stabilizer might work as well.

[LCSHG]

A Quote
" A signal stabilizer might work as well."

Not for digital CP

[Rletson]

I wonder whethet the issue is the not the recorder but your cable provider. We can record anything (except some on-demand material) that comes through our set-top box on any of our machines, including our 3575. We've been time-shifting "The Wire" right along on three different recorders with no problems. Ask your cable company if they're setting the no-copy flag on your premium channels--I don't think that HBO requires them to do so, but I hear that some providers set that flag all over the place, and pretty much all modern units are required to respect it.

[pinetop]

A Quote
" A signal stabilizer might work as well."

Not for digital CP

Heres a link with people using a stabilizer:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-893233.html

My buddy uses a Grex to record cp shows.

Heres their website claiming it works with cable or satelite:

http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html

[pinetop]

I emailed my buddy who uses a Grex, I asked him if he had cable or satelite. Heres his response:

"No problem. I have satellite. A tip for buying is to make sure whichever one you pick allows the decryption of TV signals. When I was searching for them I came across a lot of them that only specified that it would work for DVDs & VHS. That is what led me to the Grex. I don't have any experience with any stabilizer other than the Grex but I have never had any problems with the Grex in the year that I have used it."

[jjeff]

If you can find a Sima CT-2 that should also work for VHS, DVD and cable. Note I personally do not have cable, but have read from people who say it works. The manual says the device totally recreates the vertical interlace signal? and is supposed to work for all types of CP, now and in the future.
It almost sounds like a mini TBC which many people say is the best CP remover. Note Sima is no longer around, so they may be hard to find. When I bought mine a few years ago, both CC and BB stocked them on the shelf. Not now though. I paid around $100 new.

[orsetto]

So far I have not experienced a lockout on any cable signals from the line connections of my Time Warner Digital box in NYC feeding into my Pioneer DVD recorder. I record regular premium broadcasts and also the "on Demand" premium show reruns. I never use the "pay per view" section of "on demand", but I believe that is the most stringently enforced CP arena.

I can second the votes for the Sima CT-2 or CT-200, its an amazing little box. Unfortunately discontinued now and selling for upwards of $150 if you can find one, even second hand. Some have reported issues with color shift, etc, using these boxes but I have not noticed anything really objectionable, certainly no more than what happens when adding a pro TBC or any other device to the signal chain.

I think the reason the Sima is so effective is that it seems to be a reduced-function version of the AVT-8710 full-range TBC. They share a similar chassis design and probably come from the same factory. The Sima boxes are now sold under another name online, with a model number of 500, I can't remember the details but there are many threads about this. Alternately, the AVT-8710 TBC can sometimes be found used for under $200 as can the DataVideo TBC-1000, either should take care of any CP interference. The AVT-8710 is also available under a couple of other brand names, when you search a site try just searching the generic term "TBC" and see what comes up.
(I have not yet seen an overall consensus about the Grex boxes: for every good report I see a bad one, its been 50/50 now for as long as I've been following these threads. Given the price, I'd go for one of the other alternatives first.)

[Seeker47]

So far I have not experienced a lockout on any cable signals from the line connections of my Time Warner Digital box in NYC feeding into my Pioneer DVD recorder. I record regular premium broadcasts and also the "on Demand" premium show reruns. I never use the "pay per view" section of "on demand",

My recent post on this appears to have vanished, but my experience is much the same as yours -- also with Pioneers + TW cable or DirecTV at another location. No problems recording any of the premium channels.

I can second the votes for the Sima CT-2 or CT-200, its an amazing little box. Unfortunately discontinued now and selling for upwards of $150 if you can find one, even second hand. Some have reported issues with color shift, etc, using these boxes but I have not noticed anything really objectionable, certainly no more than what happens when adding a pro TBC or any other device to the signal chain.

As I've said before, I think the CT-200 (which was the more expensive of the two models) really blows. I can't see where it is useful for anything. If anyone wants to buy a used one from me, it probably wouldn't take much persuasion.

On the other hand, I think the TBC-1000 is the real McCoy.

[orsetto]

As I've said before, I think the CT-200 (which was the more expensive of the two models) really blows. I can't see where it is useful for anything. If anyone wants to buy a used one from me, it probably wouldn't take much persuasion.

On the other hand, I think the TBC-1000 is the real McCoy.

I had forgotten who really *hated* the Sima, thanks for weighing in to remind me!

The performance of all these "black boxes" is inconsistent: they never seem to work the same for any two members. Personally, I got lucky in the eBay lottery last year: I picked up a used Sima CT-200 for about $82 delivered and it has worked perfectly. I was desperate to back up a couple of really gnarly uber-protected 1940s classics from Fox, nothing would crack them at the time, not even PC software or pro Panasonic and For-A TBCs I borrowed! I'd heard about the Sima and thought I'd try it- and it worked! With no issues! I've yet to come across anything it won't handle.

BUT: like many "cult" items, it now sells for ridiculous prices thru private parties: you can come close to the cost of a full TBC for what people are asking for Sima boxes nowadays. And as seeker47 clearly stated, a significant number of these Simas "blow". No guarantees. No guarantees with the Grex, either, which from what I gather can be a nightmare to reset or adjust for different situations. If you are seriously concerned about CP spreading all over your cable or satellite service, you need a full TBC, preferably a modern, compact model like the AVT-8710 or TBC-1000. The prices on these keep going up, retail last year was $250 yet today stores are getting more like $450. They aren't going to get any cheaper, so now's the time to take the plunge. (Every now and then you can get a good buy on a used one if you're patient.) Avoid the big, older, pro rack mount TBCs: they can often be had for under $100 but they will only clear the CP from old VHS, they are useless with the newer cable/satellite broadcast CP.

[jjeff]

Again this is just my personal experience, but my CT-2, I have (2) of them, have never failed to make a backup copy of any of my DVD's to my DVDR's. I also picked up one for a relative and he's never had a problem.
Note I did have a older Sima product that only removed CP from VHS tapes, but the CP-2 has done everything I've asked it to.
Also note they all slightly brighten the video, which I really only notice if trying to copy the THX test patterns with a perfectly black backround. They have a switch to darken the video, but it darkens it too much. I leave it on the standard position 100% of the time.
I've never used the Grex or any other CP removing device other than the Sima's to compare there quality.

[Seeker47]

The performance of all these "black boxes" is inconsistent: they never seem to work the same for any two members.

BUT: like many "cult" items, it now sells for ridiculous prices thru private parties: you can come close to the cost of a full TBC for what people are asking for Sima boxes nowadays. And as seeker47 clearly stated, a significant number of these Simas "blow". No guarantees. No guarantees with the Grex, either, which from what I gather can be a nightmare to reset or adjust for different situations. If you are seriously concerned about CP spreading all over your cable or satellite service, you need a full TBC, preferably a modern, compact model like the AVT-8710 or TBC-1000. The prices on these keep going up, retail last year was $250 yet today stores are getting more like $450. They aren't going to get any cheaper, so now's the time to take the plunge. (Every now and then you can get a good buy on a used one if you're patient.) Avoid the big, older, pro rack mount TBCs: they can often be had for under $100 but they will only clear the CP from old VHS, they are useless with the newer cable/satellite broadcast CP.

I'm not sure if it's an example of the last thing you said, but around the time I got my TBC-1000, you could have bought a TBC-3000 for noticeably less than I ended up paying for the 1000. There was an Ebay auction on one that was up for nearly a month ! Some TV station in the Southwest was getting rid of gear they no longer needed. At the time, I wondered why this item did not sell right away. When I saw the prices the used 1000s were going for, I considered bidding on it. But, if it was of the type you refer to, probably better that I didn't.

I can't remember if the Grex is the one that is supposed to be a lower cost clone of the Zorilla filter. My DataVideo TBC provides only Composite and S-Video connections. I think the Grex and the Zorilla also provide Component. Assuming either of them are any good, could that be an advantage ?

[classfour]

I managed to get a great deal on a DataVideo TBC-100 on ebay. While it wasn't a TBC-1000, it's actually a card made to fit in a PCI slot, with the same specs as a TBC-1000; but it only requires 12V from the computer and NOT the PCI interface. This in mind, I installed it into an external drive case (5 1/4) that had a faulty USB interface - for the 12V power. Works like the TBC-1000, for a fraction of the cost (about $75 invested).

I wish I'd held onto the old Sima: Just to sell it on ebay for a huge profit!

I always felt the CT-2 affected the colors and sharpness of video when I used it.

[orsetto]

I can't remember if the Grex is the one that is supposed to be a lower cost clone of the Zorilla filter. My DataVideo TBC provides only Composite and S-Video connections. I think the Grex and the Zorilla also provide Component. Assuming either of them are any good, could that be an advantage ?

I think you may be right about the Grex being similar to the Zorilla. Regarding component connections on the Grex, I don't recall seeing those when I checked them out but there may be several Grex models so maybe? I don't see how putting component connections on a clarifier would be useful given there are no consumer recorders with component inputs (aside from the one-off Polaroid DVR and a couple of JVC DVHS). If you saw the same confusing advertisement I did, you might have assumed the Grex had component jacks because it spoke of such a hookup. I could be wrong but I think the ad mentioned the Grex only needed to be connected to ONE of the three component feeds to do its work. If thats what they meant to say then I doubt they would put component in-out in this little plastic gizmo. As far as I can tell its supposed flexibility in various setups is controlled by series of DIP switches.

[LCSHG]

A – TBC – [Time Base Corrector] is a device that will correct problems with Analog signals as a VHS tape with MV --- CP, introduces.
Is it being said that one could take a commercial CP --- [Copy Protected ] DVD disk that will not copy but with the use of a TBC --- WILL

Just to be sure that I didn't miss-read
The posts indicate that a TBC will correct a Digital DVD --- CP disk

[orsetto]

Re LCHGS' TBC question, the answer is "maybe yes-maybe no"- it all depends on the particular TBC. I've seen it endlessly repeated that an external TBC "rebuilds the entire sync signal thus blanking all CP interference", but in practice not all TBCs will do this to the same degree. I have tried several megabuck professional TBCs and found they do NOT filter the digital CP from all DVDs: they filter the analog M@#&*vision but do nothing to eliminate CGMS. Other TBCs I've tried do clear this- sometimes. The only external filter I've seen that will consistently clear any CP you throw at it is the Sima CT-200. Some don't like it because they got a "lemon" Sima with picture-altering issues. Mine works perfectly, I sold off all my TBCs after realizing my CT-200 trounces them handily. Many TBCs introduce artifacts as bad or worse than a malfunctioning Sima- its a crapshoot so buyer beware.

There are a GREAT many varieties and strengths of M*vision and CGMS embedded in different DVDs. It is not as consistent as it was in the VHS days. So when buying a filter for backup or viewing purposes, be sure you can return it after testing to be sure it works with YOUR dvds and YOUR equipment.