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Poll: Blu-ray won!

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  1. I'm a MEGA Super Moderator Baldrick's Avatar
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    Yes! But I don't care who won.
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  2. I don't care. There is no HD in my foreseeable future.
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  3. I like how in todays poll, at the moment, 17% of the votes are claiming that HD DVD should have won. Sounds like some poor suckers who actually bought into HD DVD after Toshiba tried to desperately save it by slashing prices. Blu Ray over all is better. And I hear they are already developing 100GB and 200GB discs. The 100GB discs are suppose to be able to play on first generation BD players, but the 200GB disc will play on second generation players. Plus fo those who like to back up huge files optically, this too makes BD the right choice over HDDVD.

    I think another thing that killed the HD DVD format was the fact that all movies were required to have Dolby TrueHD audio to meet the HDDVD specifications. I think thats why many smaller studios went to BD, so they would not have to pay a high licensing fee for a new technology on every movie that they publish to meet the HD DVD specs. The porn industry is one example of this theory.

    Also BD specification allows for a higher bit rate.

    There are just so many ways HD DVD sucks compaired to BD. I am glad to see the best technology has pulled ahead.
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    Originally Posted by gadgetguy
    I don't care. There is no HD in my foreseeable future.
    +1
    But I do like the fact there is now an accepted winner, although reluctant by some.
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  5. It is what it is.

    But I won't be buying one any time soon. Too expensive plus I'd need to get an HDTV first!

    Next.
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  6. Member
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    I don't care who won; I'm just glad this idiotic anti-consumer "war" is over. But I'm still not going to buy a BD player until they're ~$100.

    What I truly do not understand are the partisans of each format whining "Mine is best!" "No, mine is best!" It's like listening to groups of supporters arguing over which brand of fork is the best. Except more annoying.
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  7. Originally Posted by caernavon
    I don't care who won; I'm just glad this idiotic anti-consumer "war" is over. But I'm still not going to buy a BD player until they're ~$100.

    What I truly do not understand are the partisans of each format whining "Mine is best!" "No, mine is best!" It's like listening to groups of supporters arguing over which brand of fork is the best. Except more annoying.
    Well, I'm one of those folks who bought a hd-dvd player. It's works great, and provides the same level of video and audio excellence as blu-ray. Blu-ray may have a spec that permits more space and higher bandwidth - but it has never been used in any way that results in benefit to the customer. And this whole "profile" and "bd+" business with blu-ray was pretty disconcerting, requiring new player purchases to get a complete "profile", or firmware updates before your player will stop spitting out the latest Fox blu-ray title. The prices being at least twice what hd-dvd were didn't help.

    I agree that it should be good for this format competition to be over. Now we'll see what happens now that the movie studios and retailers have handed a monopoly in optical media based high def to Sony/Matsushita.

    By the way - don't hold your breath expecting to see a blu-ray player at $100 in any hurry. Your only shot at mainstream adoption level pricing in high def was hd-dvd, and that option is gone. If a reliable standalone profile 2 (the level that includes what hd-dvd included) blu-ray player that is consistently reported as being reliable for $200 appears, I'll look hard at it. But I'm not holding my breath for that either. Certianly not in 2008.

    So, it's enjoying the hd-dvd titles I have (and maybe picking up some bargains while they are around) , and renting standard def dvd's played upconverted to my 1080pTV for me for the foreseeable future.
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  8. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    I voted "YES! Blu-ray is the best!"

    Why?

    I just so happened to have bought a Sony PS3 a couple of months ago (2007 Christmas present).

    I really bought it as a gaming console but the fact that it is also a first rate Blu-Ray player sure helps.

    So far I've only bought 1 Blu-Ray release (the 5 disc set of BLADE RUNNER) but I have rented a bunch and now that the "war" is over I'll be buying more with confidence that the format is here to stay.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: I really am rather surprised by how many people here ... on a VIDEO forum ... are against going HDTV. I think part of this might have been due to the war so now that that is out of the way I hope more and more people will be willing to give Blu-Ray a chance. The quality is really very nice and a definite noticeable upgrade from standard DVD Video.

    Anyways I am a happy camper with Blu-Ray winning

    Oh and for the record I have a Hitachi CRT Rear Projection unit. It is a 51" 16x9 HDTV with HDCP HDMI and 1080i resolution. As I said above I do see a major improvement in image quality with Blu-Ray over standard DVD Video on this TV and yes I am even comparing that to playing a standard DVD Video on the PS3 which has been tested as being a most excellent standard DVD Video player with excellent up-conversion. As good as it is at that a standard DVD Video cannot hold a candle against the quality of Blu-Ray.
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  9. Member TJK1911's Avatar
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    The two should've continued to co-exist, just as DVD-R/DVD+R do. Dual format players (and writers) should've been developed and become the norm, just as +/-R drives are the norm. Hey, it's just a light and a motor, there's no reason for them to cost any more than any optical drive does now.
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  10. Member edDV's Avatar
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    I'm still in the mode that DVD or TV HD is good enough for 98% of what I watch. For something special (e.g. "Planet Earth") I'd postpone buying the DVD and buy the BluRay disc later.

    Authoring BluRay from my stuff is more of an interest. For now I stockpile to HDV tapes/HDD. I'll be buying a BluRay writer when the prices seem reasonable and when other people have BluRay players. It's easier now to take my laptop or camcorder to an audience than to haul a BluRay player.
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  11. Member Epicurus8a's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by caernavon
    I don't care who won; I'm just glad this idiotic anti-consumer "war" is over. But I'm still not going to buy a BD player until they're ~$100.

    What I truly do not understand are the partisans of each format whining "Mine is best!" "No, mine is best!" It's like listening to groups of supporters arguing over which brand of fork is the best. Except more annoying.
    Ditto
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  12. Member Conquest10's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    Blu Ray over all is better.
    How so? Please explain.

    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    And I hear they are already developing 100GB and 200GB discs.
    What movies can possibly use this amount of space?

    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    Also BD specification allows for a higher bit rate.
    Not really that much 29.4 vs 40. Codecs are pretty efficient these days.

    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    There are just so many ways HD DVD sucks compaired to BD.
    Again I ask, how so? Please explain.
    His name was MackemX

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  13. Member
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    Originally Posted by edDV

    Authoring BluRay from my stuff is more of an interest. For now I stockpile to HDV tapes/HDD. I'll be buying a BluRay writer when the prices seem reasonable and when other people have BluRay players.
    I am hopeful now that the "war" is over, more focus will be given to the editing and authoring tools for BlueRay. Your comment about people [not yet] having BlueRay players is one of the key indicators of the small size of the market as of today. With the double barreled problems of a small available market and two HD standards, it was very hard for the software developers to justify aggressive development programs. Unfortunately, the two format war was only part of the problem. Prices are still too high and I don't think that is going to change quickly. It's even possible that Sony et al will get a big headed attitude and shoot their own foot off. When you really get down to it, HD is only worth so much to the main consumer market. The truth is; upconverted DVDs are surprisingly good - not quite as good as true HD but still quite decent. Sony isn't immune from consumer backlash if they aren't careful.
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  14. Member Epicurus8a's Avatar
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    BTW, here's the official announcement.
    http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr_j1903.htm

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  15. I do not care who won the war. I also wait for the price of the player to drop
    below $100 to get in. I tried twice to get $99 HD-DVD deal in the last 2 months
    and could not get one. So I bought an upconvert DVD player instead.

    In my opinion, improvement from VHS to DVD is a big improvement, OTA
    analogy to digital TV is a big improvement. But improvement from
    DVD(upconverted) to blue-ray is not big enough to justify its current price,
    similar to from VHS to Super-VHS yesterday. So I set my entrance
    point to $100. Although I have already had an 52"LCD(1080p) TV, I am
    happy with upconverted DVD for now. I can wait for years before blue-ray
    player price come down to under $100. I wish it can last long enough to
    get there.
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    Who gives a $hit
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  17. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Thanks for covering Baldrick - I haven't come up with a new poll yet so this works well

    I voted for coexistence. It's ashame. Both have their strong points.

    I am just glad I have a bluray rom player as well as a hddvd drive. I just won't rebuy my 8 or so hddvd movies until or unless my xbox add on hddvd player dies. Then I might consider it.
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  18. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    Yes! But I don't care who won
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  19. Both formats were good and could of coexisted if the studios allowed it.
    I'm glad it's over though.
    BTWcottoinkingsburg,your post is so full of inaccuracies that it's laughable.
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  20. Member Nitemare's Avatar
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    I didn't care. DVD is good enough for me.

    My main interest in video is making my own home-movies and burning them to DVD. The price for blu-ray equipment (if it even exists in this capacity yet) wouldn't be justified for a video of my kids having a gruelling lightsaber battle on the front lawn. The family gets DVDs of my sorry attempts at home movies if they want them... most of them just catch it on Youtube.

    The quality of my "home movies" doesn't even really reach DVD... bluray would be overkill... especially since most of us are still watching our 10-year-old CRT TVs.

    So far I've only bought 1 Blu-Ray release (the 5 disc set of BLADE RUNNER)
    If blu-ray is so awesome and holds so much data.... what did they need 5 discs for? This is an honest question and not a dig a blu-ray. My kid has a PS3 so we were going to be blu-ray (if anything) anyway.
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    Originally Posted by Nitemare
    If blu-ray is so awesome and holds so much data.... what did they need 5 discs for?
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  22. Human j1d10t's Avatar
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    Now what we need are HD DVD to Blu-Ray conversion guides here for those of us that went with HD DVD I had really hoped that HD DVD would win, but what can you do? It was never really about the consumer, and what the consumer wanted. IF WB had not made the decision for the consumer, we'd probably still have HD DVD. And if another studio had made the decision to go with HD DVD Blu-Ray would probably be on it's way out.... And you can't tell me that the studios listened to what the consumer wanted. If so, they must have polled the Amish

    And as much as I want to go high def, until I can pick up a new Blu-Ray player for less than $200, I'll be sticking with standard def DVDs.
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  23. Member rhegedus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by j1d10t
    Now what we need are HD DVD to Blu-Ray conversion guides here for those of us that went with HD DVD
    This works for the few that I've tried.

    HD-DVD to Blu-Ray. Working Guide

    You need lots of hard drive space. About 25GB for the original disk, 18Gb for the main feature EVO, a bit less for the demuxed video and main audio stream, the same for the ts and the same again for the authored m2ts file and folders. About 80-100Gb in total.

    The main problem is trying to sort out the pulldown.


    Originally Posted by j1d10t
    It was never really about the consumer, and what the consumer wanted.
    It sort of was in the end:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252506.stm

    Where Sony had the killer edge is that its Playstation 3 (PS3) computer games console comes pre-fitted with a Blu-ray player.

    So as Sony has sold 10.5 million PS3 consoles since it was launched in late 2006, that is 10.5 million Blu-ray machines already in homes around the world, before you add sales of stand-alone Blu-ray players.

    By contrast, Toshiba has sold only one million HD DVD machines.
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  24. Originally Posted by Nitemare
    If blu-ray is so awesome and holds so much data.... what did they need 5 discs for? This is an honest question and not a dig a blu-ray. My kid has a PS3 so we were going to be blu-ray (if anything) anyway.
    The five disc Blu-ray and HD DVD sets for Blade Runner include four high def versions of the movie (the U.S. Theatrical release, the International release, the Director's Cut, and the new Final Cut) , the workprint version of the movie, and a four hour documentary on the making of Blade Runner. That's why there are five discs.
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  25. Nobody wins this one.

    Toshiba, a lame-o of the first rank, was hardly the company anyone really wanted to see holding all the patents for a new format. And %@#&* Sony needed to be taken out and shot to death the minute they decided to buy (and wreck) Columbia Pictures Studio years ago: ever since, they've been more about copy prohibition, overly-complicated hardware/software designs and sleeping with Hollywood suits than performance and consumer friendliness. Both teams sucked from the get-go.

    BluRay wins? BFD. Watch Sony's stock take a nosedive as we veer ever further from the holiday season and a momentary buying rush caused by the "there's finally a winner!" euphoria wears off. You guys crowing about the PS3 really crack me up the most: the PS3 effect is not going to be as significant as you think, and using it to force Blu Ray into the home has cost Sony dearly. Its wonderful that they made sure the PS3 is the ultimate reliable, upgradeable platform for Bu Ray. The problem is its the ONLY reliable, upgradeable platform for Blu Ray.

    Joe HDTV Gearhead does not want to proudly display the funky PS3 console as his HDTV source, Aunt Mary and Uncle Jim wouldn't be caught dead with a game console in their living room once their kids finally leave for college. The mass market needs decent standalone players, and there aren't too many affordable ones for BD. Most are a horror- even when they work, this nonsense with the BD Java, counter-rotating-levitating copy protection, and all that other programming crap will continue to cause problems and make BD players more expensive and fussy than they need to be. The PC-targeted mega-storage-capacity is overkill and won't gain them any quick inroads to the desktop as long as the blank media prices remain ridiculous: the only person who "needs" a 100GB blank optical disc is someone authoring or ripping a BD disc. Both activities are a royal pain under this convoluted format and more trouble than they're worth outside a studio setting.

    Nobody "absolutely must have" an HD disc player enough to make Sony's half-assed hardware decisions and inflated software prices palatable to a mass market. The only way BD will take over fast is if the studios make a united effort to drop regular DVD and force the issue. Otherwise, BD will take the slow road to dominance. And along the way, that sneaky new "guerilla" Chinese format may just end up with all the marbles.

    HD-DVD was arguably a much better value proposition for the studios and consumers, unfortunately Toshiba bungled it and it got tagged early on as a "format stuck in the past" because it mostly leveraged existing technology and processes. On the other hand Sony tried to jump BluRay so far into the future they crashed into a wall of reality that still pains them mightily.

    Nobody won this one.
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  26. Member Conquest10's Avatar
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    That's not actually good news there Rob. Blu-Ray hardware outselling HD-DVD by more than 10:1 yet only outselling in disc sales 2:1? I don't see the point in touting player sales if they didn't really amount to more disc sales.

    So that whole PS3 was the reason for Blu-Ray victory line doesn't really make sense.
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  27. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Heh! This is just payback time for Sony because their BETAMAX was axed by VHS. I don't care who won but I know this will not make Blu-ray players any cheaper by Christmas 2008. If I wanted a Blu-ray player I'd get the PS3 even though I'm not a gamer. I've read how some SONY standalone Blu-ray players have numerous hardware complaints/problems whatever you wanna call it. Compared to the PS3 it supposedly is easier for hardware firmware upgrades. But $400.00 for a PS3 is a bit steep for my shallow pockets cause I'm so practical. My upconverting dvd players will suit me just fine until perhaps blu-ray players are $100.00 and below. We all know that ain't gonna happen for a long time.
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  28. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Don't take your eyes off the real issue. These guys want to control all media either through capital investment or encryption. The BluRay camp are all about protecting their own interests, not allowing the little guy to play and compete.

    Where are the BluRay DVD recorders? What will they record?
    Certainly not the output of a set top box or TV.

    Wait for a real solution.
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  29. Originally Posted by Conquest10
    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    Blu Ray over all is better.
    How so? Please explain.

    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    And I hear they are already developing 100GB and 200GB discs.
    What movies can possibly use this amount of space?

    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    Also BD specification allows for a higher bit rate.
    Not really that much 29.4 vs 40. Codecs are pretty efficient these days.

    Originally Posted by scottoinkingsburg
    There are just so many ways HD DVD sucks compaired to BD.
    Again I ask, how so? Please explain.
    Read my article again. I like how you ask "What movies can possibly use this space?" To the fact that I said they are developing 100GB and 200GB discs. I might ask, why did you not highlight the very next sentence? Its has the answer your looking for. I look at the technology of both discs from not only what they can deliver in means of video format storage, but also data storage, which can be uncompressed video etc. Actually there is a big difference in 30.24MBs compared to BD 48MBs. Unless of course your the novice who just rips and burns. But if you truly make something from scratch this could add possibly three more uncompressed audio tracks, or a second camera angle. But of course you know what you were doing by putting the 29.4MBs vs the 40MBs video overhead instead of the total overhead. Of course that would not make to much of a difference. But even that shows BD superiority with an additional 8MB of overhead even if the video is at the max 40MBs that BD allows. And for your final question, I answered that in my first post with the required Dolby TrueHD requirements for HD DVD
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  30. Member rhegedus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Conquest10
    That's not actually good news there Rob. Blu-Ray hardware outselling HD-DVD by more than 10:1 yet only outselling in disc sales 2:1? I don't see the point in touting player sales if they didn't really amount to more disc sales.

    So that whole PS3 was the reason for Blu-Ray victory line doesn't really make sense.
    BD has been ouselling HD by between 80:20 and 90:10 since Christmas. Granted, the total sales since inception (and HD's few months head start) are a more representative 3 to 2:1 but then one must also consider the 5 if not 10 free disks that were given away with each HD player.

    The influence of the PS3 should not be underestimated - as early as last March the PS3 was being written of as a trojan horse.

    The PS3 was released in Nov '06:

    Regards,

    Rob
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