YouTube offering higher quality video / Stage6 ends services!

[Duc851]

I ended up using Nero Recode (never used it before) to convert my DVD Quality Mpeg-2 with LPCM audio to AVC (H.62) mp4 with aac-lc audio at 128kbps & 44100

This time I resized the video to the YouTube 480x360 high quality standard and kept the bit rate low at 325.
Nero Recode lets me easily configure every parameter. Easy to use and configure.

So what I did was I made a mp4 file and I copied it and renamed it to a flv file and it plays no problem as an flv.
So I am uploading both the mp4 and flv containers to YouTube now just to see what happens and if there is any difference in sound quality.

I am also uploading a resized MPEG-2 file with full LPCM audio to see what that does.

I was hoping that by giving YouTube a mp4 file in the native H.264 format and with the AAC-LC audio set at YouTube standard that YT's reconvert would not affect it that much. So far the MPEG-2 files I have triued and the flv files sound tinny when played in high quality. The mp4 files sound the best so far. I'll see what happens with theses new ones.

[k.]

[Duc851]

So what I did was I made a mp4 file and I copied it and renamed it to a flv file and it plays no problem as an flv.
So I am uploading both the mp4 and flv containers to YouTube now just to see what happens and if there is any difference in sound quality.

How is that supposed to make a difference?

Doesn't. It just delivers the same video/audio in a different container.
YouTube accepted the flv and rejected the mp4 as a dupl;icate file.
I was hoping that by renaming to flv and having it be 480x360 already with AAC-LC 128kbps audio that the flv would sial through but it hasn't. Currently it is downconverted to mono and I am still waiting for the high quality version. This song has distinct stereo separation so that's why I chose this one as a test.

BTW, the MPEG-2 file has been processed high quality but I still have to type the &fmt=18 on the end to get it.
I was hoping that submitting an flv at 480x360 would trigger the choice toggle to show up on the player. So far I haven't been able to get that without uploading a 640x480 and then the result is stalls and buffering.

[NerdWithNoLife]

I got it to give the HQ option but as a previous poster pointed out, the flash Sorenson fmt=6 seems to be the default. I'm not sure what they're using the mp4's for (maybe Google video search results?) but fmt=18 looks better. The flash version macroblocks significantly, even though I gave them a fine looking video, probably since it is an outdated weaker codec than H.264.

Anyway, if you want YT to reencode both the LQ and the HQ in all its splendor, here are the settings: I uploaded an AVI with 2kbps x264 Video for Windows (fast recompress in VirtualDubMod) and uncompressed audio. I think lossless x264 is overkill, the 2k looks great to my eyes. They're going to wreck it no matter what, as YT wants compatibility and quantity more than quality. Look on the bright side: a larger audience can see your ruined video now.

[NerdWithNoLife]

I noticed something though. While the default (flash) HQ version pixelizes badly, the mp4 version doesn't IF you download it from keepvid.com. fmt=18, however is 320x240 and not so hot. But the downloaded mp4 is 480x360 and better!

So apparently YT has a better looking mp4 lurking in its server, while they insist on playing back a lesser flash version. But why the mp4 then? Nearly all my videos have been converted to covert mp4 versions, even if they were 320x240 < 350k flash videos. Hmm.

Edit: look at this to observe this issue: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KUZPJX4nmKc

[legendhouse]

Marina (Hotforwords),
Your last posted video is pausing on me bad. What did you try new? Your vids usually play fine.

[NerdWithNoLife]

I now think YouTube is wisely preparing for the future with those MP4's that aren't currently being used, but are being created for almost all videos. Even my < 350k flash videos have been turned into MP4's.

<Theory> The beta version of Shockwave is starting to have H.264/AAC support. YT is waiting until the standard version of flash supports it, then they will go official with the MP4's. The higher quality flash versions are just temporary. </Theory> Edit: Maybe it already does (I could be behind the times). This still may be where they're headed though. The HQ flash vids are ancient in the video world and are only a patch, IMO. It's not a coincidence that they still use the same old technology as before (sorenson H.263).

Now would it kill them to let us slip through an MP4 that won't be reencoded?

[NoBuddy]

NerdWithNoLife:
As you are in THEORY right now... What´s your theory about the fact, that the new Betaplayer doesn´t contain a size button - only a full screen button is there.

Fact is that YouTube is changing, but they don´t say where they go.
And btw: I guess most users don´t even care.
Right now YouTube is a funny Beta playground. Theories please.

[Duc851]

Marina (Hotforwords),
Your last posted video is pausing on me bad. What did you try new? Your vids usually play fine.

Exactly! That is why I am working so hard to get a H.264 encoded mp4 video with AAC audio uploaded because starting with Flash Player 9 it is now H.264 compatible and plays stereo AAC.
I have been successful in getting full AAC stereo to come through in fmt=18 and since the video is 320x240 at 256 the video plays smoothly like a standard quality video. So you might say I created a hybrid that works. Although to get it I have to manually type in &fmt=18 then the option to switch back and forth does show up in the player and the audio becomes full stereo.

I have a slow DSL connection with no option to increase speed so while my initial motivation was so that I could watch my videos with the best audio possible I think for us musicians on YouTube we can now deliver the highest quality audio to a wider audience.

Interestingly before I updated my Flash Player to version 9 when I typed &fmt=18 it would not let me play in high quality, it kept going back to standard. When I updated is when fmt=18 worked and the audio became full of life with all my original stereo mix intact.

So getting rid of the buffering stalls has been my goal and I sacrifice video quality to get the audio quality.
Most HQ videos take a long time to load and they slow my computer down. No fun.

[NerdWithNoLife]

Interestingly before I updated my Flash Player to version 9 when I typed &fmt=18 it would not let me play in high quality, it kept going back to standard. When I updated is when fmt=18 worked and the audio became full of life with all my original stereo mix intact.

You are correct. Mine wasn't working because I had flash 9,0,47,0 and instead of 47, the latest is one hundred something. Now I can see the mp4 version with fmt=18. That could be why mp4 isn't yet the default: not everyone is up to date yet. The H.264 deals with blocking WAY better than the "HQ" flash and I sure hope they do eventually switch to mp4.

[hotforwords]

Marina (Hotforwords),
Your last posted video is pausing on me bad. What did you try new? Your vids usually play fine.

legendhouse.. I did nothing differently. I always encode H.264 at 640x480 (except 320x240 a few months ago), 30 fps (I record at 30fps iMovie with built in iSight camera), 3mbps, aac 256kbs cbr

YouTube has been changing their player the past week.. the new player didn't allow you to jump ahead.. but now you can.. and it resizes the player depending on the dimensions of the video file (wide screen or not). And I think the new beta player automatically plays the HQ version.. so perhaps it is having trouble playing it smoothly.. I don't know.

Now if I could only find a way to record widescreen (NOT HD.. but WIDESCREEN) on my Mac with iMovie.. and I mean it could be 640 wide and whatever the height would be.. I would be pumped as AppleTV upscales widescreen video to take up the whole widescreen TV while it leaves letterboxed the same as 4:3..

I guess I could put some tape on my computer screen and crop the video.. but that is a pain.

Marina

[legendhouse]

Marina (Hotforwords),
Your last posted video is pausing on me bad. What did you try new? Your vids usually play fine.

legendhouse.. I did nothing differently. I always encode H.264 at 640x480 (except 320x240 a few months ago), 30 fps (I record at 30fps iMovie with built in iSight camera), 3mbps, aac 256kbs cbr

YouTube has been changing their player the past week.. the new player didn't allow you to jump ahead.. but now you can.. and it resizes the player depending on the dimensions of the video file (wide screen or not). And I think the new beta player automatically plays the HQ version.. so perhaps it is having trouble playing it smoothly.. I don't know.

Now if I could only find a way to record widescreen (NOT HD.. but WIDESCREEN) on my Mac with iMovie.. and I mean it could be 640 wide and whatever the height would be.. I would be pumped as AppleTV upscales widescreen video to take up the whole widescreen TV while it leaves letterboxed the same as 4:3..

I guess I could put some tape on my computer screen and crop the video.. but that is a pain.

Marina

Tape on the computer! That's funny.Thanx for answering.I wish that YouTube would finish whatever they are going to do.

[atropine]

YouTube has been changing their player the past week.. it resizes the player depending on the dimensions of the video file (wide screen or not).

Marina

Has anyone seen an example of Widescreen HQ with no black bars up top or bottom??

Can you post a link to a video please I haven't' seen any examples so far.

[NerdWithNoLife]

Has anyone seen an example of Widescreen HQ with no black bars up top or bottom??

Can you post a link to a video please I haven't' seen any examples so far.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_cpd_lHjFDk

[NerdWithNoLife]

Now if I could only find a way to record widescreen (NOT HD.. but WIDESCREEN) on my Mac with iMovie.. and I mean it could be 640 wide and whatever the height would be.. I would be pumped as AppleTV upscales widescreen video to take up the whole widescreen TV while it leaves letterboxed the same as 4:3..

I guess I could put some tape on my computer screen and crop the video.. but that is a pain.

Marina

You may want to try cropping your video down to widescreen if you don't want to use the full 4:3 screen. Never tried that in iMovie, but you should be able to do that in Final Cut Pro (and output with Compressor). The first thing you should do in your project is adjust the sequence settings to 16:9 640x360 (or whatever you want your video to be). Then import your footage, making sure it is cropped properly (not squashed). And you should be able to output a 16:9 video. And why do they say "eat like a bird" when birds eat a third of their weight daily and "slept like a baby" when my baby keeps me up all night?

[legendhouse]

So how does he get it this clear? http://youtube.com/watch?v=_cpd_lHjFDk"

[legendhouse]

Okay so in Firefox it has the "Higher quality" button and Internet Exp. it is already HQ but right now they are doing maint. so I can't check the HQ button.

[NerdWithNoLife]

He gets it that clear by having a static background that is very easy to compress, and having an expensive camera. My cheapo palmcorder has one CCD. I bet his has 3 and shoots HD progressive frames at 24p (a lower framerate than my 30, also making it easier to compress). It's going to look better in the end, no contest.

[atropine]

Has anyone seen an example of Widescreen HQ with no black bars up top or bottom??

Can you post a link to a video please I haven't' seen any examples so far.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_cpd_lHjFDk

It's got black lines up the top and bottom in normal player mode, but beta player, plays it wide screen.

[hotforwords]

Does it still resize for you? After the update last night I'm not sure if my video players resizes the widescreen vids anymore. Any other examples out there?

[NerdWithNoLife]

I'm going to run a test right now at 480x270 and see if it goes through okay.

Edit: Here's the link. The LQ was resized properly. "Watch this in high quality" takes time and it isn't there yet (and I hope it will be at this resolution). Edit: it's not there yet! It works with 480x360, but apparently for some reason it doesn't like my 480x270 (though I've seen others that did work).

[hotforwords]

NerdWithNoLife, can you do some tests.. and figure out if it makes sense to go larger than 640 width on the widescreen.. in other words.. should I do 640x360 or 853x480?

AppleTV takes widescreen video and has it fill up the whole widescreen tv screen.. so I am thinking about going widescreen in the near future.

Also.. what bitrates should I be doing with this widescreen? I currently do 3mbps.. and 256 aac audio.

Thanks for uploading that video.. it resized for me when I did the &fmt=18

Marina

[hotforwords]

Actually.. I have a question.. what do you all think about widescreen vs. 4x3? On YouTube you end up with a shorter height... does it really make sense for me to even shoot in widescreen as the result is a smaller image in order to accommodate the widescreen format.

Maybe it's still too early to go with that format until YouTube changes their layout and makes the widescreen HEIGHT the same as the 4x3

What do you all think?

[legendhouse]

Marina,for myself I see a difference in 3mbs and 2mbps. The 3 pauses sometimes and the 2 never does.I'm not seeing much quality difference either. This is at 640x480.I shoot in widescreen too.As far as the widescreen height being the same as 4:3...I'm looking forward to it.

[atropine]

Actually.. I have a question.. what do you all think about widescreen vs. 4x3? On YouTube you end up with a shorter height... does it really make sense for me to even shoot in widescreen as the result is a smaller image in order to accommodate the widescreen format.

What do you all think?

Exactly. It all depends on the material, but if you're making it yourself, then 4:3 for sure as you frame things correctly for 4:3. Back in the 350kbit days without hacks or tricks where you really were restricted to 320x240 maximum, I pan and scan'd wide screen material to 4:3 because I care more about detail and on-screen size than being able to see all of the frame.

When youtube give you more realestete for widescreen, then it would make sense to go widescreen.

[NerdWithNoLife]

NerdWithNoLife, can you do some tests.. and figure out if it makes sense to go larger than 640 width on the widescreen.. in other words.. should I do 640x360 or 853x480?

I just uploaded a 640x360 (widescreen) video and a 640x480 video (with black bars).

Strangely, while the previous 480x270 video got a similar fmt=18 video, it did not yield the "Watch this in high quality" flash option, so no one would see it.

This recent 640x360 video however, got resized to a 480x270 fmt=18 and got the "Watch this in high quality" fmt=6. Success.

The 640x480 with black bars is in transition now. I suspect it will get the "Watch this in high quality" option too. Edit: It did and was resized to 480x360. Success, but why not just upload 480x360 if it's getting scaled down anyway?

I wouldn't bother with 853x480 as YT is scaling these down anyway (plus technically it should be 852x480 as the dimensions must be even numbers). So I'd recommend 640x360 widescreen and 480x360 4:3. I sent H.264 2000kbits/sec in an AVI with uncompressed audio. Comprehensive details are in the descriptions of the videos.

[MyDanny]

I got 3 small questions:

a) Is there currently an acceptable solution ? Really, i have like 3-4 Threads from this site here with about 50 pages, i cant read it all. I tried a lot that did not work. So any settings that do pretty good at the moment ?

b) How to create a file (e.g. a batch?) to start MEncoder directly with given commands ? (You press the file, and MEncoder starts to encode the file.xxx you put into folder Y) Because i guess you guys do NOT run CMD and type in 50 commands in there all the time. The Copy&Paste Function is ugly imho.

c) Is there a thread that only deals with the ImportFromCam and Basic Encoding BEFORE encoding to FLV ? Because i read much more about what you did with your files to get the to FLV, but less about how you handled the files before.

Thanks ! And please understand i cant read all.
To add, im not a pro with Codecs / Encoding / Decoding !

[NerdWithNoLife]

a) Is there currently an acceptable solution ? Really, i have like 3-4 Threads from this site here with about 50 pages, i cant read it all. I tried a lot that did not work. So any settings that do pretty good at the moment ?
[...]Thanks ! And please understand i cant read all.
To add, im not a pro with Codecs / Encoding / Decoding !

Understood. It took me quite a good amount of time get caught up on this thread. To answer your first question, I uploaded a lot of test videos and I've come to the following conclusions:

1. You can't get one through without YouTube reencoding it - BUT - the bitrate is higher so it matters less in the case of high quality. Keep in mind most people are still watching in low quality though.
2. Here's how you get "Watch this in high quality" on your videos:
a. Use Divx, Xvid, or H.264 video with a (video) bitrate of 600kbits/s or higher
b. Use a screen size of 480x360 or higher. This means for widescreen you need something like 640x360. An advantage of widescreen is: YouTube will create a 480x270 high quality video. You will get more bang for your bits at that resolution since there are 90 fewer (or less?) lines of resolution than at 480x360. The disadvantage is it will be scaled an extra time, so it's not as good on things like screen capture. But if you have screen capture, it will probably lower your overall bitrate since it typically has more static images, so 480x360 averages out.
c. Audio doesn't matter. You can have no audio, MP3 audio, or uncompressed audio. I try to go uncompressed, unless it's a long video.

I hope that helps. I'm uploading a tutorial video (hopefully today) on creating such a video using VirtualDub.

[connect]

cool, will try it out!, thanx, been messing with these things for so long. hope it works alright

Should the H.264 be Avi or Mpeg-4? and i think bitrate shouldn't be over 900 cos the highest quality "fmt=6" bitrate is fixed to 900. And what about aspect ratio? should i fix it to 4:3 or 16:9 ? or just leave how's my raw file is made?

[bayme]

2. Here's how you get "Watch this in high quality" on your videos:
a. Use Divx, Xvid, or H.264 video with a (video) bitrate of 600kbits/s or higher

Yet another myth. The "watch in high quality" link does not appear when you upload H.264 mp4 by definition. It all depends on your status on YouTube if they put it there. But you can always force it to be there by simply putting the URL in the description, as seen with this example.