Help with Wireless connection and file sharing in Windows Vista

[Ollie6431]

I have a wireless network at home for 3 PCs (two with XP Pro and one with Window 2000 Pro). The wireless network is not boadcasted for security as recommended. I have no problems with wireless connection and file sharing between these 3 PCs. I recently added a 4th PC with Windows Vista Home Premium to my network. There are two problem with this new one that I need help with:

1. It connects to the wireless network without problem after configuration. However, in subsequent sessions it cannot detect the wireless network automatically even though I set Windows Vista to detect the network without broadcasting. It will detect the network automatically in all sessions if I broadcast the network name. That is what I do now but it is not considered good practice.

2. I cannot share files between this 4th PC and the others. This PC does not "see" other PCs in the peer-to-peer network. The other PCs can see this 4th PC in the network but cannot access it ("access denied").

I suspect these may be Windows Vista problems but I may be wrong and would appreciate any advice/thoughts for fixing them.

Thanks,

Some basic info:
-Wireless network (Linksys router) with WEP, MAC filter, static IP for each PC
-Peer-to-peer Windows network
-Firewall enabled in each PC but allowing for Print/file sharing, network detection

[edDV]

For Vista.

1. Try this. Set up the connection with SSID Network name on. Choose to auto connect to this network, then remove network name at the router.

2a. Workgroup name needs to be set to match other computers.

2b. File Sharing is set in the "Network and Sharing Center".

[Krispy Kritter]

I wouldn't think it is totally a Vista issue. When we purchased my wife's laptop at Christmas which has Vista Home Premium. All I had to do was use the network connection wizard to setup the wireless connection. It was pretty simple and only took a few minutes. The laptop is able to see any of the folders/files shared from any other PC on the LAN. The only problem is print related, but it is a known Vista issue.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I've had problems with some WEP access with a Vista laptop and none with a different one.

Consequently, my home network is unencrypted but I use MAC address filtering + I live more than 100 yards from the nearest neighbor.

Temporarily, try your network unencrypted to see if the Vista machine can access that. If it can, it suggests that there is a Vista/WEP issue with your particular hardware.

[Ollie6431]

...

1. Try this. Set up the connection with SSID Network name on. Choose to auto connect to this network, then remove network name at the router.

2a. Workgroup name needs to be set to match other computers.

2b. File Sharing is set in the "Network and Sharing Center".

1. I did this previously but the Vista PC failed to connect to the wireless network in subsequent sessions. I had to turn on broadcasting again
2a & 2b. All has been done previously

...
Temporarily, try your network unencrypted to see if the Vista machine can access that. If it can, it suggests that there is a Vista/WEP issue with your particular hardware.

I just tried to use unencryption option but the Vista PC lost the automatic connection after waking up from stand-by

...
I wouldn't think it is totally a Vista issue. When we purchased my wife's laptop at Christmas which has Vista Home Premium. All I had to do was use the network connection wizard to setup the wireless connection. It was pretty simple and only took a few minutes. The laptop is able to see any of the folders/files shared from any other PC on the LAN

I also used the wizard to connect to the wireless network but subsequent sessions required running the wizard again. Also I could not connect to the LAN (windows workgroup). I agree that if your Vista PC does not have such problems then Vista is not at fault but I am still wondering what the cause may be. I searched the Microsoft web site for solution and all of their trouble-shooting articles address the requirements that I have already done on the Vista PC.


Any further input would be appreciated.

[oldandinthe way]

Do you have a nice new antivirus program on your Vista PC?

Check the settings on your nice new anti-virus program. It may be protecting your Vista machine by blocking all sharing.

For example, Norton 2008 needs massaging which was not necessary with older versions.

[edDV]

Are you saying everything is fine if SSID is turned on? Then leave it on.

Your real protection is WEP (weak) or WPA (less weak) encryption.

Yor probable enemy is a local teen with time to crack the WPA.

[AlanHK]

I have a wireless network at home for 3 PCs (two with XP Pro and one with Window 2000 Pro). The wireless network is not boadcasted for security as recommended.

If by this you mean you turned off SSID, then that's not "recommended", and in fact can cause security problems.

See The six dumbest ways to secure a wireless LAN

SSID hiding: There is no such thing as "SSID hiding". You're only hiding SSID beaconing on the Access Point. There are 4 other mechanisms that also broadcast the SSID over the 2.4 or 5 GHz spectrum. The 4 mechanisms are; probe requests, probe responses, association requests, and re-association requests. Essentially, you're talking about hiding 1 of 5 SSID broadcast mechanisms. Nothing is hidden and all you've achieved is cause problems for Wi-Fi roaming when a client jumps from AP to AP. Hidden SSIDs also makes wireless LANs less user friendly.

So turn SSID back on. You're just creating hassles without getting any increase in security.

Use WPA with a non-obvious passphrase and you'll be as safe as you can be.

[redwudz]

I just tried to use unencryption option but the Vista PC lost the automatic connection after waking up from stand-by

Vista did have issues waking from standby. But I don't remember the link to that discussion. I don't have a wireless router at present, so I haven't ran into any problems. My system is all CAT 5E-6 hardwired, including my Vista laptop.

So far Vista has been a PITA to network, at least compared to my XP computers. But once you get it all set up, it's OK.

[edDV]

I have a wireless router (2wire), 2 wireless Vista, one wireless OSX MAC and two wireless XP all in the same WPA workgroup and it all works fine. We get a lot of power outages here. When that happens, the MAC sometimes needs to be reconnected manually or the router needs to be reset with all machines on.

[Ollie6431]

Do you have a nice new antivirus program on your Vista PC?

Check the settings on your nice new anti-virus program. It may be protecting your Vista machine by blocking all sharing.

For example, Norton 2008 needs massaging which was not necessary with older versions.

Indeed my Vista PC comes with a trial Norton program already installed. I tried to open the control panel to look around for feature setting but could not find any options to change. In fact, it does not give you any idea what the program is doing! I plan to uninstall this program and install another full version software to trouble-shoot. This may be the problem.

Your real protection is WEP (weak) or WPA (less weak) encryption

When I first set up my wireless network, there was one Windows 98 PC that could not use WPA and I ended up buying an adapter that works with Windows 98 but not WPA. Since then I have upgraded this PC to Windows 2000. I will replace this adapter with a new one to work with WPA. WEP is certainly less secure.


Thanks for all of your valuable input!

[Ollie6431]

...
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/index.php?p=43
So turn SSID back on. You're just creating hassles without getting any increase in security.

...

I read the article on ZDNet about the myths on SSID hiding, DHCP disabling, and MAC filtering. While it is true that an experienced hacker can break these measures, they may prevent many opportunistic hackers without the right tools. I have known people, without any hacker knowledge, who use their neighbor's wireless network for internet just because they can connect to the nework with just a click of the mouse.

Also, no wireless network can be 100% safe from hackers with the right know-how and tools.

[AlanHK]

I have known people, without any hacker knowledge, who use their neighbor's wireless network for internet just because they can connect to the network with just a click of the mouse.

I said to enable WPA encryption. These neighbours would NOT be able to do that then. This is a completely different issue to SSID hiding, which is, frankly, stupid, as it does not actually hide anything, while making legitimate connections more troublesome.

If for some reason you can't use encryption, the next best thing is MAC filtering. It's easy for a cracker to spoof, but it would keep most casual leechers away.

[oldandinthe way]

Norton 2008 options are set by getting to the Norton Protection Center and Clicking on Options.

On my XP system you can get to the Norton Protection Center by clicking on the yellow Norton Box in the Taskbar.

[Ollie6431]

Norton 2008 options are set by getting to the Norton Protection Center and Clicking on Options.

On my XP system you can get to the Norton Protection Center by clicking on the yellow Norton Box in the Taskbar.

Thanks for the tip, I will look for that when I get home today.

If for some reason you can't use encryption, the next best thing is MAC filtering

I currently have MAC filtering on the network. After getting a new adapter for one of the PC, I will convert WEP to WPA encryption for more security.

[Ollie6431]

...
Check the settings on your nice new anti-virus program. It may be protecting your Vista machine by blocking all sharing.

...

You are right on! It is the Norton Antivirus program that creates both problems. This weekend, I disabled the Norton program and found out that (1) wireless SSID hiding works on the Vista PC; (2) file/print sharing works on the Vista PC.

From what I see, the Norton Antivirus program's default settings probably do not allow for network detection (in the Firewall option). Even though I set network detection in Windows Vista Firewall but this seems to be overuled by Norton antivirus. I could not find any way to turn on network detection in Norton antivirus. Anyway, disabling Norton antivirus seems to be the temporary solution for now until I can get the antivirus part back.

Thanks again for your diagnostic input.

[AlanHK]

This weekend, I disabled the Norton program and found out that (1) wireless SSID hiding works on the Vista PC...

From what I see, the Norton Antivirus program's default settings probably do not allow for network detection.

When you have "network detection" and a hidden SSID the PC broadcasts the SSID it is looking for. By "hiding" your SSID, instead of the access point advertising itself, your PC is calling out for it. That's why this is pointless. I think Norton is actually correct to discourage this.

http://www.icsalabs.com/icsa/docs/html/communities/WLAN/wp_ssid_hiding.pdf

A station preparing to roam in a WLAN whose BEACONs do not carry the SSID must actively scan to
discover APs. The station sends out PROBE Requests sequentially on all channels with its SSID and
listens for PROBE Responses. The station may do this channel scanning every 50 msec (20 times a
second!) as it attempts to discover a stronger signal. In some office configurations, stations have been
observed to 'bounce' between APs, spending only minutes on one AP and then switching to another based
on signal strength. Thus a WLAN that has stations with weak signals from the APs will readily expose the
SSID in all the PROBE Requests and ASSOCIATION frames.

A network that has only one AP is still faced with roaming behavior and active scanning if SSIDs are
hidden. The same events mentioned above still can occur even if there is only one AP. Even with only one
AP and even if it is configured to use channel 1, the station will still scan all channels checking for other
APs. In the end, the station will ASSOCIATE with its original AP, exposing the SSID.
....
Contrary to a common belief that the SSID is a WLAN security feature and its exposure a security risk, the
SSID is nothing more than a wireless-space group label. It cannot be successfully hidden. Attempts to
hide it will not only fail, but will negatively impact WLAN performance, and may result in additional
exposure of the SSID to passive scanning. The performance impact of this misguided effort will be felt in
multiple WLAN scenarios, including simple operations like joining a WLAN, and in significantly longer
roaming times.

Well, if that doesn't convince you, I give up. Regardless, this is my last post in this thread.