Re NTSC TV's and hacked DVD player

[Katiemay]

My DVP 642/37 is a later US/Canada model (I think they are the same).The menu in mine has a choice of NTSC or PAL or Multi. To play NTSC or PAL DVD's you need it set for NTSC. But it won't play PAL DVD's without a hack code which I got from hacks forum on Videohelp.

The hack for the 642 is to overide the region code. It's not directly related to PAL vs NTSC.

Thats the confusing part. If the setting for PAL in the menu worked, couldn't you play PAL DVD's without a hack? When I tried it, the TV picture kept rolling and I had to set it to NTSC to stop it which wasn't easy to do.Why is there a choice for it in the menu when it can't be used.

[jagabo]

If the setting for PAL in the menu worked, couldn't you play PAL DVD's without a hack?

Region coding and PAL/NTSC format are different things. The DVD world is broken down into several regions. Players are not allowed to play DVDs from other regions, regardless of whether they are PAL or NTSC. Region free hacks allow a player to play discs from other regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Whether a player can play PAL or NTSC, or convert from one to another is a separate issue.

[Katiemay]

If the setting for PAL in the menu worked, couldn't you play PAL DVD's without a hack?

Region coding and PAL/NTSC format are different things. The DVD world is broken down into several regions. Players are not allowed to play DVDs from other regions, regardless of whether they are PAL or NTSC. Region free hacks allow a player to play discs from other regions.

So a region hack makes the player Region 0 then you can play NTSC and PAL DVD's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Whether a player can play PAL or NTSC, or convert from one to another is a separate issue.

[jagabo]

So a region hack makes the player Region 0 then you can play NTSC and PAL DVD's.

I'm sorry, I didn't state it clearly. The region code only determines whether the player is allowed to play the disc. Whether a player has the ability to play PAL or NTSC or convert from one to another is a separate issue.

[Katiemay]

If the setting for PAL in the menu worked, couldn't you play PAL DVD's without a hack?

Region coding and PAL/NTSC format are different things. The DVD world is broken down into several regions. Players are not allowed to play DVDs from other regions, regardless of whether they are PAL or NTSC. Region free hacks allow a player to play discs from other regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Whether a player can play PAL or NTSC, or convert from one to another is a separate issue.

Yes, I knew the DVD world is broken down into various regions, and players are not supposed to play DVD's from other regions. This being the case, I wondered why the DVP642 even has a choice of PAL in the player menu. Its not needed in an NTSC player. But maybe its because the DVP642 is sold in countries who use PAL, and Philips use the same menu for all countries.

[hech54]

If the setting for PAL in the menu worked, couldn't you play PAL DVD's without a hack?

Region coding and PAL/NTSC format are different things. The DVD world is broken down into several regions. Players are not allowed to play DVDs from other regions, regardless of whether they are PAL or NTSC. Region free hacks allow a player to play discs from other regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Whether a player can play PAL or NTSC, or convert from one to another is a separate issue.

Yes, I knew the DVD world is broken down into various regions, and players are not supposed to play DVD's from other regions. This being the case, I wondered why the DVP642 even has a choice of PAL in the player menu. Its not needed in an NTSC player. But maybe its because the DVP642 is sold in countries who use PAL, and Philips use the same menu for all countries.

You'll go bonkers if you dig too deep into all of this...
Not all players can do what your player can do....that is convert
"on the fly" between PAL and NTSC...consider yourself lucky and move on.

OK...now it gets weird....without a region hack on your player...even your player
would spit out (not literally but you know what I mean) a factory made/pressed
disc from another region....it would not even allow you to play it.

So now lets say that you have a player that does NOT convert on the fly but is
hackable to ignore region codes. You hack the player. The player will now "recognize"
the disc...but if it is a PAL disc you either won't be able to see it OR it will show up as
black and white on your NTSC television...simply because the TV cannot understand
the PAL signal.

OK....now an even more strange scenario.
Any one of us here can create a homemade DVD that is Region 1...but
in PAL format. (Region 1 is notoriously NTSC as you have found out).
A player that cannot be hacked to ignore region codes will recognize
the disc but your TV will not understand the PAL format.

We can also create a Region 2(or 4) homemade DVD that is in NTSC
format....again completely backwards to what is normal since regions
2 and 4 are notoriously PAL. Your television would easily be able to understand
it's native NTSC signal....but without a region hack on your player...you won't even
get to "first base" so to speak and the player will reject this disc that is not from
it's region.

Crazy huh?

[jagabo]

I even have a few commercial DVD releases from the UK that are PAL but region free.

Note that some regions include both PAL and NTSC countries.

[Katiemay]

If the setting for PAL in the menu worked, couldn't you play PAL DVD's without a hack?

Region coding and PAL/NTSC format are different things. The DVD world is broken down into several regions. Players are not allowed to play DVDs from other regions, regardless of whether they are PAL or NTSC. Region free hacks allow a player to play discs from other regions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Whether a player can play PAL or NTSC, or convert from one to another is a separate issue.

Yes, I knew the DVD world is broken down into various regions, and players are not supposed to play DVD's from other regions. This being the case, I wondered why the DVP642 even has a choice of PAL in the player menu. Its not needed in an NTSC player. But maybe its because the DVP642 is sold in countries who use PAL, and Philips use the same menu for all countries.

You'll go bonkers if you dig too deep into all of this...:)
Not all players can do what your player can do....that is convert
"on the fly" between PAL and NTSC...consider yourself lucky and move on.

I didn't think I was going too deep. It was just a comment. I just wondered why some N.American DVD players have a choice of PAL in the menu, when you can't play PAL DVD's without a hack. So I tried to guess why. But how am I lucky that my player can convert "on the fly"? All Philips players can do that as far as I know. Doesn't on the fly mean direct recording? What does that mean in regard to my DVD player?

>OK...now it gets weird....without a region hack on your player...even your player
would spit out (not literally but you know what I mean) a factory made/pressed
disc from another region....it would not even allow you to play it.

Not without a hack.

>So now lets say that you have a player that does NOT convert on the fly but is
hackable to ignore region codes. You hack the player. The player will now "recognize"
the disc...but if it is a PAL disc you either won't be able to see it OR it will show up as
black and white on your NTSC television...simply because the TV cannot understand
the PAL signal.

Hard to understand the above, since I don't know what on the fly mean in the context you use it above?

I deleted your two last paragraphs as thats more than I need to know. Also, I don't do homemade DVD's. Originally I just wanted to know if you can use any make of TV to play a PAL DVD from my hacked DVD player, and found out the make of TV is immaterial. Second question was does the conversiion of NTSC to PAL take place in the DVD player which was my understanding and NOT the TV, I think you and someone else agreed with me that it was the case. So I've found out most of what I asked but I didn't mind the extra info. Thanks for your input and thanks to everyone else here.

>Crazy huh?
:lol:

Not if you know all about these things - but I don't.

[jagabo]

"On the fly" in this context means converting PAL to NTSC while playing the disc. As opposed to "offline" on a PC where you rip the DVD (copy it to the hard drive), convert PAL to NTSC, and burn a new DVD.

[Katiemay]

"On the fly" in this context means converting PAL to NTSC while playing the disc. As opposed to "offline" on a PC where you rip the DVD (copy it to the hard drive), convert PAL to NTSC, and burn a new DVD.

OK. Thanks.

[RowMan]

Katiemay,

This is getting way too complicated for what you originally asked.

In order to play your PAL DVDs and any other DVDs that are not Region 1 on your DVP 642/37, you'll need to do this...

1. Make sure the video setting on your DVD player is set to NTSC. (This means that no matter if the disc you want to play is PAL or NTSC, your player will always output NTSC so that you can see it properly on your TV.

2. Apply the region hack shown ealier in this thread. (This part allows you to play DVDs from other regions regardless of whether they are NTSC or PAL)

Doing these two things will allow you to watch any DVD on your NTSC television no matter what part of the world it came from.

Edit... Sorry. Looks like you were actually just looking for a way to explain to someone else how you can play PAL, non region 1 DVDs on an NTSC TV. I think you're well on the way to forming an answer.

[Richard_G]

This seams to be going around in circles, so I'll try and make it plain.

The PAL/NTSC setting only affects what your DVD players outputs to your TV, so if you have a PAL only TV you set it to PAL, if you have an NTSC only TV you set it to NTSC, if you have a TV that can accept both, you can set it to anything you like. You have an NTSC TV so setting the output to PAL caused it to roll.

North American DVDs are Region 1, European are Region 2. Region 1 DVS are NTSC, Region 2 DVDs are mostly PAL although some are NTSC as Japan is also in Region 2 but uses NTSC.

The DVD player can play either NTSC or PAL discs and can output PAL or NTSC but the Region coding means it can only play Region 1 discs. The hack takes off the Region coding. It could already play PAL discs, it's just that it could only play Region 1 and there are no Region 1 PAL discs.

Edited to add that it looks like Rowman can type faster than me......

[Katiemay]

Katiemay,

This is getting way too complicated for what you originally asked.

Edit... Sorry. Looks like you were actually just looking for a way to explain to someone else how you can play PAL, non region 1 DVDs on an NTSC TV. I think you're well on the way to forming an answer.

Yes, my first message which started this thread explained what I wanted to know and why. I applied a hack for my North American Philips DVP 642 DVD player 8 months ago, from instructions from the hack forum. I've played 10 PAL movies since then and they all play perfectly. I started this thread to ask a couple of questions and got more information and more involved as I went along which was fine with me. It was interesting. Jagabo, gadget guy,hech84 and others answered my questions and have been very patient and helpful. I understand most things said here except for a few things. Its been a good experience and I learned a lot. Thanks

[Katiemay]

This seams to be going around in circles, so I'll try and make it plain.

>The PAL/NTSC setting only affects what your DVD players outputs to your TV, so if you have a PAL only TV you set it to PAL, if you have an NTSC only TV you set it to NTSC, if you have a TV that can accept both, you can set it to anything you like. You have an NTSC TV so setting the output to PAL caused it to roll.

OK.

>North American DVDs are Region 1, European are Region 2. Region 1 DVS are NTSC, Region 2 DVDs are mostly PAL although some are NTSC as Japan is also in Region 2 but uses NTSC.

>The DVD player can play either NTSC or PAL discs and can output PAL or NTSC but the Region coding means it can only play Region 1 discs. The hack takes off the Region coding. It could already play PAL discs, it's just that it could only play Region 1 and there are no Region 1 PAL discs.

>Edited to add that it looks like Rowman can type faster than me......

I didn't know there were any TV's which accept both PAL and NTSC. Would they be North American TV's? Not sure what you mean by "Edited to add that it looks like Rowman can type faster than me.... " - unless you mean that you were going to say some of the same things as Rowman. Thanks for the explanations.

[KBeee]

Not only does the DVP642 play PAL with no hacks, so do my other two DVD players, one Toshiba, one Lite-On. I guess things improved while I wasn't looking. That's good.

How did you get your 642 to play PAL? My DVP 642/37 woundn't play PAL before I input the hack. I tried and it caused the TV picture to keep rolling tilll I changed it back to NTSC. Do you have model DVP642 or DVP 642/37? or later ? Did you choose PAL or NTSC setting in Video section in General menu?I have a Toshiba DVD player 6 yrs old. probably no hack for it.

Your DVD player wouldn't play the PAL disk before the hack because the PAL disk wasn't Region 1.
Your DVD player also wouldn't play an NTSC disk before the hack if it wasn't Region 1 (such as a Japanese NTSC Region 2 DVD).

(Oh I'm waaaay too slow - but it IS 4am here)

[jagabo]

Most European TVs can play both PAL and NTSC. Because Region 1 includes both Europe (PAL) and Japan (NTSC).

[Katiemay]

Not only does the DVP642 play PAL with no hacks, so do my other two DVD players, one Toshiba, one Lite-On. I guess things improved while I wasn't looking. That's good.

How did you get your 642 to play PAL? My DVP 642/37 woundn't play PAL before I input the hack. I tried and it caused the TV picture to keep rolling tilll I changed it back to NTSC. Do you have model DVP642 or DVP 642/37? or later ? Did you choose PAL or NTSC setting in Video section in General menu?I have a Toshiba DVD player 6 yrs old. probably no hack for it.

Your DVD player wouldn't play the PAL disk before the hack because the PAL disk wasn't Region 1.
Your DVD player also wouldn't play an NTSC disk before the hack if it wasn't Region 1 (such as a Japanese NTSC Region 2 DVD).

(Oh I'm waaaay too slow - but it IS 4am here)

My DVD player wouldn't play PAL before the hack because my DVd player IS Region 1.
My DVD player plays NTSC disks without a hack becuase it IS region 1. So not sure what you mean above. I am in Canada, therefore NTSC, region 1.

[Katiemay]

Most European TVs can play both PAL and NTSC. Because Region 1 includes both Europe (PAL) and Japan (NTSC).

I didn't know that most European TV's can play PAL and NTSC.I thought they just played Region 2 (PAL) movies only, same as Region 1 is NTSC only. That could be why the menu in Philips DVP642 has a choice of either NTSC or PAL, so they both can use the same menu. But about Japan above, you lost me there. You said above that Region 1 includes Japan (NTSC). Japan is Region 2 flor DVD movies.

[jagabo]

My DVD player wouldn't play PAL before the hack because my DVd player IS Region 1.
My DVD player plays NTSC disks without a hack becuase it IS region 1. So not sure what you mean above. I am in Canada, therefore NTSC, region 1.

You still don't seem to understand. It's entirely possible for a region 1 DVD to contain PAL video. Region codes and PAL/NTSC are completely unrelated.

[Katiemay]

My DVD player wouldn't play PAL before the hack because my DVd player IS Region 1.
My DVD player plays NTSC disks without a hack becuase it IS region 1. So not sure what you mean above. I am in Canada, therefore NTSC, region 1.

You still don't seem to understand. It's entirely possible for a region 1 DVD to contain PAL video. Region codes and PAL/NTSC are completely unrelated.

I didnt' really think much about that. I have only been interested in NTSC - Region 1 DVD movies ( North America) and PAL being Region 2 (UK) because UK PAL DVD movies are all that I am interested in, besides North America.

[guns1inger]

Region 2 also includes Japan, which is NTSC. I am in Region 4, and we get a number of Region 2,4 discs (both regions set on the disc) so they can be released both here and in the UK, but we also get a number of Region 4 marked discs that are NTSC simply because the studio can't be arsed creating a PAL master. I dare say that the same happens in the UK.

[Katiemay]

Region 2 also includes Japan, which is NTSC. I am in Region 4, and we get a number of Region 2,4 discs (both regions set on the disc) so they can be released both here and in the UK, but we also get a number of Region 4 marked discs that are NTSC simply because the studio can't be arsed creating a PAL master. I dare say that the same happens in the UK.

It seems a bit confusing to me, but I guess you're used to it. It would be easier for everybody if they just made all DVD's playable in any country. Many people use hacks and other ways to see other region DVD's anyway.

[Richard_G]

The Region coding and the format are two different things. The differences in format are historical, NTSC was invented in the US and adopted there. The rest of the world decided that the quality wasn't good enough so went with PAL.

Region coding is an invention of Hollywood. The idea is that many films have different release dates in different countries. By using the Region coding they could release a movie on DVD in the US and those of us in Europe wouldn't be able to watch it before it was released, at a later date, over here.

All it does is create confusion and, as you say, anyone with any sort of interest will use a hacked or multi-region player anyway. It has become even sillier in recent years as virtually all DVD players sold in Europe are multi-region and don't need a hack (as they are all Chinese manufactured and are intended for all markets). Those same players sold in the US will have been crippled before being shipped.

With the advent of internet shopping, if I want a DVD that hasn't been released here yet, so isn't available from amazon.co.uk, I just go to amazon.com and buy it from the US instead!

[lordsmurf]

Regions are ineffective. Copying a disc removes them (because most rippers strip it out). The hard part is a player that will play PAL to an NTSC television, but that's less of an issue since most all Chinese DVD players do both. Most players are now made in China. PAL sets can all handle an NTSC signal in quasi PAL-60 format.

[Katiemay]

The Region coding and the format are two different things. The differences in format are historical, NTSC was invented in the US and adopted there. The rest of the world decided that the quality wasn't good enough so went with PAL.

I see.
<Region coding is an invention of Hollywood. The idea is that many films have different release dates in different countries. By using the Region coding they could release a movie on DVD in the US and those of us in Europe wouldn't be able to watch it before it was released, at a later date, over here.

Yes, The DVD comes out in the US and Canada first and film studios set up other regions for later releases so they would get more profits.

>All it does is create confusion and, as you say, anyone with any sort of interest will use a hacked or multi-region player anyway. It has become even sillier in recent years as virtually all DVD players sold in Europe are multi-region and don't need a hack (as they are all Chinese manufactured and are intended for all markets). Those same players sold in the US will have been crippled before being shipped.

Exactly. I'm in Toronto and most DVD players sold here are made in China.I am not sure if other brands of players can be hacked, but most Philips can be hacked. Its no secret here. Of course you don't see it advertised since we are Region 1, US/Canada. We can't play it without a hack like you though.

>With the advent of internet shopping, if I want a DVD that hasn't been released here yet, so isn't available from amazon.co.uk, I just go to amazon.com and buy it from the US instead!

I didn't know all DVD players sold in Europe are muti region. Its nice to know how things work outside of N. America. Yes, you can always order a Region 1 DVD from Amazon.com. Which reminds me -I sent a Region 1 DVD movie to a friend in Scotland 3 years ago (not a home made DVD). He said he couldn't view it on his TV when he put it in his DVD player. He didn't say why). I think his TV is a Goodman or something (not sold here) but from what you are saying, he should have had no problem.

[jagabo]

I sent a Region 1 DVD movie to a friend in Scotland 3 years ago (not a home made DVD). He said he couldn't view it on his TV when he put it in his DVD player.

Because his DVD player was a region 2 player and you sent him a region 1 disc. The region code is just a number on the disc. If the player doesn't like the number it refuses to play it.

[Katiemay]

[quote="jagabo"]

I sent a Region 1 DVD movie to a friend in Scotland 3 years ago (not a home made DVD). He said he couldn't view it on his TV when he put it in his DVD player.

Because his DVD player was a region 2 player and you sent him a region 1 disc. The region code is just a number on the disc. If the player doesn't like the number it refuses to play it.[/q

My friend asked me to send him a Region 1 disc because he thought it should work on his DVD player which he said was a multi region player and could play any region discs. And Scotland is the UK and part of Europe, and Richard is also in the UK, and Richard says above: "It has become even sillier in recent years as virtually all DVD players sold in Europe are multi-region and don't need a hack (as they are all Chinese manufactured and are intended for all markets" -Am I wrong again?

[jagabo]

My friend asked me to send him a Region 1 disc because he thought it should work on his DVD player which he said was a multi region player and could play any region discs.

Either his player wasn't really region free, or it was one of the few European players that couldn't play NTSC. Or maybe his player could play NTSC but it was set output an NTSC signal, or a PAL 60 signal, which his TV couldn't sinc to.

[guns1inger]

I don't know of any new PAL kit that isn't multi-format and won't play both PAL and NTSC and output a native signal if asked. Same for TVs. That said, many manufacturers still default the PAL players to PAL output rather than native output, which is annoying.

While pretty much all players are capable of being region free, some manufacturers (mostly brand names, not no-names) do have a range that are region locked, with the resellers providing information on how to unlock them. You will often find the region free version sitting next to them on the shelf anyway, but they still try sell region locked versions - go figure.

[Richard_G]

My friend asked me to send him a Region 1 disc because he thought it should work on his DVD player which he said was a multi region player and could play any region discs.

Either his player wasn't really region free, or it was one of the few European players that couldn't play NTSC. Or maybe his player could play NTSC but it was set output an NTSC signal, or a PAL 60 signal, which his TV couldn't sinc to.

jagabo probably hit the nail on the head. The DVD player is almost certainly region free and will be able to play both PAL and NTSC discs. However, you remember ealier in the thread there was mention of setting the output from the DVD player to PAL, NTSC or AUTO? By default they are usually set to AUTO. In this case they output whatever format the disc is. In AUTO, play a PAL DVD nad it outputs PAL, play an NTSC DVD and it outputs NTSC. Now with most TVs this wouldn't be a problem but......

We are talking about a Goodmans here. Goodmans is a brand that used to be a traditional British owned company, now it is a name applied to the cheapest, nastiest, bottom of the pile TVs in production and only made for the UK market. Consequently, they are, or at least were, about the only brand of TV you could buy that couldn't deal with NTSC. I mean, to be able to cope with an NTSC input might have involved an additional 3 or 4 components and would have increased production cost by 10p or so. Just not worth the extra expenditure!

Had he changed the output setting on his DVD player to PAL, it would have worked!