LSX and CCE

[malducci]

I was looking at the comparisons no this site about the all three encoders.
The test shows that CCE is the best looking and the fastest. I used CCE 2.5 and it was fast and better than tmpgenc in quality. I recently tried LSX on a whim, and was shocked at the quality it delivered. My file is an AVI 480x480 uncompressed with raw RGB 24bit color spacing and 44khz 16bit stereo audio. I was trying to achieve a birate of around 2100kbit video and 128kbit audio. I gave up on Tmpgenc since it took to long to encode. I found that CBR @ 2100 with CCE gave better results then VBR 3pass @ 2100 with CCE, but I still noticed artifacts on complete stills(great for motion though ). I tried different settings for motion versus still picture compansation. I found that for an additional 200+kbit on the video, the still motion areas looked great, but the size was more then I wanted.

I recently tried LSX 3.5 with the default settings, CBR 2100kbit, 128kbit audio, and set to SVCD compliant mpeg2 streaming. The result was great for the still motion areas and great for the heavy motion. I can't believe the difference LSX has over CCE. Maybe CCE 2.64 is improved over CCe 2.50, but LSX kicks it butt when it comes to lower bit rate in mpeg2 streaming.

Of course I'll do more tests, but for now - LSX is just awesome for SVCD's. FYI-

Though I mention this since no one seems to have any opinions or experience on LSX.

Thanks

[Kdiddy]

" found that CBR @ 2100 with CCE gave better results then VBR 3pass @ 2100 with CCE, but I still noticed artifacts on complete stills(great for motion though ). I tried different settings for motion versus still picture compansation. I found that for an additional 200+kbit on the video, the still motion areas looked great, but the size was more then I wanted.
I recently tried LSX 3.5 with the default settings, CBR 2100kbit, 128kbit audio, and set to SVCD compliant mpeg2 streaming. The result was great for the still motion areas and great for the heavy motion. I can't believe the difference LSX has over CCE. Maybe CCE 2.64 is improved over CCe 2.50, but LSX kicks it butt when it comes to lower bit rate in mpeg2 streaming. "

Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you here. A lot goes into how you framserved the file to CCE, that determines its quality output. RGB usage in CCE is not exactly CCE's strongpoint. I would also contend that VBR is better than CBR when rates are lower than 2.5. I woud like ot know ALL you settings when you used CCE. I would like to see this file that LSX produces and put it side by side to my sample CCE file.

[KoalaBear]

RGB usage in CCE is not exactly CCE's strongpoint.

Actually, Kdiddy, no MPEG encoder handles RGB natively. They all perform a colorspace conversion to YUV if the data isn't already in that format.

[Kdiddy]

ok

[malducci]

Kdiddy,

In the examples I gave, I did not frameserve to CCE. I used two 2gig AVI files for the tests. These files are captured with IUvcr at 480x480 with 29.97fps 24bit raw uncompressed. I run them through virtualDub to deinterlace them with "blend fields together(best)".

On CCE I load the 2gig avi directly. 2100kbit VBR 3 pass had a pulsing effect of artifacts on the still motion in the beginning of the video, but fine for the motion part. 2100kbit CBR was much better with only a little bit of artifacts on the still motion( the pulsing was gone) and the heavy motion had no problems. Although CBR gave better results than VBR, they both showed artifacts when the text faded in or out.

These are the settings I used for CCE 2.5

CBR 2100kbit
video out only
(under video tab)
-Add sequence end code (checked)
-upper fields first (checked)
-Progressive frames (checked) : it says to check this if the *source* is progressive
-Zigzag scanning order

-Luminance level = 0-255
-intra DC precision= 10
-aspect ratio=dar 4:3
GOP was set to default, M=3 N/M=5

Image quality priority was set to 30
Anti Noise filter was set to 3 ( I tried this disabling this also )

Also the video output is set to ES

LSX - I set the stream of mpeg2 to SVCD compatibilty and audio to 128kbit - video to CBR 2100kbit and left everything else default.

I compared both completed mpeg2 files from each encoder with bitrate viewer. Both had an average of around 2060kbit.

The AVI files were captured on an ATI TV wonder using IUvcr and are of mid to high motion CG anime game from a PS-1. The first video file has an opening screen high res text, the rest is mid to high motion CG with stuff like fly by and rain etc. Each video file is 1min 39sec in length. Again, I did not frameserve to CCE or LSX( not sure if I could ).

CCE is version 2.5
LSX is version 3.5

System:
1Ghz Athlon
384megs of pc133 ram
two 40gig 7200 ata100 hard drives with fat32.
OS is win98 on first drive and XP on second drive
SB live audio card
Newest version of the ATI TV wonder PCI card
MMC 7.5( but I'm not using it )
Running about 97% resource free on clean boot.

I don't know if there is anymore info to give other than pics ( I'll try to post some if anyone is really that interested).

Thanks[/img]

[malducci]

On a side note I would like to say that I have compared only two samples. I know different videos will have different quality output, and I will try some different videos. So far LSX performed excellent for low to no motion and great for mid to high motion.

[Kdiddy]

Well to be honest I have not the luxury of working with an Interlaced source. Have you tried NOT deinterlacing the source. And leaving CCE progressive unchecked???..also, I would framserver with Avisynth instead of Vdub.

I can tell you that a DC of 8 instead of 10 is better, along with 16-235 for luminance.

I didnt want to come off as the expert or anything, Im surely not that. As far as encoders, most people always say TMPG or CCE is the top dawg. Hardly LSX, unless they have released a new version I dont know of within the last few months. I find CCE beter than TMPG for the videos that I do. but am always open to a new process if it proves to be better for what I do.

[bbb]

I can tell you that a DC of 8 instead of 10 is better, along with 16-235 for luminance.

Better in what way? In speed or quality?

[Kdiddy]

If your eye can notice, quality.

[malducci]

Kdiddy-

I tried the settings for CCE you mentioned. I set the DCT to 9 and the lum to 16-235. I compared the mpeg's again. CCE looks just as good on the still motion and a little better on the high motion than LSX. I'll do some more tests since I have not tweaked any of LSX's settings.