LCD vs CRT

[cyflyer]

Until now have been using a CTX with a Trinitron screen, 17" . Great monitor, good picture etc. But its white casing and bulk seemed a bit at odds with the new slick black computer I got, so I got an LG 1900R 19" LCD. Great design, 2000:1 contrast ratio, top specs. The picture is bright and looks great generally, however, I get the impression that colour depth, pictue quality is not up the standard of my old Trinitron. If I open my 'Hotmail', (anyone with Hotmail will know what I'm talking about) the orange bars that highlight the unopened mails are difficult to distinguish from the white background. If I move my head a little up or down the brightness of the picture changes. No amount of tweaking the adustments changes those. I need to do accurate Photoshop editing. I am now wondering if I did the right thing in changing over. Are quality CRT's such as Trinitron still better photo quality than high spec LCD's ? Anyone with similar experiences or opinions ?
I have to make a decision before getting rid of my CRT Trinitron.

[Coolpplse]

I think the problem with ur LCD seems to be lack of viewing angles for it, 2 of my Samsung LCDs do just fine for about 20 - 45 degree angle on all sides before u start noticing the picture changes

[guns1inger]

The first thing I would say is that regardless of the monitor, there is no substitute for regularly calibrating it. Especially if you use it for image or video processing. There are a number of calibration kits available now at reasonable cost, and they make a hell of a difference. I suspect you will find that your normal settings are too bright, the colours to strong, and the contrast too high. I am fortunate enough to access to one of these to calibrate with : http://www.colorvision.com/product-mc-s2e.php, and have been surprised at just how far off my original settings were.

Secondly, why get rid of it ? Why not run both ?

[cyflyer]

Secondly, why get rid of it ? Why not run both ?

Firstly space, (not the final frontier type, but the desktop variety), and secondly need to recoup some dosh to pay for the new gear, isn't that how it normally works ? Easier to sell my old computer if there's a monitor to go with it. What kind of difference did the calib. kit do on yours that the normal adjust range couldn't ? My LG 1900R came with a basic adjustment software called 'forte manager' but I don't like it, seems too basic, the contrast/brightness scales are only three boxes whereas I would have expected a dozen or so going from white to black.
Its as you say, too bright too strong etc.

[lordsmurf]

"Bright" for an LCD is a bad thing, in my opinion. I purposely bought the LG 1920P because it could tuned down similar to a CRT. Those bright LCDs are going to make everybody go blind.

[guns1inger]

You basically set all the setting to neutral on your monitor and card, except for the temperature, which I set to a balmy 6500. From there, the calibration software creates an appropriate ICC profile for your monitor which is loaded into your card at start up. It does this by running a calibration program through your monitor while a sensor sits on top and scans the display. The process takes around 20 minutes. You refresh this periodically by recalibrating to allow for the monitor changing over time. I found that it reduced the brightness and contrast from the levels I would have manually set them to. The fidelity between what I create in photoshop, and the prints I get from those files is much higher than what I was getting before.

[lordsmurf]

I also use a Spyder. http://www.colorvision.com/product-mc.php
The Konica-Minolta laser printers also have great color correction, including a decent Pantone match.

[cyflyer]

Interesting software, which one of the three do you use ? There seems a big price difference between the cheapest to the most expensive version, but is their ability similar ? I suppose I could always buy one with a friend and both use it as the cost of the pricier one is practically what the monitor cost. The LG 1920P, Lordsmurf, is probably the same engine as my 1900R, how are you finding it compared to a good CRT then ? ('good CRT' meaning the trinitron/mitsubishi flat faced standard of CRT) Does yours come with this 'forte manager' software also ?

[rallynavvie]

Bah, I bought a good 1920x1200 LCD and I'm still not sold on the color quality between a good CRT and a good LCD. I had a 6 year old ViewSonic G90 that worked perfectly with my ICC profiles but the LCD is still having some gamut issues. Fortunately my work no longer requires that sort of precision. Besides I still believe in sending video previews to an NTSC TV instead of an RGB display

As for dimming the backlight on an LCD I couldn't agree more. I don't think we're going to go blind but it's good practice to have relief lighting behind the monitor so it's less of a strain on your eyes. However it would be nice to have some sort of automatic dimmer for an LCD so that during the day and with all the lights on it would be at higher brightness than if you were working late at night with only a lamp nearby. There must be a way with a photocell and some simple software correcting things on the PC side. It would also be nice to have a button on my MCE remote dim that display to almost nothing for when I'm watching movies on the big screen.

[jagabo]

Nokia makes a free monitor test program. Much of if is geared toward CRT displays but other parts are useful with LCDs too.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=960

[bendixG15]

That Nokia program is great for a quick check on your screen to see if you are in the ballpark.

[dphirschler]

I used "Monitor Calibration Wizard". Similar thing to the Nokia software. Free too. Made a huge difference. It was way too bright out of the box.


Darryl

[cyflyer]

I thought I was getting paranoid, but I noticed something else on my high end LCD, it appears slightly darker at the top than it is at the bottom ! If I scroll the gray background on the Videohelp thread posts, it becomes lighter as it moves from the top of the page to bottom. Ahhhhh ! Anyone else notice this ? Lordsmurf, does yours do the same ? You have to look at it very critically, and it cannot be a calibration issue. I am definately considering taking it back and going back to my CRT Trinitron if this is the case with LCD's.

[jagabo]

I thought I was getting paranoid, but I noticed something else on my high end LCD, it appears slightly darker at the top than it is at the bottom !

Brightness irregularities like that are very common with LCDs. The viewing angle can make a difference. I find most LCD monitors are designed to be viewed with your eyes level with the top of the monitor.

[cyflyer]

I'm talking about veiwing at perfect right angle jagabo.

[jagabo]

Like I said, brightness irregularities like that are common in LCD displays. The better ones have less of it.

[cyflyer]

The better ones have less of it.

Well I'm glad I got one of the better ones. I started looking at every lcd I come across for the same thing and it appears they're all like that. How can that be ? New technology is supposed to be an improvement over the old isn't it ? The colour depth and accuracy is one thing, but to have it vary from top to bottom also, that is the pits for me.
So if you have a gray scale running horizontial from left to right at top of screen, and the same at the bottom, they will be different !
I'm glad I've still got the trinitron, the lcd is out for now. Until a manufacturer comes out with a model that guarantees uniformity and colour to the standard of trinitrons/flat screen crt's, I'm staying put. And to think that Sony stop manufacturing a perfect photo/graphics monitor for aesthetics and inferior picture. Yes, the lcd's look terrific on the desk, and picture-wise great for surfing and gaming and general not critical stuff, but for photo editing or graphics no-way hose'. I'm surprised that manufacturers and reveiwers don't even mention the non-uniformity aspect. Very dissapointed.

[guns1inger]

New technology is supposed to be an improvement over the old isn't it ?

Is it ? ask anyone who bought a so-called HDTV 3 - 4 years ago.

At the present time, much of this is change for the sake of change, not because of a real need.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I love my Trinitron CRT monitor especially since I can change the resolution correctly - i.e, no fixed native resolution therefore no yukky rescaling. Also, black is black. You can't beat the contrast ratio. I can run it at 60i so that interlaced video plays correctly.

I'd give my right arm (easier as I'm a leftie) to get a true CRT 1080i 16:9 display so my HDV footage will be seen as it is supposed to be. Anyone heard of such a thing?

[cyflyer]

You can't beat the contrast ratio

Yeah, but notice on the high end lcd's like the Lg 1900R I got they're touting 3000:1 contrast ratios (or 2000:1 depending on where you see the specs) which you might think is pretty decend. (is that at the top or bottom of the screen ??? !)
What I can't understand is, how comes they haven't overcome this luminosity problem from top to bottom, what is it that causes it that's beyond they're ablities to solve it ? I haven't noticed if TV's actually do that also ??
Weren't Samsung developing CRT's but in a very flat compact version as TV's or monitors ?

[jagabo]

[quote="cyflyer"]

What I can't understand is, how comes they haven't overcome this luminosity problem from top to bottom, what is it that causes it that's beyond they're ablities to solve it ?

It's hard to completely clamp the polarized light to create black while at the same time having a wide viewing angle, good switching time, and an affordable price.

[cyflyer]

Just to round off, I eventually sold off the new lcd, and stayed with the Trinitron. For the sake of 'ergonomics/aesthetics', I compromised and spray painted black the Trinitrons' white casing to match the computer. (yes, I did remember to mask off the screen area carefully ! ) Not a bad result actually !

I'll consider lcd in the future when they've improved the weaknesses, and I hear of one thats truelly a match for my current picture quality. If anyone finds one, please let us know.

[DereX888]

In the past almost all CRT screens were set with oversaturated colors by most manufacturers, often accompanied by contrast set to max too (I guess the idea was to "distinguish" theirs with "richer colors" from the competition). Many people get used to it, since most of people never change default settings of their TVs - I can give an example most of my friends loving their "deep orange faces" on the CRTs in the past, and if you change the saturation to have the faces in more natural colors they hated it LOL
I remember S*ony CRTs (nevertheless great trinitron) always were set by default with too much blue hue setting - I guess that was S*ny's way of distinguishing their product from the others

Similar thing happens nowadays with LCDs. Manufacturers set them up as bright as it gets. Almost every LCD has brightness and contrast above 90% of its settings by default.

Its just ridiculus.

Anyways, everyone need to properly set and calibrate their monitor every once a while, there's no doubt about it... just my 0.02

[TimA-C]

New technology is supposed to be an improvement over the old isn't it ?

Is it ? ask anyone who bought a so-called HDTV 3 - 4 years ago.

At the present time, much of this is change for the sake of change, not because of a real need.

Not so much for the sake of change, more to do with the manufacturers needing to recoup some of their HUGE development costs.

[jagabo]

Not so much for the sake of change, more to do with the manufacturers needing to recoup some of their HUGE development costs.

If there was no change there would be no development costs. The real reason the industry is switching to LCD is fashion. Thin is in. And bright is right!

[Kayembee]

JohnnyMalaria wrote:
> I'd give my right arm (easier as I'm a leftie) to get a true CRT
> 1080i 16:9 display so my HDV footage will be seen as it is
> supposed to be. Anyone heard of such a thing?

Sort of. Our secondary HDTV is a Panasonic CT-34WX53. It's
a 34" direct view CRT, 16:9, 1080i. But:

1) I'm pretty sure it's a discontinued model.
2) I'm sure horizontal rez isn't a full 1920 (it's a CRT).
3) It probably overscans; if so, that can't be turned off.

If that's good enough, I suspect you could get it or an
equivalent set on EBay. Dunno whether sets like this are still
manufactured, though. I think we bought it in 2004.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Thanks, Kayembee.

Since posting my plea, I have tracked down a number of them from various manufacturers. Now I have a automatic search running on eBay....

[rallynavvie]

You know it's funny you bring up the idea of a "preview" monitor in this new age of HD film. I still have a little Panasonic cage CRT for a preview monitor but since going to HDV and LCD displays I think the idea of a "preview out" monitor doesn't matter anymore. If you're authoring for HD displays then they will more than likely be digital displays which are essentially the same gamut as our LCD displays (if not completely identical).

[cyflyer]

My only dread now, after this voyage of re-discovery, is that something terminal will go wrong with the Trinitron that will force me to look at current offerings. Thats why I need to stay alert to current offerings/developments.
I'm still curious about Samsung, they had crt technology, but in a semi-slim version that was sold as a Tv, and I thought were developing as a monitor.