Intel retail cpu & thermal paste....

[kenmo]

Just purchased an Intel retail boxed E2180 with heat sink. Do I use thermal paste on the bottom of the heatsink? Reading the Intel manual there is no mention of paste. Looking underside of the heat sink it appears to be already there - a light grey-beige smear.

I do have some OZ silver paste that I've used on my non-retail Intel & AMD builds but this is the first retail Intel chip I've purchased...

TIA

[driguy]

What I've done in the past is use 99% isopropyl alchohol to clean off the old thermal paste and put on some new stuff. The OZ paste you have should be better than what's on your heatsink right now... I wouldn't trust any thermal paste that's already on the heatsink, I would clean it off and begin anew.

[Krispy Kritter]

The paste already on the cpu will be fine. While it's usually not as efficient, it is included in the retail box warranty. So it's guaranteed to work.

[TBoneit]

My thoughts exactly, the heatsink assembly and compound is guaranteed by Intel to work with the CPU in a retail box. You have a three year limited warranty from intel. Why give them an out in case of failure by not using their provided solution.

[DarrellS]

I just installed a 935 Pentium D on an Intel DG965WH MB with stock heatsink and fan with compound already on it and it is running extremely hot. 68* to 85* C (almost 200* F) at idle. I'm afraid to do anything on it. Not sure if the software is reading it right or not. I'm running two front intake fans, a back exhaust fan and I installed an exhaust fan where the horn was on the side of the case since the CPU fan hardly moves the air at all. My P4 CPU fan blew the air out the horn pretty good.

The air coming out feels pretty cool which makes me think the software is reading it wrong.

This board isn't mean't for Windows 2000 which I'm running although it has the W2K drivers on the CD. You have to browse the CD to install them. The onboard audio driver was all messed up (all the controls were wrong) so it's possible that the desktop utilities software is messed up too. I'd hate to be wrong though and burn up the new processor.

[hech54]

I just installed a 935 Pentium D on an Intel DG965WH MB with stock heatsink and fan with compound already on it and it is running extremely hot. 68* to 85* C (almost 200* F) at idle. I'm afraid to do anything on it.

And people wonder why other people are reluctant to "build your own" computer.

[nonoitall]

The air coming out feels pretty cool which makes me think the software is reading it wrong.

If the air coming out of the case is cool, that means heat is not being conducted away from the internal components. I was using stock thermal paste on my CPU for a while and then reseated it with some Arctic Silver. The CPU started running a few degrees cooler and the air coming out the back got a bit warmer. That's just how heat works - it has to go somewhere or it stays in the same place.

[Nelson37]

To the op - Absolutely no reason to void your Warranty. Intel says the stock is OK and they are willing to bet several hundred dollars on that statement. How much do you want to gamble?

DarrelS - Two possibilities. Either your fan is defective or mounted improperly, or the software is lying to you. Most BIOS have a heat monitor section, your Win2k issue is eliminated by using the BIOS firmware. My guess would be either the fan is running too slow or the heat sink is not firmly mounted.

[dfisher052]

If it's a 775 socket make sure it's installed properly. The first time I installed mine it wasn't & had a heat and noise problem. I scraped off the pre-installed paste & used OZ silver & made sure it was now installed right & got rid of both heat & noise. It now runs quite & about 30 degrees cooler.

[DarrellS]

Thanks guys, seems the fan had come loose. I retightened it and the temperature came down a little. It still peaks around 81* C but I can hear the fans speed up and the temperature drops to around 60* C. It was running around 54* C when I first reseated it so it might be trying to come loose again. It's not giving me constant alerts like it was though. I'll try encoding a small file and see what happens.

The 775 fan bracket sucks. Once the 478 was clipped on, it was almost impossible to get back off.

EDIT: Encoded a short 720x480 clip and it ran at a constant 87* C and dropped to 60* after encode. My 478 P4 never ran over 144* F and usually ran around 100* F. I assume that's between 35* C and 65* C?

I tried using speedfan but it doesn't seem to want to run on this board. It reads the HD temps and that's all.

[redwudz]

It's really difficult to get some coolers attached when the motherboard is in the case. Make absolutely sure the clips are properly attached because if the CPU burns up, I wouldn't bet Intel would honor your warranty anyway if they knew it wasn't attached properly. Use a small mirror if needed to see the clips and if the cooler is fully seated. Or spend a few minutes and pull the MB out of the case and make the project a lot easier and safer.

I would forget about the warranty myself and get a proper cooler, something more efficient. Use a good quality thermal compound and attach the cooler properly. It's a lot less likely to burn up with a better cooler and then your warranty question wouldn't matter.

A quick way to check to see if your temperatures are being read correctly is to use the tip of you finger at the base of the CPU cooler with the computer at 100% CPU. If you burn your finger, it's too hot. About 120F (~50C) won't burn you but it will make you remove your finger fairly quickly.

Also when running in BIOS, the CPU will run hotter than when the OS is running. Try a software program to read your temps instead. Try this one from CPU-Z: http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php

BTW, if your cooler came loose and you reseated it, the thermal compound is probably messed up now. Besides, if you 'cook' that compound at high temperatures, it's effectiveness will usually decrease.

Do it once, do it right.

[DarrellS]

I'll try all your suggestions redwudz and thanks for the link to the monitor.

Like I said in my edit, my other CPU ran alot cooler than this.

[DereX888]

I'll try all your suggestions redwudz and thanks for the link to the monitor.

Like I said in my edit, my other CPU ran alot cooler than this.

I think you have exactly same problem as I had once ages ago.
The CPU was always running hot around 70C even at idle, no matter what. I've tried bigger fans etc etc, finally I gave up and installed another CPU (exactly same P3 model, same lot) and everything was fine.
Intel have never replaced that 'hot one' for me.

Also keep in mind not all temerature monitors work perfectly with every kind of motherboard sensors.
In general they do and 'adjust' themselves upon ssensor detection, but I remember one mobo from Asus, I think it was first P4T (great mobo nevertheless) it had something wrong with the thermal readings from CPU and it had to be corrected 'manually' in the software many degrees less than it showed

And people wonder why other people are reluctant to "build your own" computer.

Obviously there are many people who should NOT build their own computers (blind, without hands, without arms, paralyzed, etc etc...). And for physically fit and normal people it still requires few working brain cells in the skull to accomplish this simple task.
So - yes you're right - it is not for everyone.

[Alan69]

Just a note, the thermal grease isn't that heat conductive. It's only there to fill in the gaps, you want good heatsink to chip carrier contact, with it filling in the tiny irregularities. So you don't want a blob of grease sitting in the middle and the heatsink sitting on it and not even really touching the chip.

I put the heatsink down, rotate it back and forth slightly to work the grease out to the edges and get good contact, then connect the mounting. If you lift it up it will come away unevenly, so if you don't then put it down exactly right you can get air pockets between the chip and heatsink. IOW do this and mount it, don't keep picking it up to look under..

Arctic Silver etc you're supposed to be able to put a small dot (think it was 1/2 BB size) in the center and it'll wick out to the edges. I still do the spreading mechanically by rotating and sliding a bit, just don't trust anything to really wick out like they say as well as making sure it goes out.. The way I do it I know that little bit went everywhere, and there's mostly great heatsink to carrier/chip contact.

In a way AMD's thermal pad is a lot easier for most people. Not as good as a good grease, but very simple to get it right..

High readings and cool air definitely sounds like poor conduction, sounds like it needs reseating.. Some motherboards do read off (my Biostar 7050..), usually due to a switch in sensors and they haven't adjusted the bios yet..

[budz]

As redwudz pointed out getting a HSF that's more efficient is the best to use. I use aftermarket Cooler Master HSF's for all computers that I've built when using INTEL C2D processors. They're reasonably priced and keeps the cpu cool. I use Artic Silver Ceramique.

[DarrellS]

I reseated the fan with artic silver and it's running a little cooler.

At idle it was at 52* C and right now I'm using musicmatch jukebox to listen to a CD and on the internet and it's running at a constant 64* C.

I tried using the monitor that Redwudz suggested and it's the same as Speedfan. It only reads the hard drives. I couldn't feel much heat coming from the CPU before I replaced the grease so I have a strong feeling that the reading is off. I'll uninstall the Intel monitor and see if the other monitors will work.

I looked for a BIOS update at Intel but it doesn't support Windows 2000 so I'm not sure it will help and to be honest, BIOS updates scare the hell out of me. I almost killed my MSI board with a BIOS update when I first got it. Luckily at the time I was able to flash it back.

I'll have to wait till the first of the month to get a new fan since I spent everything trying to get this thing back up and running. Hard building computers when your only income is SSA-Disability. Sure miss those plumber wages.

[DereX888]

I looked for a BIOS update at Intel but it doesn't support Windows 2000 so I'm not sure it will help and to be honest, BIOS updates scare the hell out of me. I almost killed my MSI board with a BIOS update when I first got it. Luckily at the time I was able to flash it back.

What do you mean?
BIOS itself is operating systems unaware and completely unrelated, its just the installer they used for this update maybe doesnt support W2K, thats all (which i still doubt... it probably run fine on 2000 too).
At worst get the ROM file (extract it from installer if not available separately) and a loader for your type that can be run from DOS and flash your BIOS that way with latest ROM file using Win9x boot diskette (or make it bootable CDRW if you have no floppy drive).

[DarrellS]

OK. Now I'm confused.

I was under the assumption that the CPU temp should be around 34* C but after reading a data sheet, it said that my Pentium D processor should be between 50* and 80* C.

My brother installed the motherboard probe software for his ASUS board and it said that his CPU temp for his 3.0 P4 should read between 50* and 80* C and it is running the same as mine. His fan runs faster at around 2800 rpm while mine only runs at 1100 rpm. We're both running a stock Intel heatsink and fan.

I had to wipeout my HD and reinstall the OS since it named my system drive E: for some reason and I downloaded and installed the Desktop Utilities (since it doesn't install on W2K from the disk) and everything seems to be running alright. The temps are in the range listed above (50* C and 80* C) and the alert doesn't come on like it was. I wish the fan ran faster at idle but it stays around 1100 rpm until it gets up above 65* C and spins up around 2800 rpm and around 4500 rpm when it gets around 75* C.

I still want to get a better heatsink and fan at the first of the month, probably a Zalman CNPS9700 with heatpipes since it's in the top 5 on frosty tech but am wondering if I was getting bothered over nothing with the temperature range I am getting.

[glockjs]

the hsf and paste thats comes in the retail box is absolute garbage. go figure i have the exact same chip as you but i oc'd mine to 3.03 ghz@1.43 vcore and my loads are lucky to reach 50C....the people that use the stock hsf because of the warranty have lost their damn mind. im using pretty much the cheapest solution out there too. AS5 paired with this hsf:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186134

food for thought. gl.

[DarrellS]

$22 is pretty cheap for a good cooler. I think that it's the first one that I looked at. It moves the air at a pretty decent rate (45 cfm). I'm running an Intel 935 3.2Ghz Pentium D. Most of the reviews that I've seen on this CPU says it runs hot with the stock heatsink and fan. I think the biggest problem is that I can't control the fan speed. It would probably run below 50* C if I could get the fan to run faster but the MB software wants to keep the fan speed below 1500 rpm.

The site that I saw the top 10 coolers listed...

http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

...has the Coolermaster Hyper 212 rated pretty high also. I can get both the Coolermaster and the Zalman at Fry's Electronics.

The 3RSystem Iceage 120 looks pretty impressive also with the heatpipes directly contacting the CPU.

I eventually want to get a fast Core2Duo so I don't mind spending a little more to protect my investment.

[budz]

If you get the Cooler Master Hyper 212 make sure you have enough room in your computer case. I just used a Cooler Master Hyper TX 2 for a computer I built for a relative. I had to remove the power supply so I could have enough room to ease the hsf securely. I know it's a bitch but you may have to remove your motherboard from the case to install it securely. I was lazy so the next best thing for me was to remove the power supply.

[Nelson37]

There is a reason Intel bets their dollars that the stock fan is good for three years. That's because they are. Overclocking throws all that out the window, no warranty anyway.

When you have a significant investment in the chip, if you are paying extra for the boxed set, what you are paying for is that three-year warranty. I have ALWAYS used these for paying customers. Number of in-warranty fried Intel or AMD chips with stock coolers, properly installed and not overclocked? 0. That's Zero, going back to 1988. Number of aftermarket coolers causing major failure within three years of new? At least half a dozen or more, with AMD being a little more represented here. More folks using AMD on the lowend of the market, cheaper stuff fails more often, generally.

If you refuse to use the stock fan, then at least don't pay extra for it. Note that price difference, that is what Intel thinks the extra two years of warranty are worth.

Some BIOS are set for low-noise rather than better cooling, usually fan RPM or temp thresholds can be changed.

It's your money, use it the way you want to. I would use the stock cooler at least for a year or two, and then only change to overclock. I don't overclock until the value of the chip has dropped so the economics and risk make more sense.

[glockjs]

upgrading the heat sink to better with better theramal paste causing "major failure" makes zero sense....heat=wear and the cooler you run your chip is less wear on the cpu and mobo. maybe you just bought sh$% hsf in the past i dont know. ive used aftermarket for years now and no problem. i mean you're looking at a 20-30c drop in temps by using a quality aftermarket. i dunno thats just me. but again i dont by sh#$ products.

[yoda313]

side question here - I'm upgrading to a dual core amd processor from a single core on an asus motherboard (stock hp pc so I don't know the exact details). Would it be better to get a new fan for the new chip? Also what about a powersuply? Mine is a 300watt factory installed model. Should I go higher? What is a recommended wattage for a dual core chip? And what exactly is a heatsink?

[budz]

side question here - I'm upgrading to a dual core amd processor from a single core on an asus motherboard (stock hp pc so I don't know the exact details). Would it be better to get a new fan for the new chip? Also what about a powersuply? Mine is a 300watt factory installed model. Should I go higher? What is a recommended wattage for a dual core chip? And what exactly is a heatsink?

This is a picture of a cpu heatsink w/fan.



I'm running a Antec 500 watt Power supply w/my Intel core 2 duo stock cpu 2.13ghz overclocked to 2.66ghz using a Cooler Master cpu heatsink fan. That pc has 3 hard drives, pci-e Ati 300se 128mb video card, (2) 120mm case fans and 4 dvd burners.

Temporarily I have a small 300 watt ps with my Allendale E2160 core 2 duo cpu overclocked to 3.00ghz using a Cooler Master cpu hsf as well. Also w/3 hard drives, pci-e Ati 300se 128mb video card, (2) 120mm case fans & 4 dvd burners. So far this pc runs fine w/only 300 watts. I'm ordering a new enermax 500 watt ps since my fairly new Antec 500 watt ps was a dud.

[yoda313]

Thanks budz. can you position a heatsink on any side of the fan? My chip buts up to the powersupply on one side. Three sides are essentially open but one is right next to the psu.

Also are there power scale suggestions for each processor?

[budz]

Thanks budz. can you position a heatsink on any side of the fan? My chip buts up to the powersupply on one side. Three sides are essentially open but one is right next to the psu.

Also are there power scale suggestions for each processor?

The picture I posted is similar to the one I installed on a newly built pc I did for a relative. It was my first time installing a cpu cooler with the fan facing forward instead of upwards. Supposedly it would also cool the ram as well. As far as power scale suggestions there was/is a website you can use to determine how much power you would need. Try google to see if you can find one. If you're only going to have 2 hard drives, 2 dvd burners and 2-3 case fans I'd say 350-400 watts is sufficient. The pc I built last weekend has 3 hard drives (1 pata & 2 sata), (2) 120mm case fans, 1 dvd-rom and 1 dvd burner with a Antec 350 Basiq ps.

[yoda313]

Thanks budz. I only have a 300 watt currently - 2 dvd and 2 harddrives, 1 case fan.

I'm thinking of buying a 400-500watt supply.

Thanks.

[TBoneit]

Well You can try it and see if the 300 watt cuts it.

IMHO many are using much larger power supplies than needed. I say this from working as a technician in the same computer store since 1996. A+ certification, I was thinking of switching jobs one time and they wanted that (yeah I know) and Telecommunications diploma. And oh yes did I mention 11 years working for the same store, There is a lot to be said for a 5 - 6 minute commute on mostly local streets after the morning rush and after the evening rush have ended. Live in Central Jersey and you'll know why I say that.

Example 65watt AMD dual core, Lowend Video card or built in video.
1 Hard drive, 1 Optical drive. There is a place on the Asus website that has a power needed calculator.

I just assembled a computer for a customer recently.

Decent Case & PS (300Watt). Good solid metal (heavy too)
Intel E6750
Intel Mobo Full size
Burner
Hard drive
1 Gb
Customers supplied parts. Solid as a rock.
The new dual cores use so much less power and generate so much less heat that it becomes easy to make a quiet cool running computer. Saving energy with the new dual cores versus the older power hogs can make the ROI a moderately short time.

I within the last year stripped my computer way down. I had a older P4 3Ghz. Lots of internal drives and External drives. CD Burner, DVD burner, DVD-Rom Floppy etc. Lots of fans and noise.

Now a AMD 4200+ Dual core, 2 Hard drives for encodes. 1 DVD Burner (External and off if not needed. Only Powers supply fan. It isn't that I'm trying to be Green. Only frugal.

Now with the dual core and faster Internet the computer isn't running 12 hours a day and encoding overnight for example. Now it may get turned on and I've done it all in 2 - 3 hours. 1 Screen for TV and Computer display instead of powering two of them.

To summarize the 300 watt P/S if decent quality will be more than adequate. If you are really curious look up the power consumption of you single core CPU vs the Dual Core CPU.

Good luck. Nothing like getting it done quickly and efficiently.

[yoda313]

To summarize the 300 watt P/S if decent quality will be more than adequate. If you are really curious look up the power consumption of you single core CPU vs the Dual Core

Interesting. I hadn't considered that side of it. Since I dont' have a replacement yet I will hold off on the new power supply. Thanks for the insight tboneit.