NEWS: Universal switches to Blu-Ray, real end of HDDVD?

[videopoo]

Well, if I was Disney, I sure would not want some porn title to accidentally show up in one of my animated feature release cases . . . .

Rich is correct...thats the reason why. There are several BD porn titles out now from Vivid and Digital Playground.

[rcguy1]

It's a big world out there and there is plenty of room for both formats. I predict more dual format players and much lower prices within a year or two. I own a Sony PS3, Sony 60" hdtv,Sony Camcorder and a Sony digital camera. Their customer service is horrible but their products are top of the line. The only recurrent problems I have with home electronics are with my PC's and I do not own Sonys. Most problems are caused by Bill Gates and his crappy operating system!

[rcguy1]

Blu-Ray, HD-DVD who cares. It's a big world out there and room for both formats. The movie studios want to save money and not produce both formats thus screwing us, the consumer.

[ViRaL1]

Blu-Ray, HD-DVD who cares. It's a big world out there and room for both formats. The movie studios want to save money and not produce both formats thus screwing us, the consumer.

...because the consumer DESERVES both formats? This was a partisan battle from GO and it was inevitable from the stakes that one side would lose. Anyone who invested early should have known that. Why would a company want to support both formats? Those that did were just hedging their bets, it wasn't a move made to help the consumer.

[jman98]

I cannot imagine what use anyone has for HD-DVD playing capabilities if there is no content to play in the machine.

home-made movies -

I bought the Toshiba HD AD-30 in late December when it was on sale, right before the Warner Brothers announcement to abandon the format

The AD-30 will NOT play HD DVD content on DVD-9 discs, even though the format explicitly allows for such. I have a DVD-9 test disc that contains HD DVD content. It plays fine on a PC with PowerDVD 6.5, which supports HD DVD playback. The AD-30 won't touch it. It's a firmware issue. Note also that the player could, in theory, support VCD and SVCD playback if the firmware allowed it. The player is incapable of playing PAL video and there is no multi-region support for it either. I wish HD DVD had won for a variety of reasons, but Toshiba is a moronic company and they botched the chances they had to make a consumer friendly player.

[bbanderic]

I don't know why I read these threads sometimes, it seems that 90% of the comments are from either bitter HD-DVD fanboys or Sony haters offering absolutely no logic to the discussion.

I'd like to preface my comments by saying that I'm a recent PS3/blu-ray adapter, pre-Warner decision. I chose Blu-ray because of their majority of support from the studios AND hardware manufacturers, fully realizing that in the end only one format will survive and that there was a chance that it may not be Blu-ray.

Having said that, I have absolutely nothing against HD-DVD, it would have been much easier to go with HD-DVD as most of the players, if not all of them were profile 2.0 compliant from the beginning, unlike Blu-ray. At the time, Blu-ray only had profile 1.0 players on the market and were more expensive. The reason I went with the PS3 is that it was bug free and future proof, upgradable to profile 2.0 via firmware updates. In the end though, the lack of hardware support (Toshiba the only HD-DVD manufacturer) combined with the majority of studio support and software sales, swayed me to BD.

HD-DVD....For those folks who think that the format war isn't over are in SERIOUS denial. HD-DVD is a dead format, no way in hell the B&M stores will continue to stock the software long term and that's if it's still supported long term. Make no mistake, Universal and Paramount will support Blu-ray by years end, if not much sooner. No way they will stay exclusive to a format that has less than 30% of studio support. Also, don't count on BD exclusive supporters to switch sides, at this point in time there is no benefit to the studios to have this format war continue.

BD hardware...This is the downside of Blu-ray at this time due to the lack of profile 1.1, 2.0 players and pricepoint. But, they're coming. All of the new players coming on line this year will be either profile 1.1 or 2.0. Right now, the best options for Blu-ray players is the Panasonic BD-30K (1.1) and the PS3 (currently profile 1.1 will be upgraded to profile 2.0 via firmware in the future). As far as price, I think the players will come down just as DVD players did in time.

BD copy protection...This is a non-issue IMO, last time I checked DVD's have copy protection as well, it was cracked and so will BD copy protection. Those who have frequented this website for a while now know this to be the case.

SONY....If you're not a fan of Sony or their customer support, nothing's preventing you from buying a player from another manufacturer. Unlike HD-DVD, there are many to choose from, Pioneer, Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung and Funai (budget model due this year).

Software....In 2007 BD has sold more software than HD-DVD by a reported 2:1 margin despite the cheaper HD-DVD players.

Reason for the majority of studio support for BD....People have commented that Warner and others were paid by Sony for their exclusive support, who cares! I don't know the real reason the studios chose BD but at the end of the day these studios are all about profits. For whatever reason they think BD will make them more money, the 2:1 margin of software sales are a good indication of that.

Future of Blu-ray....I think it's here to stay for quite a while, along with (standard) DVD. Will it ever reach the market share of DVD, most likely not. I think HD downloads is the future but I think it's a long ways away (lack of bandwidth). Even still, BD will still survive IMO for those who prefer to have a "hard copy" of their favorite movies. This idea of a new (third) HDM format coming available in the next year or so to compete with BD is a pipe dream of bitter HD-DVD supporters, it's not going to happen.

[marvel2020]

I thought that most of the recent films are getting released of both formats anyway.

The other question you have to ask yourself is what will the difference if the current HD-DVD movies that are not on BR.........BE?.

I mean will thay make use of the BR higher capacity, say a current HD_DVD is 28GB in size will it be the same on BR or will it be bigger ?.

This reminds me of the DVD+R vs DVD-r argument a few years back, when it seem that everyone was voting for the DVD+R being the better format, but both are still here and both are still selling.

Anyway I've never liked Sony both as a Brand and a Electronics company and I never will, and like someone else has mentioned elsewhere on the fourm it''s only a matter of time before BR+ is cracked

[jagabo]

Last gasp?

"Tosh slashes prices on HD DVD players... HD-A3 has dropped to $150, the HD-A30 (1080p) to $200, and the HD-A35 to $300"

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/14/tosh-slashes-prices-hd-dvd

[Rich86]

I cannot imagine what use anyone has for HD-DVD playing capabilities if there is no content to play in the machine.

home-made movies -

I bought the Toshiba HD AD-30 in late December when it was on sale, right before the Warner Brothers announcement to abandon the format

The AD-30 will NOT play HD DVD content on DVD-9 discs, even though the format explicitly allows for such. I have a DVD-9 test disc that contains HD DVD content. It plays fine on a PC with PowerDVD 6.5, which supports HD DVD playback. The AD-30 won't touch it. It's a firmware issue. Note also that the player could, in theory, support VCD and SVCD playback if the firmware allowed it. The player is incapable of playing PAL video and there is no multi-region support for it either. I wish HD DVD had won for a variety of reasons, but Toshiba is a moronic company and they botched the chances they had to make a consumer friendly player.

I also have a HD-A30. So far it has played everything I have thrown at it just fine, although it does struggle a bit with audio cd's burned to rw media (same as Blu-Ray players from what I have read - maybe this has something to do with the laser setup to handle high def content). The HD-DVD format is region free, by definition - so that is not an issue. However, I expect the device follows the rules regarding regions on standard definition dvd's. I can't speak to the dvd-9 issue, since I have no idea if any of the titles I have played are dvd-9 or not. I've also updated the firmware in the player to the latest - V. 1.3.

[Rich86]

I don't know why I read these threads sometimes, it seems that 90% of the comments are from either bitter HD-DVD fanboys or Sony haters offering absolutely no logic to the discussion.

BD copy protection...This is a non-issue IMO, last time I checked DVD's have copy protection as well, it was cracked and so will BD copy protection. Those who have frequented this website for a while now know this to be the case.

SONY....If you're not a fan of Sony or their customer support, nothing's preventing you from buying a player from another manufacturer. Unlike HD-DVD, there are many to choose from, Pioneer, Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung and Funai (budget model due this year).

Well, I'm not bitter - although a bit disillusioned about Warner after they offer sale prices during the Christmas shopping season, then pull the rug out right after New Year's on their HD-DVD customers.

I have no illusions about the future of HD-DVD. It is in a major down cycle due to studios abandoning it in favor of Blu Ray. These are not customer choices - rather studio choices. I have decided to keep my HD-A30 since it works really well, I am enjoying my HD-DVD discs, the player is a superb standard def upconverting player, and Amazon has provided price matching for me resulting in another $50 discount on the player on top of buying it on sale before Christmas due to the recent drop in the msrp. I am keeping my eyes out for bargains on software content and doing quite well. The stack of 10 free titles alone makes it worth while.

I have no intentions of getting into Blu Ray in any hurry (note I did not say "never"). I distrust Sony's attitude and customer support commitment. My problem with their copy protection phobia is it requires firmware updates to their Blu Ray players to play newer titles when they switch encoding around when the current coding has been cracked. This is all fine and dandy, as long as the manufacturer of your particular player actually creates and releases the newly required firmware. Sony is the worst at it, as they abandon support to their products at the drop of a hat. Picture Blu Ray players that have no firmware updates available that cannot play new releases. Picture Mom & Dad or your non computer literate best friend trying to figure out why their new disc won't play - and what firmware is . . .

[yoda313]

your non computer literate best friend trying to figure out why their new disc won't play - and what firmware is . . .

No problem they can pay 5 or 6 dollars in shipping and wait a month for a firmware disc to be mailed to them

[lordsmurf]

, when it seem that everyone was voting for the DVD+R being the better format,

I don't think so.

A few reviews were swayed by vaporware features that never happened. The masses were most pleased with DVD-R because it worked in more equipment, and at the time cost a lot less (about $1 per disc less, in many cases, buying online).

DVD+R/DVD-R is not at all relevant to HD-DVD v. BD-ROM. Different tech, not different flavors of tech (a la DVD blanks).

[TheFamilyMan]

I'd hope that if the blu-ray player firmware is really going to be this volatile, that they'd simply include the required firmware install on the same movie disk that requires the new firmware. But nah, greed will prevail: we'll have to pay extra for that firmware upgrade and not only that, it will eventually be distributed on encryted disks to prevent hacks!

[Shocker Milwaukee]

THE RESULT ???

people will rent BD and back it up on HD....

That's right.

[Midzuki]

Well, if I was Disney, I sure would not want some porn title to accidentally show up in one of my animated feature release cases . . . .

Something like this

[SmokieStover]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do remember seeing a press release from Universal dated January 6, 2008 pushing HD-DVD.

Show me some facts.

[bbanderic]

your non computer literate best friend trying to figure out why their new disc won't play - and what firmware is . . .

No problem they can pay 5 or 6 dollars in shipping and wait a month for a firmware disc to be mailed to them

Are you guys trying to say that HD-DVD players don't need firmware updates? I'm fairly certain they need them as well to play certain movies/bug fixes.

You're right though, right now, if you don't do your research you very well may end up with a profile 1.0 player that may have issues with certain discs. I would definitely stay away from those players, most 2007 models and prior. However, all of the new 2008 models will be either 1.1 or 2.0 which will alleviate that problem considerably.

[videopoo]

Those pictures of "Recuers" Crack me up. I was the guy delegated to remove those pictures back in 1995 from the transfer masters. I took me three days to do what now takes 3 hours - if that.

[DereX888]

The future of DVD-Video format was decided and sealed when Chinese govt. (chinese manufacturers of dvd-video players) received partial exemption from paying royalties for using DVD format. The stiff royalties were main reason for Chinese to research alternatives like China Video Disc (CVD) and Super Video Compact Disc (SVCD), the latter designed for Chinese Govt. by Philips - one of the main DVD-Video "backers"
Up until that moment in 2001, five long years since its release, the future of DVD-Video was not so sure. Yes, by then the format took over North America and Europe, but it struggled in Asia (which currently accounts for almost half of the world-wide DVD-Video disc users) and if the chinese manufacturers would have not received lowered royalty fees they probably would have quit or limit at best production of the cheap dvd-video players, probably replacing them with CVD/SVCD/VCD players (or some another alternative). That would change the world marketings of DVD-Video, and everything as we know most likely would be different.
Asia itself is today already larger market for consumer electronic goods than USA+EU combined (unlike in the early DVD-Video days).
The "loss" of HD-DVD to BR-DVD among major Hollywood backers in USA alone is irrelevant, albeit it does apply some pressure on other issues indeed.
Yet the final decision which high-def format is going to stay and which one will be gone, is yet to be 'sealed' there in Asia, by that I mean China herself. What format they decide to 'back' will be the one to stay, because they are the ones who will make it cheap for all of us.

[Rich86]

your non computer literate best friend trying to figure out why their new disc won't play - and what firmware is . . .

No problem they can pay 5 or 6 dollars in shipping and wait a month for a firmware disc to be mailed to them

Are you guys trying to say that HD-DVD players don't need firmware updates? I'm fairly certain they need them as well to play certain movies/bug fixes.

The discussion centered around Sony's obsession with copy protection to the point where Blu Ray players will refuse to play new titles without firmware mod's - and although firmware updates are made available to improve the functionality of the HD-DVD players - there are no firmware requirements having to do with copy protection with the HD-DVD format.

[ebenton]

And while even the cheapest HD-DVD player can be connected to the internet, only the more-expensive, high-end Blu-Ray players have this capability.
(Can you believe that a Blu-Ray player costing less than $400 is considered "low-end"?)

[rcguy1]

ViRaL1, what I meant to say," the studios are screwing the consumer by not supporting both formats," because the consumers who have already purchased the HD DVD format players are tha ones who willl be left holding the bag. As I have said, I went with the PS3 a month after it came on the market mainly because of the BLu-Ray player and 50 gig disc capacity. I'm not much of a gamer and store all my digital pictures, CD music, play Blu-Ray movies from Netflix and use the PS3 as a backup computer to pay my online bills. Also I upgraded my PS3's hard drive from fhe 60 gig that came with it to a 160 gig and did not void Sony's PS3 warrantee. Next time I'll make my statements more clear. Russ

[bbanderic]

your non computer literate best friend trying to figure out why their new disc won't play - and what firmware is . . .

No problem they can pay 5 or 6 dollars in shipping and wait a month for a firmware disc to be mailed to them

Are you guys trying to say that HD-DVD players don't need firmware updates? I'm fairly certain they need them as well to play certain movies/bug fixes.

The discussion centered around Sony's obsession with copy protection to the point where Blu Ray players will refuse to play new titles without firmware mod's - and although firmware updates are made available to improve the functionality of the HD-DVD players - there are no firmware requirements having to do with copy protection with the HD-DVD format.

Do you have a link about Sony's copy protection obsession being the cause of Blu-rays refusal to play certain discs? You may be right, but I haven't heard of that.

I do know that many of the profile 1.0 players have trouble with some of the newer BD-Java discs which has nothing to do with copy protection.

Maybe HD-DVD's lack of copy protection is one of the reasons for the lack of studio support. As far as Sony's obsession with copy protection....isn't it quite possible that it's the movie studios' obsession and Sony is just trying to give their customers (the studios) what they want?

I don't want to sound like a Sony fanboy because I'm not, I don't love them or hate them, I could care less who's making the players, I'm just trying to be logical. In fact, I try to stay away from their product because more often than not they're overpriced. The only reason I have a PS3 is because the Blu-ray functionality is rock solid and the unit is future proof. I also picked it up for $299 with the $100 off Sony CC deal.

[MJPollard]

This whole nonsense about firmware upgrades is one of the (many) reasons why I'm staying with standard DVDs, which have long passed the "stick 'em in any machine and they'll play" point. Try explaining to Ma and Pa Kettle what a firmware upgrade is, let alone why they'll need one every time the format is enhanced or a disc is cracked (thereby necessitating an upgrade to "lock out" those cracked discs). They'll hit you in the head with their pitchfork and go back to posing in their American Gothic painting!

Most of us here (myself included) are savvy enough to handle firmware upgrades, but the point is that they shouldn't be necessary on a piece of electronic equipment aimed at the average consumer. HD discs, be it Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, or some other format, are going to have a hard time gaining loyalty with the average consumer until and unless they reach DVD's no-brainer "stick it in and play" point... and with firmware upgrades actually factored into the current HD disc formats, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Just my adjusted-for-inflation $.02...

[bbanderic]

This whole nonsense about firmware upgrades is one of the (many) reasons why I'm staying with standard DVDs, which have long passed the "stick 'em in any machine and they'll play" point. Try explaining to Ma and Pa Kettle what a firmware upgrade is, let alone why they'll need one every time the format is enhanced or a disc is cracked (thereby necessitating an upgrade to "lock out" those cracked discs). They'll hit you in the head with their pitchfork and go back to posing in their American Gothic painting!

Most of us here (myself included) are savvy enough to handle firmware upgrades, but the point is that they shouldn't be necessary on a piece of electronic equipment aimed at the average consumer. HD discs, be it Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, or some other format, are going to have a hard time gaining loyalty with the average consumer until and unless they reach DVD's no-brainer "stick it in and play" point... and with firmware upgrades actually factored into the current HD disc formats, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Just my adjusted-for-inflation $.02...

I can't argue with your POV, for mass adaption of HDM, whether it be Blu-ray or HD-DVD, they'll definitely have to do away with firmware updates. Especially when they come with a warning stating the risk that comes along with doing so (bricked unit). If they could get all BD standalone units profile 2.0 compatable, like the HD-DVD players, then the firmware updates are a much easier sell to the average consumer IMO. Blu-ray should ONLY make profile 2.0 players (ethernet port) and do away with this profile 1.0, 1.1 nonsense. They may get there eventually but some of the upcoming 2008 models are still 1.1.

I still have not seen any evidence of firmware updates containing upgraded copy protection, "lockout" for "cracked" discs. I'm not sure how accurate that perception really is.

[ejai]

Speaking of updates check this link out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7187179.stm

[MJPollard]

bbanderic:

Nice to see some agreement around here. It would be nice if all the hardware were at current specs, then firmware upgrades wouldn't be necessary at all... and that, as you can well imagine, is the easiest sell of all to John Q. Public. I tell anyone who's interested in HD discs to wait a while for things to settle down for just this reason (well, that and the almost-but-still-unresolved format war).

As far as upades for copy protection and such, it's true that I haven't seen any to date (I've mainly heard about them on the PC software end), but the potential is still there, and that makes me wary. Even the hint of someone having to ask "Why do I have to do this? Can't I just stick the movie into the player and hit Play?" should alone be enough to give one pause to consider whether or not this is a Good Thing To Do(tm). But then, no sane person has ever accused Big Media of having common sense and the wishes of the consumer at heart.

[mpalm887]

I'm still betting for another 'third' format yet to appear and takeover the market by storm
But it won't happen today or this year.
Majority of US households must be equipped with high-definition televisons first, obviously.

Agreed, but I think it's closer than we realise. The new Apple TV lets you rent HD content and watch it on any of your devices (at least Apple devices) all through iTunes. Digital dowloads may not provide us with the lossless audio formats we enjoy on hard media, but they'll give us 5.1 and 1080p video which will be suffcient for most consumers (not for me though).

Of course this phase change could take time considering the older generation doesn't like fussing with technology. They like the idea of putting in a little circle and pushing play.

[So, It is irrelevant what format wins today, but if it were HD-DVD I would think it might be here to stay. Since BR-DVD is supposedly the winner, as it is a S*ny product, I already know it is just temporary
Time will tell.

Agreed.

[MOVIEGEEK]

If you want to read what the industry insiders are doing go here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=899842

The consensus(as I read it) is HDM will be here for several years until HD downloads are fully implemented,some CE companies are researching HD on flash media also.Flash has advantages over optical for several reasons:no moving parts,no lasers and DRM built-in.

[DereX888]

I'm still betting for another 'third' format yet to appear and takeover the market by storm
But it won't happen today or this year.
Majority of US households must be equipped with high-definition televisons first, obviously.

Agreed, but I think it's closer than we realise. The new Apple TV lets you rent HD content and watch it on any of your devices (at least Apple devices) all through iTunes. Digital dowloads may not provide us with the lossless audio formats we enjoy on hard media, but they'll give us 5.1 and 1080p video which will be suffcient for most consumers (not for me though).

Of course this phase change could take time considering the older generation doesn't like fussing with technology. They like the idea of putting in a little circle and pushing play.

But actually the hardest part of this great idea (which is nothing new actually, its just that with Apple's marketing skills it might finally gain some real motion) is "the last few meters/feet" between the computer and the television set at the consumer's home.
Maybe Im wrong, but based on overwhelming majority of people I know: their computers are not even remotely close nor connected to their 'main' home television sets.
Certainly watching a movie on a computer monitor - no matter how big - is not the same as watching youtube clip-craps. Without computers connected to tv screen this whole idea loses its original brilliance, doesn't it?
And lets face it - most of the people can't tell the difference between CD and DVD, DTV and HDTV, DVI from VGA, or component from plain old RCA (aka cinch). They will never be able to hook it up and make it work on their own.
Maybe those who'll buy some soon to appear on the market "entertainment centers of tomorrow" will use it that way (by such "entertainment center" I mean a tv sets with already built-in 'media center' computers, of which couple test/show models appear every once a while but somehow never can get any popularity).
Other than that no Joe Average can do it on his own.
The "last few meters/feet" is the reason why all previous "delivery over the net" ideas failed miserably since the first incarnation of Divx VOD (if anyone remember it at all)

IMHO it'll take my and next generations (those 25yo and younger), the generations that grew up with computers since earliest childhood, to become major consumers in next 20 years or so for the market to be ready for such drastic change in methods of delivery from hardware/hardcopy to pure software.
Today's 40-year-olds barely use computers as communication tools... and lets not forget that the internet infrastructure even in major civilized countries is still far from perfect either (good'ol USA with mostly crappy, slow and overpriced internet access is best example)