What bitrate to rec standard VHS?

[vhelp]

@ jsmithepa, in all truth, with VHS, your best bitrate level setup is whatever your capture
device will max out at. The hauppauge is set for 12mbts, but I know that it can go a little higher
than that, 15mbits. You might have to find a hack tool that by-passes the default max of 12bmit,
however.

On the subject of VHS transfer (via a capture device) to other format..

Now, in addition to what everyone-else experiences, I will speak on behalf of mine

DV and Commercial Recordings-- When it comes to VHS, if the video content is a Commercial
recording (as processed by the industry) then depending on the DV capture device, your mileage will
certainly vary in terms of image detail of the captured (DV) frames.

When you consumer record-- with a VCR to a VHS tape, you are getting a 'different' grounularity
of pixel detail -- the method used to record video infomation onto vhs tapes. The way (or method) a vcr
uses to record the actual video image (sampling/harmonices/electro etc) to tape is most deffinately
different than that done by the Commercial entities record-to-tape device.

When you capture (via a DV device) from a home consumer equipment (ie, vcr) your capture device is
machanically similar and will extract the properties in with greater accruacy than those of Commericial
recordings.

** Commercial recordings are those video mediums you by in stores.
** Home consuner recordings are those that you record with your cheap vcr.

Now, when you capture with the DV device from a home recorded tape, the quality will be very close to
the tape's embeded recording signal. Therefore, the DV capture will most likely look identical with the
exception of the devices final codec format.

In this case, it is DV, YUV color space with a 4:1:1 sampling format similar to the MPEG's YUV 4:2:0
sampling format. About the only difference between the MPEG and DV formats are the CHROMA
(U and V color components) placements inside the AVI continer, and how they are:

--> Decoded; Edited upon; and re-Encoded; to the DV or YUV 4:1:1 sampling format, or worse, when
processed to yet another format, (after) usually MPEG for DVD video.

Now, I am basing my response from my ADVC-100 experiences when capturing:

--> Commercial movies vs. Home Recorded movies/video content

I found that when the video medium was not a home recording, the DV device had a bit of trouble
reproducing the sources video exactly.

And, in my experience (with the above DV device) the quality aspects (picture image detail) of the
capture was not as representative of the commercial video content. The detail of the pixels were
mostly noisy and distorted. Much like as if out of place or something.

I came to the conclusion that the (above) device's built-in machanics were to blame, (when dealing with
those video mediums processed by Commercial entities) and *not* the color space format. Weather it
was a hardware or internal filter or other sampling manipulative type function in the device, it was settled
in my mind that the difference in the image detail was a part of the devices function(s) particulary when
the source medium was originated from the Commercial Recording Studios or what-not.

Thus 1, this does not mean that DV is a Bad or Poor codec format choice. It just means that you
have to be altertive of these certain things when preporing for a capture (video transfer) process -- ie,
transfering a Commercial vhs tape to DVD.

Thus 2, when the source is from a home recorded equipment, the dv (any device) (or any analog
capture device for that matter) was subject to that recording medium (vhs tape) and the device/equipment
being used at the time of Playback and Recording (capture) to HDD.

So, DV is still a very good contender.

Therefore, the final ruling factor in this (Transfer -to other- Format) function is dependant upon these
many factors:

A -- Source Medium: ie, Home Recording vs. Commercial Recording by studios etc.
B -- Playback equipment; (and anything in-between [ie, TBC/Detailer etc])
C -- OUTput connectors: Composite/RCA vs. S-Video
D -- Capture Device;
E -- Codec or Final Video Format Destination;
F -- Editing;
G -- Post-Processing; (Filtering)
H -- and last, final video format.. ie, MPEG for DVD video.

Please be aware that many DV type devices (ie, dv cams, dv capture cards etc) had their certain apsects
of bugs or faults. And, that most these when pertaining to dv cams were subject in this area. That
is, they had problems in the following areas:

--> color space; poor chroma sampling; wrong IRE setup; color washout; poor (hardware/internal) filtering; ..

..but then again, so did/does Analog and Hardware MPEG type capture devices

Otherwise, I guess its still up to the final best, uncompressed

-vhelp 4506

[FulciLives]

The Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 is rated at a max of 12,000kbps CBR but in reality it can do a max of 15,000kbps CBR and this should be used only if you intend to re-encode.

If you just want to copy and dump to a DVD without re-encoding then do as LordSmurf says or in short pick a VBR bitrate that will allow your recording (i.e., the length) to fit onto a black DVD disc. SmokieStover gave some good advise as to doing this as well.

Now you can get very acceptable if not very good quality just encoding at the bitrate needed so you might be wondering why capture at 15,000kbps to re-encode?

Well VHS is a very "noisy" video source. When you re-encode you can apply video noise filters in an attempt to clean it up as well as other filters that may or may not be needed (like adjusting the color or tint or black levels etc.)

Also a VHS capture will be 29.970fps but depending on the source you might want to do an IVTC and make it progressive 23.976fps and doing that will require a re-encode.

Another reason might be length. If the movie is very long then a true 2-pass or multipass VBR can do better than a real time VBR encode.

So again only record at the MAX if you intend to re-encode as this will give you the best quality "master" to work with but at the same time do not feel afraid to record direct to your desired bitrate and just "dump" it to DVD as is because this can work as well although it depends on the quality of the source, the length, the resolution etc.

For instance if this is a very nice quality VHS and it's only 90 minutes long and you set the bitrate to fill the DVD at 90 minutes then you will have very nice quality. However if the VHS recording is very noisy and it's 135 minutes long and you want to keep it at 720x480 then that will probably require a MAX recording to be re-encoded to look really good OR you might be able to get away with a proper bitrate recording if you use 352x480 instead of 720x480 etc.

There are many variables that decide which way you should go ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman