Recommend a good VHS to DVD Recorder? JVC?

[aim15011]

One of my friends who is a complete boxing fanatic wants to convert his VHS tapes to DVD. He's got 100+ VHS tapes to convert. And he's looking for the best DVD recorder that'll transfer his VHS Tapes with great image quality. What VHS to DVD Recorder do you guys recommend. He's looking to spend $50-$150.

I was thinking about the JVC DR-MV5S. Is that a good recorder?

And are there recorders that'll filter out hissing noise on VHS tapes?

[lordsmurf]

Yes, that's a good one for cleaning up VHS.

No recorder filters audio. There are some decides you can buy, but it won't work on a combo.

The VCRs in combos are only average, better recorders exist. It's a good idea to use a DVD recorder and VCR that are not in the same unit, in case you want to put other devices in between (TBC, audio filters, etc).

[aim15011]

Yes, that's a good one for cleaning up VHS.

No recorder filters audio. There are some decides you can buy, but it won't work on a combo.

The VCRs in combos are only average, better recorders exist. It's a good idea to use a DVD recorder and VCR that are not in the same unit, in case you want to put other devices in between (TBC, audio filters, etc).

So those VCR/DVD combos isnt that good?

I know for sure he already owns a Sony VCR. So standalone DVD recorders are the only way to go (image quality wise?).

Audio filters isnt a top priority. Just something simple and with great quality. He only wants to spend around $150.

[jjeff]

Most of the combo unit's I've seen aren't that great. I would agree, JVC always made good VCR's. If the tapes were recorded in SP mode, be sure to get a 4 video head unit. I think?? JVC only made 4 head units.
As far as audio, I'm not sure how old his tapes are, but if they are pre-hi fi, he's gonna have a hard time with audio quality. Most of mine are linear audio only, they actually have a OK sound on my OLD monoral VCR's, but on a newer hi-fi model, they sound like crap. I think they must have a 39 cent audio head, for the liniear audio head, in the hi fi machines. I really could not recommend a newer VCR for good linear audio. Maybe someone else might know one?

[orsetto]

The JVC DR-MV5 is the best unit your friend can buy in his price range. A good second-hand one with remote should run no more than $90 + shipping. You might even still find a leftover unit in a store. This model was probably the single best VCR/DVD combo recorder ever made, but note being older it can be a little picky about DVD-R media. It works well with Taiyo Yuden 8x, Sony 16x (if made in Taiwan- not Malaysia), and most DVD-RAM brands. Most other DVD-R of any brand name is now actually being made in a third-rate CMC factory, and these discs will often not burn well (TDK, various store brands). Also the otherwise-excellent Verbatim discs WILL NOT work in the older DR-MV5, he'll need to avoid those for sure. Your friend may need to experiment now and then as the brands change dye formulas.

Newer combo units will of course have better media compatibility, but will cost much much more ($200-350) because of the new digital ATSC tuners they have. Also, the older JVC has uniquely optimized 3-4 hour recording modes that knock the socks off any newer machine- boxing matches often run 3-4 hours each, for that the older JVC is perfect.

[hech54]

Combos are crap.

[pepegot1]

Combo units give problems if Macrovision is on the VHS tapes. I use a JVC DR-M10S with a stabilizer to defeat macrovision for my conversion backups. It work very well. Hard to get DR-M10s today-maybe refab on Ebay, or do a search.

[orsetto]

Not "every" combo unit is crap: most are, but some will do a decent job for specific purposes. Apparently ALL this guy wants to do is transfer 100 boxing tapes he recorded himself. This can be done easily with a combo. Probably doesn't have Macrovision issues with his boxing tapes.

Since he has an issue with tape hiss I would normally agree he should go with a more versatile separate solution: play the tapes off his existing Sony vcr into a standalone recorder, preferably thru an equalizer to kill the audio hiss. Unfortunately, the good older DVD-only recorders are way overpriced right now on the secondary market, so he'll still likely need to go with a used combo unit budget-wise (he can always use the DVD part of the combo separately with his Sony vcr.) The new DVD recorders available in US stores are damn pricey right now because of their new ATSC tuners, which are unnecessary for his tape dubbing project. He could maybe try one of the cheap Funai units at Wal*Mart, some people report they get good results with 'em and at least Wal*Mart has a return policy.

[oldandinthe way]

In my opinion the best results without the intervention of other equipment come when the recorder which made the VHS is used as the source. If you friend recorded all or most of his tapes on the SONY, I recommend using it.

I would definitely not purchase a combo anything. Most common failure in modern consumer electronics is power supplies. One power supply for two devices means one failure, two devices gone.

In my opinion a cheap Magnavox or Funai SV2000 is a more than adequate DVD recorder when used in 2 hour or slower modes. $50 at Walmart. If the videos need help, that leaves the extra money available for a video stabilizer or TBC. I am not aware of any media compatability problems with these machines. In fact, I am aware of very few media compatibility problems with low-priced DVD recorders in general.

[KeepItSimple]

Also the otherwise-excellent Verbatim discs WILL NOT work in the older DR-MV5, he'll need to avoid those for sure. Your friend may need to experiment now and then as the brands change dye formulas.

Will Verbatim 8X DataLifePlus DVD-R work on the DR-MV5? I wasn't sure if you meant all Verbatim or the 16x.
I was thinking of getting a DR-MV5 but that might be a problem if it won't burn Verbatim 8x DataLifePlus, which are my favorite.
Pretty much any 8x or lower would burn on my JVC DR-M10 but no 16x would burn.

[Marvingj]

I agree that combos are crap! I brought a Sansui 4005 few years back and gave me very good result. I'm not stating that all combos are junk but at least 90%. This model surprise me.

[orsetto]

Will Verbatim 8X DataLifePlus DVD-R work on the DR-MV5? I wasn't sure if you meant all Verbatim or the 16x.

I've never had a problem with the 8x Verbatim in a DR-MV5, but 8x is no longer available in retail stores, only thru some online suppliers. 16x Verbatim did work in older machines until last year when a huge batch from a specific CMC factory hit store shelves with a slightly different dye formula: the older JVCs choke on it. Those discs are all marked MAP6 on the hub, unfortunately you can't see it until you open the package. This MAP6 version is all they have on store shelves in New York, others in different areas of the country have reported they're finally selling thru and being replaced with a different run of new discs. Hard to say, so stick to the 8x if you can. Note if you have a recorder made after 2006 you can use the MAP6 Verbatims, they're excellent media, just less compatible with older burners.

Re the "combos are crap" brigade: while again I usually would agree, one has to be careful not to make blanket judgments because there are SOME exceptions and more importantly there are a TON of people out there who like the idea of a combo for financial or personal reasons, period, and will risk it no matter what we say (Panasonic can't build them fast enough, whether we like it or not). For those people, I can say from personal experience dubbing several hundred tapes using several JVC DR-MV5 combos: they are better than average. The DVD recorder in it is identical to the JVC DR-M100, which was about the best on the market two years ago and still highly regarded for its filtering and LP quality. The VCR in the DR-MV5 also happens to be much better than expected quality- it tracks certain torturous tapes that would not play on any of my high-end VCRs including the legendary JVC 9911. So, for $40-80 used, the JVC DR-MV5 is a good bet and adds a second VCR option if any tapes don't play on your existing VCR or it fails in the middle of your project.

That said, I agree with oldandintheway that for this boxing tape project its worth risking the $50 recorder at Wal*Mart and using the existing Sony vcr as the source, at least as a starting point. If there are problems, return it to Wal*Mart and try the used JVC combo or some other solution. BTW all bets are off if these boxing tapes were recorded off cable: average analog cable TV signal often contains noise that creates a total mess when converted to DVD. If you are unlucky that way, you will need a much more expensive VCR with built in filters to cure those disturbances.

[oldandinthe way]

BTW all bets are off if these boxing tapes were recorded off cable: average analog cable TV signal often contains noise that creates a total mess when converted to DVD. If you are unlucky that way, you will need a much more expensive VCR with built in filters to cure those disturbances.

I'm not sure what cable system you have VHS's recorded from but my recordings from analog cable can be converted with little ill effects other than that due the age of the tapes. And for reasons I've never quite understood, the DVDs appear to be superior to the source, when viewed on a CRT based TV. I've converted tapes from 1 - 20 years old so the underlying cable technologies have varied siginificantly. Frankly the images from digital cable are far worse on my current Comcast system with pixilation and delay a common occurance. There are times when we switch to the analog signal to avoid nausea.

I use a LiteOn 5005 which is a long in the tooth commodity recorder, and JVC built and LG built Zenith VCR's - also quite aged.

[deuce8pro]

Its been posted here before but you need to set the black level before encoding on the JVC dvd recorder. A toshiba dr-4 works great.

[orsetto]

oldandintheway wrote:

I'm not sure what cable system you have VHS's recorded from but my recordings from analog cable can be converted with little ill effects other than that due the age of the tapes.

Here in Brooklyn we've had pretty dismal performance from Time Warner Cable once they bought up all the smaller franchises ten or twelve years back. Recently they switched everyone over to digital SD cable, which is the same overcompressed pixelated crap you get everywhere in the country now. It looks awful, but otherwise has no issues digitizing from VHS or direct to DVD. However the tapes recorded from the previous analog system are a nightmare to encode. They are borderline watchable to begin with because the signal itself was very noisy/grainy, and they contain "hidden" signal issues that are invisible when watching the tapes directly but that cause VERY visible havoc when patched thru to a DVD recorder. Thru a digitizer, the tapes look horribly distorted, with rolling waves of disturbance and tearing all over the screen- unbelievably bad. I was real bitter when I discovered this, because it blew to hell my plan to transfer a couple thousand tapes via my old Panasonic vcrs, my two Pioneer DVD recorders, and a bunch of JVC DR-MV5 combo units I bought cheap specifically for this project. The encoders in the Pioneer and JVC recorders just could not cope with the analog cable source tapes, only with tapes I had recorded from off-air broadcasts, digital cable, or camcorder.

After two months testing a number of pricey VCRs with TBC/DNR filters (JVC, Panasonic, MGA) to see if they would solve this analog cable distortion issue, I discovered the Panasonics did very little to smooth the signal, the JVCs did a little better, and the Mitsubishi DVHS did best of all: cleaned those suckers up to where they looked as good as an OTA vhs recording. Of course, they cost $150-400, so I could only afford two of them and my project has slowed accordingly. The moral being, don't assume one hardware setup will solve every problem: you never know what hidden issue will pop up. VHS to DVD is a shotgun marriage: make sure you have enough shells to make 'em say "I do".

[oldandinthe way]

Very interesting, I consider myself fortunate that before Comcast came in Continental Cablevision had clean analog signals, and Comcast in my town still does.

I am also fortunate that in my second home in Maine, Metrocast has extremely clear digital signals with no pixilization.

No doubt the results of being a state of the art system with few enough subscribers to actually have adequate bandwidth in the system.

Now if someone will just provide some programming I would like to record.

[orsetto]

deuce8pro wrote:

Its been posted here before but you need to set the black level before encoding on the JVC dvd recorder. A toshiba dr-4 works great.

That has been posted here, it has also been debated into the ground here. The JVC encode varies from somewhat lighter to noticeably lighter depending on your source material and your particular JVC unit. From VHS sources it is usually OK, the benefits of its noise filtering often outweigh any slight lightening of the image. For the little money a JVC sells for used, its a steal for those on a budget. If you can afford a more expensive machine, you have your pick of excellent options, but for $50 used I'd grab a JVC DR-MV5 anytime. Re "the Toshiba DR-4 works great": it does, until it breaks. Toshibas are fantastic encoders, better even than JVC, with incredible finalizing options found on no other machines. But Toshibas are also notorious for having the most fragile DVD burners: not the best choice for someone on a tight budget. Great units for those who can self-service them, otherwise a bit risky. Unless you were suggesting patching a BROKEN Toshiba in between the vcr and the JVC DVD recorder, and using the Toshiba as an image-processor. That's a great option if you can find a really dirt-cheap DR-4 (they sometimes sell for less than $20 without the remote).

[aim15011]

deuce8pro wrote:

Its been posted here before but you need to set the black level before encoding on the JVC dvd recorder. A toshiba dr-4 works great.

That has been posted here, it has also been debated into the ground here. The JVC encode varies from somewhat lighter to noticeably lighter depending on your source material and your particular JVC unit. From VHS sources it is usually OK, the benefits of its noise filtering often outweigh any slight lightening of the image. For the little money a JVC sells for used, its a steal for those on a budget. If you can afford a more expensive machine, you have your pick of excellent options, but for $50 used I'd grab a JVC DR-MV5 anytime. Re "the Toshiba DR-4 works great": it does, until it breaks. Toshibas are fantastic encoders, better even than JVC, with incredible finalizing options found on no other machines. But Toshibas are also notorious for having the most fragile DVD burners: not the best choice for someone on a tight budget. Great units for those who can self-service them, otherwise a bit risky. Unless you were suggesting patching a BROKEN Toshiba in between the vcr and the JVC DVD recorder, and using the Toshiba as an image-processor. That's a great option if you can find a really dirt-cheap DR-4 (they sometimes sell for less than $20 without the remote).

he is intrested in a Toshiba DR400. Good recorder? I told him about the combos and now he rather get a standalone recorder. Whatever will work best for his fight collection.

[orsetto]

aim15011 wrote:

he is intrested in a Toshiba DR400. Good recorder? I told him about the combos and now he rather get a standalone recorder. Whatever will work best for his fight collection.

If he goes for the separate (non-combo) recorder, have him try the $50 Funai sold at Wal*Mart. The problem is, most of the cheaper recorders in stores now are failure-prone junk, including the Toshiba DR-400 and other big names. If your friend is going to buy new, at least Wal*Mart has an extended return policy. Transferring 200 tapes is kind of intensive and he will likely have a recorder fail before he gets thru half of those tapes. I have had very bad luck with current "budget" recorders, so I'd suggest Wal*Mart as the safest retailer given their return policy. Send him there. If they have a Toshiba, great, otherwise have him pick up the Funai.

[deuce8pro]

deuce8pro wrote:

Its been posted here before but you need to set the black level before encoding on the JVC dvd recorder. A toshiba dr-4 works great.

That has been posted here, it has also been debated into the ground here. The JVC encode varies from somewhat lighter to noticeably lighter depending on your source material and your particular JVC unit. From VHS sources it is usually OK, the benefits of its noise filtering often outweigh any slight lightening of the image. For the little money a JVC sells for used, its a steal for those on a budget. If you can afford a more expensive machine, you have your pick of excellent options, but for $50 used I'd grab a JVC DR-MV5 anytime. Re "the Toshiba DR-4 works great": it does, until it breaks. Toshibas are fantastic encoders, better even than JVC, with incredible finalizing options found on no other machines. But Toshibas are also notorious for having the most fragile DVD burners: not the best choice for someone on a tight budget. Great units for those who can self-service them, otherwise a bit risky. Unless you were suggesting patching a BROKEN Toshiba in between the vcr and the JVC DVD recorder, and using the Toshiba as an image-processor. That's a great option if you can find a really dirt-cheap DR-4 (they sometimes sell for less than $20 without the remote).

I love the JVC. But you got to correct the black level before encoding on the JVC when recording from VHS.
Its insane not to.
Also, when someone says they want to transfer 200 tapes. Be in for an expensive nightmare unless you dont really care about the finished product. But for me, I want the best quality transfers. So you are gonna need a JVC SVHS,
and not just one because some of them wont track a particular tape well so multiples is the way to go.
JVC HR-S9500u, JVC HR-S9600u, and JVC HR-S9800u (or that Mitsu DVHS deck).
Id go with whichever one you can find.
From there you need to set the black level. Toshiba DR-4 does a great job of this or Panasonic ES10 is another good option. Quality wise, get the Toshiba.
You also want to use heavy duty s-video cables. Now what I do from here before I even send it to the JVC. I patch it through my Sony Digital8 camera with tbc/dnr. The camera's tbc/dnr helps to further clean up the picture and then I send a firewire to the JVC DRM100 recorder. Its worth the search and investment and probably the best encoder out of any of the DVD Recorder brands. Use XP or SP. Never use LP. I dont know why anyone would suggest that. If you have to, spread it out over multiple dvd's. Get either TDK, Sony, or Verbatim dvdrs.
Believe me, this is the way to go. Theres no better way to do it.

[lordsmurf]

My two JVC recorders have no black level problems. I have seen it on others. Very often, it's an issue of the source. The only time my JVC discs are light, is when it's a recording from my digital cable box in a certain room on certain channels (CW is one). The playback (yes, on another machine, with correct IRE) is fine on the LCD in that same room. On my new 55" SXRD, it's off. Not 7.5 IRE off, but like 20 off. The other JVC recorder, no such problems.

It's a combination of issues, and too many people blame the recorder for other compounded issues in their setup. It's not a "JVC error" of some kind.

Sources and devices are all over the map. Trying to tweak IRE is a largely futile exercise. Even your next tv or DVD recorder will be different. Keep it close, and don't kill yourself. That's why machines have black level adjustments. I just add +20 on the 55" and it's all good.

My VHS transfers are all perfect, in terms of color/levels.

[deuce8pro]

My two JVC recorders have no black level problems. I have seen it on others. Very often, it's an issue of the source. The only time my JVC discs are light, is when it's a recording from my digital cable box in a certain room on certain channels (CW is one). The playback (yes, on another machine, with correct IRE) is fine on the LCD in that same room. On my new 55" SXRD, it's off. Not 7.5 IRE off, but like 20 off. The other JVC recorder, no such problems.

It's a combination of issues, and too many people blame the recorder for other compounded issues in their setup. It's not a "JVC error" of some kind.

Sources and devices are all over the map. Trying to tweak IRE is a largely futile exercise. Even your next tv or DVD recorder will be different. Keep it close, and don't kill yourself. That's why machines have black level adjustments. I just add +20 on the 55" and it's all good.

My VHS transfers are all perfect, in terms of color/levels.

Your contradicting me but no this is not true.
You must set the black level before sending the signal to the JVC to record, using the method I suggested
for perfect transfers. Believe me. I have and I do get perfect transfers.

[aim15011]

aim15011 wrote:

he is intrested in a Toshiba DR400. Good recorder? I told him about the combos and now he rather get a standalone recorder. Whatever will work best for his fight collection.

If he goes for the separate (non-combo) recorder, have him try the $50 Funai sold at Wal*Mart. The problem is, most of the cheaper recorders in stores now are failure-prone junk, including the Toshiba DR-400 and other big names. If your friend is going to buy new, at least Wal*Mart has an extended return policy. Transferring 200 tapes is kind of intensive and he will likely have a recorder fail before he gets thru half of those tapes. I have had very bad luck with current "budget" recorders, so I'd suggest Wal*Mart as the safest retailer given their return policy. Send him there. If they have a Toshiba, great, otherwise have him pick up the Funai.

just curious how's the quality of the Funai compared to the Toshiba DR400?

[samijubal]

aim15011 wrote:

he is intrested in a Toshiba DR400. Good recorder? I told him about the combos and now he rather get a standalone recorder. Whatever will work best for his fight collection.

If he goes for the separate (non-combo) recorder, have him try the $50 Funai sold at Wal*Mart. The problem is, most of the cheaper recorders in stores now are failure-prone junk, including the Toshiba DR-400 and other big names. If your friend is going to buy new, at least Wal*Mart has an extended return policy. Transferring 200 tapes is kind of intensive and he will likely have a recorder fail before he gets thru half of those tapes. I have had very bad luck with current "budget" recorders, so I'd suggest Wal*Mart as the safest retailer given their return policy. Send him there. If they have a Toshiba, great, otherwise have him pick up the Funai.

A recorder fail before 200 discs? A Funai maybe. I did have a used Ebay Toshiba fail in about 9 months, but that was used daily with RWs, sometimes a few hours a day. I've been using the second used Ebay Toshiba for well over a year now and it still works fine. Unless you just get a lemon recorder, it should last well over 200 discs. Just record one disc at a time and let the recorder cool down for awhile before doing another one and you shouldn't have any problems. My sister has a Toshiba she's been using for well over a year now without any problems.

[lordsmurf]

My two JVC recorders have no black level problems. I have seen it on others. Very often, it's an issue of the source. The only time my JVC discs are light, is when it's a recording from my digital cable box in a certain room on certain channels (CW is one). The playback (yes, on another machine, with correct IRE) is fine on the LCD in that same room. On my new 55" SXRD, it's off. Not 7.5 IRE off, but like 20 off. The other JVC recorder, no such problems.

It's a combination of issues, and too many people blame the recorder for other compounded issues in their setup. It's not a "JVC error" of some kind.

Sources and devices are all over the map. Trying to tweak IRE is a largely futile exercise. Even your next tv or DVD recorder will be different. Keep it close, and don't kill yourself. That's why machines have black level adjustments. I just add +20 on the 55" and it's all good.

My VHS transfers are all perfect, in terms of color/levels.

Your contradicting me but no this is not true.
You must set the black level before sending the signal to the JVC to record, using the method I suggested
for perfect transfers. Believe me. I have and I do get perfect transfers.

Well, I get perfect transfers too, and I don't need to alter black level. So therein lies the problem.

[aim15011]

aim15011 wrote:

he is intrested in a Toshiba DR400. Good recorder? I told him about the combos and now he rather get a standalone recorder. Whatever will work best for his fight collection.

If he goes for the separate (non-combo) recorder, have him try the $50 Funai sold at Wal*Mart. The problem is, most of the cheaper recorders in stores now are failure-prone junk, including the Toshiba DR-400 and other big names. If your friend is going to buy new, at least Wal*Mart has an extended return policy. Transferring 200 tapes is kind of intensive and he will likely have a recorder fail before he gets thru half of those tapes. I have had very bad luck with current "budget" recorders, so I'd suggest Wal*Mart as the safest retailer given their return policy. Send him there. If they have a Toshiba, great, otherwise have him pick up the Funai.

A recorder fail before 200 discs? A Funai maybe. I did have a used Ebay Toshiba fail in about 9 months, but that was used daily with RWs, sometimes a few hours a day. I've been using the second used Ebay Toshiba for well over a year now and it still works fine. Unless you just get a lemon recorder, it should last well over 200 discs. Just record one disc at a time and let the recorder cool down for awhile before doing another one and you shouldn't have any problems. My sister has a Toshiba she's been using for well over a year now without any problems.

and just curious, have you witness any "dropped frames" using both DVD Recorders? Thats something he defiantly wants to avoid. His last VHS-to-DVD conversion box (Pyro ADS) wasnt too good and dropped so many frames, he returned it the next day.

[lordsmurf]

I don't think I've ever seen a DVD recorder drop frames, aside from some early LiteOn units 4-5 years ago.

[djnice]

The new Sony RDR-HX750 (Pioneer clone) is drop frames while recording a VHS with time base errors.

[orsetto]

The new Sony RDR-HX750 (Pioneer clone) is drop frames while recording a VHS with time base errors.

The current (531 and later) model North American NTSC-standard Pioneers were specifically redesigned to be very resistant to dropped-frame problems from dodgy VHS sources. The earlier Pioneer 510 and 520 did indeed have drop-frame issues, adding a time base corrector always fixed the problem on those units. In the unlikely event your newer NTSC recorder drops frames, decent second-hand pro TBCs are easily available for $100 or less in the US. Note also the newer Pioneer-based Sony recorders do NOT have exactly the same circuitry and video encoders as the Pioneers: there are some significant internal variations, so it is possible NTSC-model Sony recorders might be more sensitive to dropped frames than their Pioneer cousins. Living in Hungary, you likely have a PAL-based Sony, which could also be a factor.

[oldandinthe way]

Well here I go again.

In my experience which is limited I have not encountered problems with any DVD recorder in quality of recording when recording in 2 hour or shorter mode.

I have seen problems with the quality of input signals, both from crappy tuners, crappy VHS tapes and from crappy VCRs, In reading many posts on this and other forums, it appears that my experience is not atypical.

Unless a DVDrecorder has specific features to justify a higher price, I find price to be the overwhelming factor.

As for reliability, the annecdotal evidence I have seen does not seem to associate any particular brand with high reliability. If I were to search for a chance at higher reliability I would choose a unit with appears to have superior ventilation and air flow. But realistically I would probably end up with a unit which APPEARS to have superior ventilation and air flow. Placement of the unit with greater air space around it would probably be more effective.