Game over, HD-DVD...

[rumplestiltskin]

BluRay vs HD-DVD? Two one-legged idiots in an ass-kicking contest.

Don't need either format; don't watch vid's on disc. H264 on my AppleTV works just fine.

[RLT69]

mpiper could you explain where you get your facts?

First off HD-DVD does not use the same technology that makes DVDs. HD-DVD is the same size as a DVD, Blu-ray is slightly larger. Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD use a Blue laser to read the discs.

Costs are a major red herring since over time ANY technology once it becomes mass produced starts to drop in price. Case in point you can purchase a Sony Blu-ray player for $300 at Crutchfield's when once they went for $1,000.

One more point: SONY IS NOT BLU-RAY. Sony is major backer of Blu-ray but Blu-ray is controlled by the Blu-ray Disc Association. Current members as of December 2007:

# Apple
# Dell
# Hewlett Packard
# Hitachi
# LG Electronics
# Mitsubishi Electric
# Panasonic (Matsushita Electric)
# Pioneer Corporation
# Royal Philips Electronics
# Samsung Electronics
# Sharp Corporation
# Sony Corporation
# Sun Microsystems
# TDK Corporation
# Thomson
# Twentieth Century Fox
# Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Buena Vista Home Entertainment
# Warner Home Video Inc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

So these paranoid notions that Sony controls Blu-ray are the paranoid rantings of lunatics. HD-DVD is dead because of content. The content makers are moving towards Blu-ray. Warners signs on to Blu-ray, it's just a matter of time when other companies sign on to exclusive deals. Blu-ray won early on when it signed up alot of movie studios. Content is king. Blu-ray has it, HD-DVD does not.

Not too mention this will speed up HD adoption, which I believe most companies were tired of this war.


On to the important stuff....FulciLives...hows the Blade Runner set!!!!


8)

[RLT69]

Basically...every HD title you see will have to go through the "brass" at Sony one way or another.

No they (Sony) won't because they don't control it.

On top of all that, it locks out several content owners. There are tons of, well shot, HD programming. I personally am not into most studio titles whether it be BD or HD DVD. There's a whole market out there for "independent" programming which want to release BD but can't at this point.

And people don't care. Christ, what consumer who walks into Best Buy to purchase SpiderMan 3 or Ratatouille knows or cares. They go and buy movies and TV Shows. So unless there's a movie or TV Show that's not going to be released on Blu-ray that millions of people care about, it won't matter; assuming this is true.

Let the paranoia continue

[videopoo]

Not paranoid...I'm just sad I won't get to see many titles I like for a long time, if at all - not to mention the money I might have lost with that anoucement.

I'm talking about the tools needed to produce BD titles. These are licensed by Sony.

And people don't care. Christ, what consumer who walks into Best Buy to purchase SpiderMan 3 or Ratatouille knows or cares. They go and buy movies and TV Shows. So unless there's a movie or TV Show that's not going to be released on Blu-ray that millions of people care about, it won't matter; assuming this is true

You missed my point. I Care! My wife cares. My nextdoor and me were talking the other day and I found out he cared too. There's a whole market out their for people who don't enjoy a majority of films put out by the major studios. Sony's not going to offer free authoring services for long. so your saying unless a million people care about a title, it's not worth releasing on disc?

mpiper could you explain where you get your facts?

First off HD-DVD does not use the same technology that makes DVDs. HD-DVD is the same size as a DVD, Blu-ray is slightly larger. Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD use a Blue laser to read the discs.

I believe he was referring to production. Any current plant can easily replicate HD DVD discs with simple upgrade. As far as authoring goes its very similar...The HD DVD Standard Content Spec is almost identical to SD DVD. Advanced Content would be equal to a web site with transparencies laid on top of HD video.

I love Blu Ray...its a great format! In fact, I can't wait to start authoring BD titles. It may do wonderful things in the future....but just offer the tools to us little folks too. We have good ideas too ya know That's what I loved about HD DVD... it was free to use and explore what it could do and many great things were done by many people around the world that nobody will ever see....MAYBE.

[FulciLives]

BluRay vs HD-DVD? Two one-legged idiots in an ass-kicking contest.

Don't need either format; don't watch vid's on disc. H264 on my AppleTV works just fine.

What kind of bullshit is this?

And where do you get all your H264 content? DVD Videos you rent and rip? DVD rips you download via bit torrent?

Give me a freakin' break 8)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[HemLok]

For me if Blu-Ray wins then everyone loses and that's all there is to it.

Blu-Ray mandates AACS while HD-DVD does not. If Blu-Ray wins and that's the only format then: (1) a lof of smaller independent movies that deserve to be released won't because the AACS license is too costly or (2) they'll be released on HD-DVD if it's still viable but only those people with an HD-DVD player or a dual-format player will be able to view the video.

In the end the small people lose.

[raffie]

When the time comes it becomes clear for everyone Blu is the winner, we can say the better format won, unlike if you want to make a comparisson, with VHS so many years ago. Allow me to make a little trip to the past. VHS was VASTLY inferiour to its competitors. I have VCRs of both its competitors back then. Both Beta and Video2000 had better image quality, Video2000 could be recorded both ways, doubling playback time without quality loss, and no interferance during picture seek. No tracking (wich was an issue with other VCRs of that time), and plans to use PCM (yes - digital) audio.

Blu-ray is as VASTLY a superiour technology compared to HD-DVD in every sence. More capacity (both actual and theoretical), more video codecs supported right out of the box, more advanced authoring (Java), ...

HD-DVD had only this as an advantage: marketing, an established name (being DVD). Nice try.

If HD-DVD would have won this, it would have been VHS all over again. And who here would have wanted that? Joe Blow doesnt have a clue about what technicalities are gonna make for a better user-experience. But as a video-enthousiast, dont you want the better format to be adopted?
So all I can say is thank **** Sony learned the lesson from Betamax and got its strategy right ON TOP of having the technology right.

[Rich86]

What I don't understand is if BlueRay has all these advantages and offers such technical superiority, why doesn't it ever translate into a superior viewing and listening experience? Every review and test anyone offers says the same title on HD-DVD and BlueRay look and sound the same. I can attest to the fact that HD-DVD looks and sounds terrific, but why would folks want to spend almost double the prices for the same quality on a competing format?

VHS won because that was the format the people chose over Sony's Beta entry into the field. The people chose the characteristics of VHS tape over Beta. At the time, it had a lot to do with how much video (time) could be recorded and stored on the tapes. Beta was limited in that regard. Of course this was a recordable media, and the studios were up in arms over the fact that the technology even existed at all at the time (some things don't change, eh?).

Everyone has known for quite some time that the "winning" high def optical media format will be chosen via studio support by releasing movies in that format.
BlueRay is winning because that is the format the largest movie studios are willing to permit people to choose.
Although I will most likely keep my new Toshiba HD-A30 and pick up a few more movies in the format, I actually choose standard def dvd played via quality upconverting dvd players to high quality 1080p TV's.
Since I cannot see any advantage to BlueRay over HD-DVD from a present day practical perspective, I don't know why I would want to run out and replace my HD-DVD titles with BlueRay versions of those titles. I don't plan to step into line with the studios and get into the blueray business in the foreseeable future. My HD-A30 appears to be a great upconverting standard def dvd player as well as a HD-DVD player, so it won't become useless for quite some time, I imagine. I guess Warner has just chased our family out of the high def optical media purchasing arena for now at least.

[RabidDog]

Isnt the truth (unspoken) that people prefer HD-DVD because the BD+ systen has proved uncrackable, so far? the Elepant is out of the Bag now.

[Rich86]

Isnt the truth (unspoken) that people prefer HD-DVD because the BD+ systen has proved uncrackable, so far? the Elepant is out of the Bag now.

Although I can envision the movie studios preferring Sony's absolute paranoia about copy protection as an advantage to themselves, I really don't believe the folks who embraced HD-DVD did it because they are thinking about a desire to copy HD-DVD movies. It is completely impractical to even mess with it. And we all know that Blueray can and will always be able to be copied as well.
As a recent HD-DVD owner/customer, I can tell you that any desire to be able to copy optical media based high definition material did not enter into consideration at all. Any more than it did when we first entered the world of any of the entertainment formats over the years. Most of us simply care about enjoying what we bought wherever we want to - quality, price and portability are the biggies in my opinion.

[videopoo]

Blu-ray is as VASTLY a superiour technology compared to HD-DVD in every sence. More capacity (both actual and theoretical), more video codecs supported right out of the box, more advanced authoring (Java),

VASTLY is a very big word! Were not interested in vaporware (ie what could it do as compared to what does it do...make sense.

more video codecs supported right out of the box

totally untrue...

more advanced authoring (Java)

advanced? In what way? Remember Java is software programming - many hours of code need to be written and tested for these "advanced features" (all of which can be done in HD DVD right now BTW). HD content is still a business which means they need to get the most bang for their buck - as in "we need this title done this week". BD-J has and will have no place in most BD title in the future - mark my word.

HD-DVD had only this as an advantage: marketing, an established name (being DVD). Nice try.

Actually...the statement "nice try" should be to you. You think HD DVD has/had better marketing? Thats weird

[tumbar]

Frankly, I think DVD is going to be around for a long time.

I'm not sure joe sixpack will embrace HD untill they start giving the players away at wally world.


JMHO

[MOVIEGEEK]

raffie,
Your post is so full of inaccuracies it's rediculous.Both formats support the same video and audio codecs,the only advantage Blu-Ray has is a larger capacity disc which is not being used right now.As for interactivity you must have a Blu Ray 2.0 player which doesn't exist,HD DVD has interactivity built-in to every machine.

[cal_tony]

Bought a HDDVD player over the holidays because they were so cheap. Liked it so much that this week I'm looking to pick up a BLURAY player as well.

So, it doesn't make any difference to me if the war is over or not. I'll have both players and they each will play DVDs as well so, I'm covered.

The thing that I have noticed is that even with 2 formats avail, the retail pricing of Hi-def disks is only about $3-$4 more than DVDs. $20 vs $24. So, with only 1 format, will the pricing of movies go up or down?

Finally, and I don't know the relevance of it, I remember a lot was said years ago that the demise of the Bata format, even though it had advantages over VHS, was to a large extant accelerated by the Adult sector of the movie industry embracing VHS exclusively.

I bring this up because I remember reading just recently that Sony indicated that they had no intention of making the BLURAY format avail to the Adult movie industry.

Tony

[Midzuki]

cal_tony wrote:

I remember reading just recently that Sony indicated that they had no intention of making the BLURAY format avail to the Adult movie industry.

Doesn' matter. Nothing can stop The Porn Supremacy!

[ebenton]

Digital downloads are so far into the future it's not really fair to talk about it. Remember VHS was the standard 7 years ago. Lets discuss what will happen now not in 7 or 8 years - a long time.

LG and Netflix are combining to release a "box" later this year that will allow customers to download HD movies from Netlix to this "box", which will be connected to the internet and will also connect directly to the customer's HDTV. Price is estimated to be about $800.

This does not seem to be "far into the future".

Of course, it remains to be seen if any studios will prohibit their movies from being delivered in this manner. Sony might have to twist some arms to stop it.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/01-03-2008/0004729709&EDATE=

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/LG-and-Netflix-announce-plan-to-deliver-movies-directly-t...elevision.html

[jman98]

Although I can envision the movie studios preferring Sony's absolute paranoia about copy protection as an advantage to themselves, I really don't believe the folks who embraced HD-DVD did it because they are thinking about a desire to copy HD-DVD movies. It is completely impractical to even mess with it.

I agree with this. While there is some copying going on, it is very impractical to say the least. The current generation of Toshiba HD DVD players don't appear to support HD DVD content on DVD DL discs even though the format explicitly allows this, so the idea of doing HD DVD rip -> shrink to DVD-9 -> burn is not here yet. The only thing that really seems to work at this time is ripping HD DVD and converting it to something like WMV.

And we all know that Blueray can and will always be able to be copied as well.

Maybe not. Current BD+ technology appears to sort of be rippable, but based on some long threads I've seen elsewhere it doesn't seem clear to me that you can actually do anything with the files after they are ripped.

[Rich86]

Maybe not. Current BD+ technology appears to sort of be rippable, but based on some long threads I've seen elsewhere it doesn't seem clear to me that you can actually do anything with the files after they are ripped.[/quote]
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm thinking that sooner or later, every format will be able to be copied. I guess I'm a believer in the old adage "if it can be played, it can be copied". But I really don't think this topic has anything to do with HD-DVD vs. Blue-Ray ending up winners or losers, except that Sony and therefore Blue-Ray continue their obsession about restricting the uses and rights of their customers. If that is ok with their customers, so be it. Whether or not they attract new customers is another matter.

[Conquest10]

When the time comes it becomes clear for everyone Blu is the winner, we can say the better format won

Why? Because its a Sony?

Blu-ray is as VASTLY a superiour technology compared to HD-DVD in every sence.

How so? Oh right, because it has soooooooooooooo much more storage space.

All the extra space means nothing (in terms of movies I've always said Blu-Ray has always seemed more appropriate for computer storage use than for movies). Blu-Ray specs still have a maximum allowable video bitrate. So all the space means nothing if you can't use it. All the extra space is useful for is for even more interviews with the key grips and best boys from the movie.

[mpiper]

Blu-ray is as VASTLY a superiour technology compared to HD-DVD in every sence. More capacity (both actual and theoretical), more video codecs supported right out of the box, more advanced authoring (Java), ...

HD-DVD had only this as an advantage: marketing, an established name (being DVD). Nice try.

I'm sorry. I've been offline all day, so I've missed a bit. BUT,

Let's look at the BD and HD-DVD specs:
Disc Capacity:
BD: 25, 50 GB
HD-DVD: 15, 30, 51GB (3 layer)

Transfer rate:
BD: Max. 54 mbps
HD-DVD: max. 36 mbps

Encoding:
BD: Mpeg2, Mpeg4 (AVC/H.264), and VC1
HD-DVD: Mpeg2, Mpeg4(avc/H.264), and VC1

Audio formats:
BD: Required - Dolby Digital, DTS, Uncompressed PCM (DD Plus, DTS-HD, and Dolby TrueHD optional by player)
HD-DVD: Required - Dolby Digital, DTS, Uncompressed PCM, DD Plus, DTS-HD, and Dolby TrueHD

Hardware:
BD: Laser - 405nm, Disc - new chemistry/raw materials
HD-DVD: Laser - 405nm, Disc - Same exact chelistry and materials, finer quality production.

Interactivity:
BD: 1.1 spec adds java-based Pic-n-pic and other options. 2.0 spec adds full interactivity to match iHD. (NOTE, 1.0 profile players CANNOT access even the 1.1 profile features, since the second processor was not included in the hardware when the machine was built!)
HD-DVD: iHD - allows full interactivity before, during and after movie. Akin to web-page playing on top of main movie. Mandated and required in initial design specifications of HD-DVD 1.0

Resolution:
BD: 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps at 1920X1080
HD-DVD: 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps at 1920X1080

Regions:
BD: 3, non-interchangable. Out of region discs do NOT play. Period.
HD-DVD: NONE. full interchange between any and all countries in the world.

So, let's review!
Roughly same storage capacity, same average datarate (20mbps for one movie on both discs {hidefdigest.com does reviews and comparisons. one of those mentioned the matching video/data rates for several movies.}), Same video codecs, same basic audio formats, same laser, same video resolution. Seems like they are EXACTLY the same so far.

But wait! BD does NOT require ALL the audio codecs, so bargain players will not play ALL audio formats that EVERY HD-DVD player does. The HD-DVD disc is made of the exact same materials as a DVD (and CD) but the manufacturing has tighter tolerances, since 5 - 6 times to number of "pits" will fit in the space of a single DVD "pit." This close packing of data requires better quality plastics and reflective layers, but they are made of the same stuff. This is basically how Intel and AMD rate their processors. They are all made the same, then tested to see when they fail, and rated below that point. so, a 1.86 Ghz chip is exactly the same as a 2.4 Ghz, but the 2.4 is better quality/less production flaws. Same for HD-DVD discs. BD, on the other hand, decided that this close packing of data required an entirely new chemical composition for the discs. So, they ran off and re-invented the wheel. Same exact use and goal, but NOT producable on pre-existing equipment. And, this never needed to happen.

Let's see, what else? Oh! BD was so concerned with video quality, they totally forgot the lesson that DVD's with interactive features sold VERY well (Disney games, White Rabbit on Matrix, etc.). So, when Hd-DVD included these features, and added new ones, BD had to go back to the drawing board, contact SUN Microsystems to license Java, and came out with a SECOND format spec for players and Disc development. So, every spec 1.0 player has NO ability to access the new features, because the chipset and processor have NO concept of Java. And, comibng soon is 2.0, which adds 1Gb of RAM to the player, so all 1.1 spec players are once again left in the dust. Meanwhile, HD-DVD has had BD2.0 - level features from the beginning and has seen no reason to update the spec. So, HD-DVD shows they planned better in the first place.

BD also decided we needed fences to separate the world. They feel I will never want to watch a movie created for the India market, or the African or australian markets. Even though, with the internet, I can order any product made in any other country in the world. HD-DVD, on the other hand, being the inventors of region codes, realized this hampered sales and eliminated it from the spec entirely!

So, what am I left to decide? HD-DVD took an evolutionary step that met the needs and proven desires of the public. BD did the exact same thing, but had to reinvent several parts that already worked perfectly well! So, why would I want a new technology, that has not been proven durable (heat, wear and tear, oxidation, etc.) when I get the exact same thing with an proven technology that has been around since the introduction of CDs?

Everyone says BD is better? Where? can anyone show me one REALWORLD benefit that is not comparable to, but actually surpasses hd-DVD? Max data rate? yes, it's higher, but if the best quality encoding happens at 30 mbps, who cares about an extra 20 mbps that will not be used. No movie has yet been produced at that bit rate and I sincerely we will ever see one. The visual and audio quality will not be noticeably better, so why spend the time encoding at a higher rate? Aint' gonna happen. So, what else does bluray have that is better than HD-DVD? Java vs. iHD? maybe, but since iHD is basically XML, any invention of web-page design or interactivity can be added with just a firmware update. Same with Java I assume. But Java is a plug-in added afterwards. iHD was an original inclusion.

So, I support HD-DVD for the simple reason it is just as good as BD, but costs less.

Location of my facts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/
http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdbasics/a/bluhddvdinfo.htm
http://www.somacon.com/p116.php
http://www.news.com/FAQ-HD-DVD-vs.-Blu-ray/2100-1041_3-5886956.html
http://www.dvdforum.org/gen-reqspec.htm

Oh, and by the way, I never said Sony was BD. I just said Sony is known to try and create new formats they control to restrict/manipulate the marketplace.

[davidcw]

For me if Blu-Ray wins then everyone loses and that's all there is to it.

Blu-Ray mandates AACS while HD-DVD does not. If Blu-Ray wins and that's the only format then: (1) a lof of smaller independent movies that deserve to be released won't because the AACS license is too costly or (2) they'll be released on HD-DVD if it's still viable but only those people with an HD-DVD player or a dual-format player will be able to view the video.

In the end the small people lose.

I,m surprised how little comment is made about this. I think this is a major issue.
davidcw

[HemLok]

For me if Blu-Ray wins then everyone loses and that's all there is to it.

Blu-Ray mandates AACS while HD-DVD does not. If Blu-Ray wins and that's the only format then: (1) a lof of smaller independent movies that deserve to be released won't because the AACS license is too costly or (2) they'll be released on HD-DVD if it's still viable but only those people with an HD-DVD player or a dual-format player will be able to view the video.

In the end the small people lose.

I,m surprised how little comment is made about this. I think this is a major issue.
davidcw

I had expected some comment but as it stands people, in general, are more interested in debating which format is better which isn't all that shocking.

I prefer HD-DVD for various reasons but rather than wasting my time debating my preference I instead decided to cut to the chase and state the single biggest problem with Blu-Ray, IMHO.

Blu-Ray's mandated use of AACS is harmful to small studios and not taking this into account is an enormous act of stupidity in my book. Time will tell how this problem is resolved or whether the industry even cares to.

[mpiper]

I was debating the technology; but yes, the mandate of AACS is another serious problem with BD.

[RLT69]

I haven't read one good argument why major media companies would not use Blu-ray.

All I have read is ranting that Blu-ray = Sony and Sony is bad and Sony won't allow things.

One more time SONY IS NOT BLU-RAY.

Sony does not control Blu-ray. Anyone can create and distribute Blu-ray content.

The jackass that said Sony wouldn't not make Blu-ray available for Porn, is an idiot. Sony said they, Sony, would not distribute Porn on Blu-ray. That did not mean other companies could not. Any other company can if they want to.

An yes, size does matter because you don't have to use as much compression and can include more material.

FYI it's Hollywood who is pushing for copy protection and HD-DVD support's it too.

Do some research people.

[videopoo]

One more time SONY IS NOT BLU-RAY.

That's fairly incorrect Sony Licenses the abilityand tools to produce BD discs. Sony owns that technology just like you own a house or a car so yes...Blu Ray is Sony.

The jackass that said Sony wouldn't not make Blu-ray available for Porn, is an idiot. Sony said they, Sony, would not distribute Porn on Blu-ray. That did not mean other companies could not. Any other company can if they want to

Yes.. your right....they can.... but they can't afford it,,,,thats my beef with BD......expensive crap that is no better than the less expensive crap.

An yes, size does matter because you don't have to use as much compression and can include more material.

Don't have to use as much compression? Why would they want to do that?

FYI it's Hollywood who is pushing for copy protection and HD-DVD support's it too.

Do some research people.

Sure HD DVD supports copy protection but its not mandatory like it is on BD. Do you have any idea what an AACS license costs? Yes....I agree with you...do some research!

I haven't read one good argument why major media companies would not use Blu-ray

What about costs? You think all these BD titles on shelves were paid for? Sony has offered these services free of charge for over a year now...like I said before, I've lost clients because of this. The bottom line is that you see virtually no independent material on BD. There are several independent HD DVD titles...in fact I will soon be releasing the first surf HD DVD....Too bad is won't be seen as many as I'd like.

HD DVD is dead for good.....too bad...it had potential.

[mpiper]

I haven't read one good argument why major media companies would not use Blu-ray.

So, lower production cost = more profit margin (especially when the subsidizing stops) is NOT a good reason?

One more time SONY IS NOT BLU-RAY.

Sony does not control Blu-ray. Anyone can create and distribute Blu-ray content.

Right. I can create my own BD disc, manually reverse engineer copy protection to add it without licensing, and Sony is NOT going to come after me. Sony owns the copyright to the "invention" and anything using their copyright must be licensed. Sony doesn't own BD. Just like the government doesn't own your house. But both expect you to pay them money for letting you exist in their world. With Sony it's licensing fees. With Houses it's land taxes. They don't own the house, but they own the land and tax you for what you build on "their" land. Look it up. Comercial law applies in both cases.

An yes, size does matter because you don't have to use as much compression and can include more material.

So, if that is true, why don't existing BD movies have higher bandwidth than HD-DVD movies? HD-DVD has less space on dual layer discs, but they have the same or more special features than their BD counterparts. There is not a single BD movie out on both formats that has more content. But several on HD-DVD. And BD only movies don't SEEM (I admit I could be wrong here) to have any extra features above what would fit on a matching HD-DVD. So, at this point in time. the extra BD size is nothing more than a bragging right of "my gun is bigger than your gun."

FYI it's Hollywood who is pushing for copy protection and HD-DVD support's it too.

Hey! you got one right! j/k.
Seriously. The ability to protect is not the issue. it is the requirement. If you had to pay for a tobacco tax every time you bought a lighter (because it came with an automatic pack), even if you don't smoke, would you say, "Hey. I don't mind. Charge me. After all, I MIGHT smoke someday." No, you would say, "Hey, include the cigarettes if people WANT IT, but don't charge me, I don't want them." Support is totally different from required.

Do some research people.

OK. I supplied a list of my sources earlier. So where are yours? Doesn't research require sources?

And, no. I'm not trying to make this personal, or say BD should die a horrible death. I'm saying there is not a single reason BD should be considered BETTER than HD-DVD. I'm also saying I want the HD-DVD format to stay. I have no problem living with two formats. But, I AM saying I want HD-DVD around for a long, long time. I might be a sucker for the underdog, but when people start spouting the company line about how BD is a clearly better product, when they can't provide a single shred of evidence to back them up, or even worse, don't even know enough about both to even be a participant in the conversation, I tend to start firing across their bow. (I don't mean you personally RLT69, you just happened to be the most recent post, and therefore easier to quote.)

I besides, its fun to debate! He He.

[CubDukat]

cal_tony wrote:

I remember reading just recently that Sony indicated that they had no intention of making the BLURAY format avail to the Adult movie industry.

Doesn' matter. Nothing can stop The Porn Supremacy!

They also said that they had no intention of releasing unrated and/or NC-17 movies on Blu-Ray, but then they turned right around and put out "Talledega Nights." They were pulling the exact same trick that Spielberg and Lucas play when they release a major title--they want you to buy every single "new" version of their movies, regardless of how minor the changes are. Sony coulda sold a couple more "Ultraviolet" and "Basic Instinct 2" discs if they did.

Sony is not the end-all/be-all of Blu-Ray...they're just a large, unfortunate part of it.

As for me, I used to be in the HD-DVD camp, but given the events of the past few days, I don't think I want part of a format that is on the verge of collapse because a major studio decides to bail.

[CubDukat]

When the time comes it becomes clear for everyone Blu is the winner, we can say the better format won

Why? Because its a Sony?

Blu-ray is as VASTLY a superiour technology compared to HD-DVD in every sence.

How so? Oh right, because it has soooooooooooooo much more storage space.

All the extra space means nothing (in terms of movies I've always said Blu-Ray has always seemed more appropriate for computer storage use than for movies). Blu-Ray specs still have a maximum allowable video bitrate. So all the space means nothing if you can't use it. All the extra space is useful for is for even more interviews with the key grips and best boys from the movie.

Actually, if anything, Blu-Ray is to HD-DVD what brute force is to finesse.

The reason Blu-Ray has a larger storage capacity is because it was designed around a wasteful codec. Fortunately they figured out that high-bitrate MPEG-2 is not the way to go; even Sony's dumped it for the most part.

Both sides have made their share of mistakes in their rollouts, but Blu-Ray's undeniably had quite a few more of them than HD-DVD. It wouldn't have hurt them to let it wait for another six months until they got the hardware a little more solidified. Even with all its faults, it still whomped on HD-DVD pretty fierce, so imagine just how much more solid that lead could have been if they had just gotten it right before they rolled it out.

What really bugs me about both formats is that neither one of the two formats is offering any support for wither DVD-Audio and/or SACD, and aren't offering many next-gen alternatives. DVD-Audio support is a no-brainer; Dolby TrueHD is based off the same MLP compression that powers DVD-Audio.

[dvd3500]

The only thing that I really liked about HD-DVD was no region locking. Some studios are putting out region-free or all region BRays but not many...

[NICEBUD]

What a load of crap about blue fu**ing ray winning(they said all this shit some time last year).
Do you realize by buying into this blue shit you are giving your hard earned cash away to people that have the right (and they will)
to stop you doing what you want to with this media.DO YOU REALY WANT TO LET fony/sony have total control.Because we all know where that leads.
I personally like HD DVD.Because its alot cheaper.For the same picture qaulty.
As for sales in my local Tesco`s at xmas all the HDDVD players had sold out.Plus nearly all HDDVDS sold out.But poor old blu ray loads of stuff left on the shelves.Went into Tesco`s yesterday all that blue ray is still there.

But any way why carnt they both just get along just like DVD - R and dvd+r did and make a player thats under £100.So the HD REVOLUTION can get started.