Game over, HD-DVD...

[Nilfennasion]

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#whvbrd

Without directly quoting, because I hate copying reams of text, this story basically repeats the fact that Warner have thrown in their lot with the Blu-Ray camp. According to their official PR, they have done so in response to a demonstrated consumer preference for the format (surprise, surprise). I hope Toshiba choke on this. For once, the good guys have won here.

[Rich86]

The good guys? Sony? Give me a break.
Have some sympathy for those of us who could easily end up with useless HD-DVD players shortly.
Warner quoted high def movie sales as being 60% BlueRay and 40% HD-DVD in 2007 in the USA.
For my part - my HD-DVD expenditures will stop - and not be replaced by any BlueRay or standard DVD expenditures.
It's just too big a waste of money - and we're just pawns in big corporate money making schemes anyway.
No more purchases. Standard dvd rentals processed/played via computer and upconverting players.
I already own too many movies on optical media already anyway.

[videopoo]

Once again it goes to prove that those who know nothing of either technologies get to choose (ie: consumers).

Nothing will stifle deliverable HD content more than if Sony control that market. It's sad but if that's what customers choose then so be it. HD DVD is really an open source technology. It's available to everyone - meaning anyone here can go home tonight and begin authoring a title. Only 50 or so people are involved with EVERY Sony title you see on shelves. Now if that's not stifling competing than I don't know what is.

Sony has done all those titles for free as well. I know this to be fact because I've lost clients because of it. I've already had a prospective client call me today to get my opinion on all this....what do I say?

PEOPLE..there's alot of good HD content that won't ever make it to market because of decisions like this. I'm biased though for good reason because DVD / HD DVD is how I make a living

[Nilfennasion]

Yes, Rich, Sony are the good guys in this particular war. And considering that I did minor PR for the DVD format as well as spending countless hours trying to explain to ignorant imbeciles why pictures from DVDs do not "fill up my screen" earlier this decade, you really should consider the implications of me making that statement. Toshiba can suck my fat hairy big one, and I hope this attempt to kill HD on their part helps drive them out of business.

And after their "three step zoom to get rid of the black lines on widescreen movies" ads (among a great many other things), this is no less than Toshiba deserves. I hope that one day, people like a great many on this board can open both eyes and understand that just because a company is not Sony does not mean they cannot do things so evil and anti-consumer that they deserve to bite the big one.

(Edit for outburst-control.)

[jman98]

Yes, indeed the good guys won - not. Reasons why sane people (which does NOT include Nilfennasion) might not be happy with BluRay winning:

1) You can kiss backups goodbye. The current state of the art BD+ system has yet to prove crackable, despite Slysoft's statements to the contrary.
2) BluRay supports region codes (HD DVD does not) and they have already been implemented to restrict sales of BluRay discs to certain regions.

Those 2 alone are pretty much deal breakers for me. I hope you are happy in your non-backup, region code prison Nilfennasion. The wrong guys seem to have won this battle.

[Rich86]

Yes, Rich, Sony are the good guys in this particular war. And considering that I did minor PR for the DVD format as well as spending countless hours trying to explain to ignorant imbeciles why pictures from DVDs do not "fill up my screen" earlier this decade, you really should consider the implications of me making that statement. Toshiba can suck my fat hairy big one, and I hope this attempt to kill HD on their part helps drive them out of business.

And after their "three step zoom to get rid of the black lines on widescreen movies" ads (among a great many other things), this is no less than Toshiba deserves. I hope that one day, people like a great many on this board can open both eyes and understand that just because a company is not Sony does not mean they cannot do things so evil and anti-consumer that they deserve to bite the big one.

(Edit for outburst-control.)

I have no love nor hate for either Sony or Toshiba.
Every critical review of same releases on Blue-Ray and HD-DVD says - they look and sound the same.
Copy protection and region code issues are irrelevant to me - I have no intentions of buying a HD-DVD or Blue Ray drive, burner or media in any hurry. I have never had the need or urge to buy a dvd outside of the region where I live. I have no doubt that by the time devices needed to make backups of high def optical media are available at reasonable prices - the computer programs to make those backups will also be readily available.

My only gripe with Sony is they are completely insensitive and non-supportive of their customers.
They are the Microsoft of the entertainment field - they control the players - the technology - the entertainment available - to who - where - when they feel like it. Why Warner would enter into a partnership with them is beyond me. They are direct competitors. I expect there were very good reason$$$ (aka bribes).

My gripe with this whole debacle is that the announcement comes after the holiday buying season, where price incentives and giveaways convinced many of us to make the leap to HD-DVD and help clear out Warner, Toshiba, Amazon, etc. inventories. I am one of the suckers. What a waste of time and money.

Many of us will decide we're done wasting money buying high def optical media based content. If HD-DVD is dead - why waste the money? Sony will continue to charge whatever they can get away with - which is even more now - with very limited high def competition. Rental standard def dvd's on computers and upconverting high def systems look better to me than ever.

[ricoman]

Couldn't have said it better myself Rich86. I have no animosity for Sony, I have a Sony HDTV, but you have to admit they are the 800 lb. gorilla these days. That was a good analogy with Microsoft. I also am one of those suckers that bought an HD player last month and wish this news was a little sooner. How do you figure, HD format is cheaper to make and didn't take a major change of equipment for DVD manufacturers. You would think that this would mean a larger profit margin for them since they are basically the same price as BD videos. So much for logic.

[CubDukat]

I'll have to admit that I am no fan of Sony. From their blatantly anti-consumer attitude to their outright dishonesty (the rootkit debacle and theri first demo of Blu-Ray on a laptop), they have earned a special place on my permanent shitlist, right next to Microsoft.

That being said, I have to say that Blu-Ray has managed to do an amazing turn-around from where it was when it started out. Now that they seemed to have dumped high-bitrate MPEG-2 for the most part, the format's really showing its promise. As far as quality, I can't tell the difference between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, unless I'm looking at an older Blu-Ray title; then I can tell. The larger size of Blu-Ray can be put to better use with more efficient compression.

As flawed as Blu-Ray's rollout was (and still is), HD-DVD's had its share of mistakes, too. I've always wondered about the near total lack of any HD-DVD-only players that aren't Toshiba. Yes, there's the Venturer model, but from what I've read--and I could be wrong--that's also made by Toshiba. The last time a manufacturer tried to singlehandedly carry a technology didn't work so good--just ask Pioneer.

I guess about the best I can say about this is that it makes my choice of a primary format easier. Obviously I'm going to get titles in both formats because right now, neither format has all the titles I want in one format or the other. But I'm gonna start going heavier on the Blu-Ray titles.

[Nilfennasion]

Wow, and people wonder why I would ask someone else's opinion if most of the individuals here told me the sky was blue.

Oh yeah, and BD+ is not Sony's idea. It is Fox's. Sorry to shoot down the "Sony = evil" line again. They said CSS was uncrackable, too. Then Xing got careless. I never thought I would accuse myself of being a realist, but people here... Jesus.

[russkelp]

I won't be buying either format for awhile. How many people have the equipment to take advantage of either of these formats. I have 3 HDTV's, a 30", a 40" and a 37" all of them 720 or 1080i, so what advantage would these offer for the investment. Not enough to justify them, when I can get an upconverting DVD player in a case that's half the size. Plus there are no HD recorders availiable, which is what I am really interested in.

However, I am glad that Toshiba/Microsoft are failing in their efforts to bring forth a new standard. And it's good that Warner's decided to help move this process along, for the good of everyone, unlike Paramount who took money to try to breathe new life into a dying HD-DVD.

Not that I love Sony either, but they seem to be advancing the technology, instead of just slightly improving an old format, making it cheaper than the competing format, and then using money and other means to force their format on the market. Cheaper is not better.

A lot of people talk about this format war as if one of the formats will win. To me, these both are stop gaps until something that shows people a reason to switch to a format other than DVD becomes availiable. Obviously digital downloads are the future, the question is when does that happen in a way that people will become interested.

[videopoo]

Digital downloads are so far into the future it's not really fair to talk about it. Remember VHS was the standard 7 years ago. Lets discuss what will happen now not in 7 or 8 years - a long time.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I have a HD DVD player and I'm dissapointed by Warner's decision but I will still enjoy HD and SD DVD's for years to come.Arguing which format is better is pointless because,without competition,we the consumers get screwed.
Sony et al now have no incentive to lower the price of players and media.I refuse to buy any HDM from either format and will rent from now on.

[ricoman]

Wow, and people wonder why I would ask someone else's opinion if most of the individuals here told me the sky was blue.

Oh yeah, and BD+ is not Sony's idea. It is Fox's. Sorry to shoot down the "Sony = evil" line again. They said CSS was uncrackable, too. Then Xing got careless. I never thought I would accuse myself of being a realist, but people here... Jesus.

I have no idea what you just said, but it seems like you are attacking the people here that are having a discussion. If you have nothing productive to say, why bother? To quote your by-line, I am "Disinterested".

[Midzuki]

russkelp wrote:

Obviously digital downloads are the future

So sure As for "obviously" --- how and why

I think it would be more productive to start planning a new "business model"
in which there will be no place at all for copyright whores/purchasers.

*****

[dodonoghue]

Strange how in the long run the victor generally becomes the good guy.

For the record I was in the HD-DVD camp. Im not looking forward to the reign of blue-ray. I want the Dark Knight on HD-DVD at the end of the year. I feel deprived now.

[j1d10t]

While this is interesting, it's also kind of funny. What is funny is so many people are ready to say the format war is over because of ___________ (insert your own reason here). Look at when Paramount and Dreamworks said they were going with HD DVD - all of the sudden it was "HD DVD has won the format war!" Now it's "Game over, HD DVD". Wait a while and I'm sure something else will happen that will either even things out, or turn the tables.

I really doubt this is the end of the format war. I doubt this is even the first nail in the coffin. If it is, then I will be very surprised

[BoilerUp]

For once, the good guys have won here.

Todd: Hey, guys, this is that moment. The moment that only exists in sports. The moment where the good guys take on the bad guys. The moment that, if this was a speech in a movie, this would be shown up on tho humongotron to get the home-team fans fired up, huh? Right? Huh, huh? Us versus them!
All of them: Yeah.
Todd: We're the bad guys and they're the good guys. And I'll be damned if we're gonna let the good guys win!
Barry: Yeah, we're actually the good guys and they're the bad guys, so...
Todd: Right. Let me start that again, guys, huh? Hey, guys...

The sad thing is that I own that movie (Beerfest) on HD-DVD even though it's available on both formats

[FulciLives]

Well I was kinda in the HD-DVD camp as well ... didn't have either format ... just thought that HD-DVD made "more sense" than Blu-Ray ...

BUT

I bought a PS3 as a Christmas 2007 present to myself and I couldn't help it ... I've bought one Blu-Ray disc (the 5 disc BLADE RUNNER set) and I've rented two now from NetFlix (300 and CRANK).

I have my eye on two other Blu-Ray titles that I consider "essential" purchases but I'm gonna try to keep it a NetFlix thing unless it is something I simply MUST have.

Hell I've been through Beta/VHS then LaserDisc then DVD and now this ... my wallet can't take very much more LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I bought the PS3 primarily as a game console but since it has Blu-Ray built-in ... I can't help myself LOL

[videopoo]

Let the bleeding begin:

Lost a big project worth over $25K this afternoon because of the announcement. I guess we'll all have to happy with studio produced crap on HD disc for awhile. Pssffftt!....Spider Man? I can't think of anything less I'd like to watch on my HD screen.

MAYBE independent producers and authoring guys like myself will be able to afford BD in about 3-4 years or so.

I'm so sad...I had so many good projects on the table that no one will be able to enjoy now.

[SatStorm]

So, it is time to switch to EVD (Enhanced Versatile Disc)!

[MozartMan]

MAYBE independent producers and authoring guys like myself will be able to afford BD in about 3-4 years or so.

What? You can't afford Ulead DVD Movie Factory 6+ with HD pack with Blu-ray authoring for a $100??????
Oh man, that's cheap!

Oh, you probably enjoyed authoring 3x DVDs.

Well, you are going to miss about 8 million potential customers (who bought PS3, which is one of the best Blu-ray player) plus more who bought stand alone BD players.
But if you author for HD DVD, you only have about 800,000 potential customers.

[videopoo]

I do this for a living Mozart. I need professional tools. Scenarist ACA is an affordable tool for me. BD is not.
It's not about potential customers, its about what me and my clients can afford.

[MozartMan]

I do this for a living Mozart. I need professional tools. Scenarist ACA is an affordable tool for me. BD is not.

You can afford Scenarist for $5000 and can't afford BD burner for $400?

[videopoo]

Scenarist ACA runs $30K. Cinevision runs another $30K. Sony's BD tool is about a quarter million not counting the encoder....see where my problem with Sony and BD lie? No offense but...I don't think you understand the investment it takes to produce HD DVD or BD discs.

[MozartMan]

Scenarist ACA runs $30K. Cinevision runs another $30K. Sony's BD tool is about a quarter million not counting the encoder....see where my problem with Sony and BD lie? No offense but...I don't think you understand the investment it takes to produce HD DVD or BD discs.

$250,000 for Sony Blu-Print? Where did you get that number?

It looks to me like $50,000 only.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/03/sony-releases-blu-print-blu-ray-authoring-software/

[beric3236]

I have been watching with great interest this HD war. My understanding from a layman's aspect is that if I go to Hi def be it blu-ray or HD I need a new TV set that is 1080p/i that is 40" or better and a HD/Blu-ray player in order to enjoy it. That said I just got done watching Spiderman 3 on a regular DVD and was able to watch some of the same scenes on a 50" HD tv at Sam's club. Unfortunately for me, I could not tell the difference between the two. I will admit that the HD version did look a little sharper, but not enough to justify the expense of jumping into the fray as far as purchasing both the player and the tv. I guess it is people like me that BOTH camps are going to have to convince me to spend my hard earned cash on that particular format. I am sitting on the side lines just watching and maybe chuckling a little at all the hype on it. And as some one else earlier said I have a not so miner investment in regular DVD's.

[videopoo]

$250,000 for Sony Blu-Print? Where did you get that number?

It looks to me like $50,000 only.

Yep...that's incorrect...plus it's ancient post from engadgethd.com of all places to get the most up to date info

Free trial version? HA HA...thats a joke

[Delerious]

$250,000 for Sony Blu-Print? Where did you get that number?

It looks to me like $50,000 only.

Yep...that's incorrect...plus it's ancient post from engadgethd.com of all places to get the most up to date info

Free trial version? HA HA...thats a joke

Here's the press release from Sony http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/news/showrelease.asp?releaseid=634&catid= Don't know if the price has gone up since then. Here's where you request a Trial https://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/corporate/contact.asp?id=35

[mpiper]

Just have to add my 2 cents.

I am firmly in the HD-DVD camp. And here are my reasons:
+HD-DVD used existing technology and all parts can be produced with existing factories and raw materials.
+ HD-DVD production runs about $1.xx per disc for comercial production, BD rund $3.XX. But Sony, et al. are subsidizing the costs until HD-DVD dies and then they will jack prices back up to recoup the losses.
+ BD and HD-DVD use the EXACT same encoding technology (video codecs) and usually at the same bit rate, so the extra size of BD (2 layer) is never actually used.
+BD didn't plan well when they went into production and had to re-invent their code/firmware/etc. to allow PNP and all the other things HD-DVD had NATIVELY (look at 300 for best example).
+BD requires components that are harder and more expensive to produce. Remember when PS3, s disappeared for a while because the production lines stiopped because they RAN OUT of materials to make them? The BD players also stopped for the same reason.
+ HD-DVD is, quite simply, an evolutionary step in an existing, proven technology, while BD is an attempt to invent a better mouse trap. with the mousetrap being overly expenmsive to produce, the first generation of trap is already obsolete (gen 1 BD won't consistently play new spec bonus features, due to lack of planning).
+ Sony has repeatedly created new formats (atrac, DAT, Memory stick, etc.) that are counter to the public good, and early adopters lost out when their new gadget became obsolete and un-replacable in just a year.
+ BD hardware and media will NEVER be as cheap as HD-DVD parts, simply due to the raw material costs. so this is automatically increasing the price needlessly. Just check any store. BD movie - $39. Blank BD disk- $35. HD-DVD movie $24.95. Blank HD-DVD - $19.
+ HD-DVD media and burners are NOT readily available. BUT, the prices quoted are below prices for BD versions. (again, the component costs?)

So, we have a better system (economically), that is being euthanised by artificial pricing and market manipulation.

Long Live HD-DVD!!

[videopoo]

I would more or less agree with the above post. I would add:

+ HD DVD allows A VARIETY individuals to explore the spec. Sony will license you the technology at a steep price.

I've said this before - Very few individuals in the world are directly related in producing ALL the BD titles on shelves. These folks decide how how the menus look and interact/navigate. What disc features you see and will be provided to you., ect.

Basically...every HD title you see will have to go through the "brass" at Sony one way or another.

On top of all that, it locks out several content owners. There are tons of, well shot, HD programming. I personally am not into most studio titles whether it be BD or HD DVD. There's a whole market out there for "independent" programming which want to release BD but can't at this point.