Advice on a Down Converter for 16:9 Broadcasts

[Plarocks]

Hello,

I have decided to bite the bullet and purchase an HD downcoverter so that I can once again properly record a 16:9 broadcast in Anamorphic Widescreen on my Pioneer DVD-R Recorder.

(Note that you can do this without an HD down converter box when use an HD DirecTV box.. Think about that before you switch to cable or FIOS!!!)

I have been able to find two of them:

http://www.svideo.com/videoscaler.html

http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/product.php?productid=17169

Has anyone used either of these to convert the 16:9 image in 720p or 1080i from a FIOS or Cable Box into a 480i "Anamorphic Widescreen" image?

Does one box work better for this than the other?

Any advice is appreciated

Peter (Plarocks)

[Nelson37]

Those products would appear to be an expensive way to create what I already get from the S-video output on my DirecTV HD receiver. For free. 16:9 anamorphic output, throw in the real-time IVTC from my capture card and voila, 480p, 24fps, 16:9.

[Plarocks]

Yeah.. I KNOW!

Unfortunately, I had no idea that the crappy Verizon FIOS boxes would NOT output a 16:9 image through the S-VIDEO no matter what setting you have it on.

I would just go back, but then I am out $200 (I foolishly signed the contract) and then I have to hire someone to run some extra RG4 cable in the walls..(I don't have a Cable Fish or the proper tools)

So now I am stuck forking out the $500 to get the same thing I got with DirecTV for free...

Live and Learn.

Peter (Plarocks)

P.S. Before I fork out the cash, I wanted to know if someone on this board has ever used one. For such a high price tag, I am expecting a perfect 480i down conversion in "Stretch" mode like on the old Direct TV box.

[Krispy Kritter]

You may have better luck in a more hardware related forum such as the avsforum.

[Plarocks]

Thanks KK,

I re-posted the question in the AVSforums in the DVD Recorder section.

The only other option I can think of is purchasing a D-VHS VCR.

But even those units do NOT have a component video input!
However, I can connect the FIOS box to the D-VHS deck using the IEEE-1394 input.

However, can I then actually aquire the "Anamorphic Widescreen" image when I play back the 16:9 format recording through the S-VIDEO out on one of these machines? Or do I still need to buy the downconverter?
(Which would then make the D-VHS VCR Moot for me then.. as ideally I want these broadcasts on DVD-R in Anamorphic Widescreen)

Plarocks

[wabjxo]

Playrocks, here are two threads in AVS Forum that might be of interest:

Cheaper Component-to-S-Video Converter

Poor Man's Component to S-Video Converter

[jjeff]

So let me understand your problem.
Your new FIOS box only outputs 16X9 through it's Component outputs, which are also only HD, not SD? And the S-out is SD, but not WS? Can't you configure the S-out for letterboxed WS, or does it just crop off the sides of the image? Sorry, I've never seen FIOS, but would like to learn more.
Saw your post on AVS, so far no bites. Hopefully you'll have some luck there. It's a lively place, for the most part.
Edit:
Never mind, Wabjxo's post answered my questions. I hadn't updated my screen since he added his post. His first link answered my questions. Sure stupid of a cable box that can't output WS via S-out, but I suppose you already know that

[Plarocks]

Hey wabjxo,

Thanks for the links

I would love to use the cheaper Apple TV converter or to find one of those old DVD Recorders with a component input. The only problem is when I have the Fios box in 480i, the box puts the black bars at the top and bottom of the image, even when going through the component video out.

I was able to hook up just the "Black" output of the "component video outs" of the Fios Box to the "composite video in" on my video recorder. The black bars were still there.

Only when I switched the box to 720p 16:9 or 1080i 16:9 the bars would go away and the screen would be in the proper "Stretch"... However very distorted in this case as I need to scale the image down with a proper downconverter.

I just wish there was a "Cheaper" way to get the damn "Anamorphic Widescreen" (or vertical stretch screen) from this Fios box in 480i.

Anyone know of a hard reset, or some sort of other hidden menu to force the QIP6416-2 FIOS box to spit out the 16:9 image through the component video out when set at 480i ?
It only seems to do this properly when I am using 720p or 1080i...and that will not work without using $500 downconverter/scaler.

Peter

[Plarocks]

Hey Jjeff

>>So let me understand your problem.
Your new FIOS box only outputs 16X9 through it's Component outputs, which are also only HD, not SD?<<

Yup, and only in HD 720p or HD 1080i. When I put the Fios Box in 480p or 480i, it puts the bars at the top and bottom, even through the component video out.

>>And the S-out is SD, but not WS?<<

WS.. but Letterbox only. It will not generate the "Anamorphic Widescreen" or Vertical Stretch image in 480i through the S-VHS or even the Component Video out.

>> Can't you configure the S-out for letterboxed WS, or does it just crop off the sides of the image?<<

It ONLY outputs the letterboxed WS. There are no "Crop" or "Stretch" settings like on the HD DirecTV box. If I had the "stretch" setting, or was able to flip the entire box into 16:9 mode, I would not have these problems. (The HD DirecTV boxes have all of these settings)

>>Sorry, I've never seen FIOS, but would like to learn more. <<

The current crop of FIOS TV boxes will not allow you to record a proper Anamorphic Widescreen DVD-R. You can record a 4:3 Letterboxed DVD-R, but this does not look right when you play the DVD-R on a Widescreen TV. I have to buy a $500 downconverter/scaler to do the same thing the DirecTV box did "For Free".

>>Saw your post on AVS, so far no bites. Hopefully you'll have some luck there. It's a lively place, for the most part. <<

Yeah.. I pretty much know what the answer is. I have to buy a Downconverter. I just wonder which one of the two is the "Better" one. Another alternative could be using one of those D-VHS VCR's if I could get the "Vertical Stretch" from the S-Video out on one of those decks.
But, I have never used one of those machines. I have no idea if they do that.

>>Edit:
Never mind, Wabjxo's post answered my questions. I hadn't updated my screen since he added his post. His first link answered my questions. Sure stupid of a cable box that can't output WS via S-out, but I suppose you already know that <<


Just 4:3 letterbox. The FIOS box will not let you take off the black bars that it imposes on the image.

Check out the pictures in this thread:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic338234.html?highlight=recording%20hdtv%20dvd


Peter

[wabjxo]

Has anyone recommended the Polaroid DRM-2001G. It's a 2006 model still available in places and has component inputs. One person uses his just to get a WS image to his better Toshiba recorder. There are apparently models with letters A, B. C etc. and a difference between the early A and B series compared to later ones is the later ones are able to pass the component signal on to S-Vid or composite while OFF, and weak or non-existant copy protection on early ones, I think?

There are many posts in a thread on AVS Forum, but here are a couple in the thread you need:

One

Two

Check that thread for more info... sounds like what you need?

[AzAssassin]

I hope this is not inappropriate of me to be posting a response in this thread, and I apologize if it is; but I have the exact same issue as this thread was created for by the original poster. So, I am wondering if he, or anyone else, found out of a way to get a 16:9 Widescreen signal from the Output of a FiOS Motorola HD-DVR to the Input of a DVD Recorder?

I have the exact same FiOS Motorola Set Top Box/HD-DVR as the original poster (the Motorola QIO-6416-2), but I also have the Polaroid DRM-2001G DVD Recorder with Component Video Inputs - However, even with the Polaroid DRM2001G's Component Video INputs, I am still not able to actually receive the 16:9 Widescreen signal from my FiOS Motorola HD-DVR, because (as the original poster previously stated) it only outputs a 16:9 Anamorphic Widescreen signal while set at .720p or .1080i; and, apparently, the Component Video INputs on the Polaroid DRM-2001G will NOT accept/recognize a signal set at .720p nor .1080i. I believe it stop recognizing the signal at .480p, although it may only accept only .480i (I haven't checked recently, and it's not actually relevant, since I can not get my FiOS HD-DVR to send a 16:9 Widescreen signal at .480p nor .480i).

So, is there now a way, as of December 20th 2010, to get the 16:9 Widescreen Output signal from an HD-DVR and downscale/convert it to .480i, so that I will be able to use the Component Video Inputs on the Polaroid DRM-2001G DVD Recorder? Or, what seems to be a more feasible/plausible possibility, would be to try one of the Converters that will accept a Component Video Input (at .720p or .1080i) and then send it out the Ouput via S-Video or Composite cable. However, will a converter that does this actually keep the signal exactly the same as it is being sent out from the FiOS Motorola HD-DVR?

To clarify, I record and collect lots of Boxing broadcasts, mostly from HBO and Showtime (particularly their HD Channels on FiOS), and I am hoping to be able to record their broadcasts in 16:9 Anamorphic Widescreen, where the picture covers the entire TV screen, without the black bars visible anywhere. My main DVD Recorders are a Panasonic DMR-EZ28 and a Panasonic DMR-EA18. Neither of these Panasonic Recorders has Component Video INputs, so I bought the Polaroid DRM2001G (which does have Component Video INputs) specifically in hopes of using it as a pass-thru device to my Panasonic DVD Recorder. However, being that the Polaroid DRM-2001G's Component Video Inputs will not accept the Widescreen Output signal from my FiOS HD-DVR, since it has to be set at .720p or .1080i, I would be happyjust finding a way to convert the COmponent Video Output from my FiOS HD-DVR to Si-Video or Composite Video and then connecting it directly to the S-Cideo or Composit Video INput on my panasonic DVD Recorder.

I am pretty poor these days, so I am hoping/trying to find a reasonably cheap converter that will actually convert/transfer the HD-Source 16:9 Widescreen signal over to S-Video or Composite Video and keep the quality close to what it originally is from my FiOS HD-DVR's output. By reasonably cheap, I would like to find one for under $100, if that is possible, and $50-$60, or less, would be really fantastic.

I apologize for the lengthy post. My O.C.D. often gets the better of me. If you are reading this and you have any ideas/suggestions/advice, please do let me know. Feel free to send me a PM through here, or to shoot me an e-mail directly at billyjackaz@gmail.com


Edit: Does anyone know if this Shinybow Converter would work for I need for my HD-Source Widescreen issue? And does anyone know if it is a good-quality Converter?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Component-RGBHV-RCA-Composite-S-Video-Down-Converter-/230446224654...item35a7aa550e



Thanks very much for reading my post.

- AzAssassin, a.k.a. BillyJackAz

[jagabo]

Hollywood is slowly but surely closing all the analog loopholes. In a few years devices won't have any analog outputs at all. This is the whole reason they forced the adoption of HDMI (encryption). They want to eliminate your ability to record any broadcast.

You'll eventually need something like the Mux HD and an HD Fury II.

It looks like they forced curtpalme.com to stop selling the Mux HD.

[DeepOne]

I am pretty poor these days, so I am hoping/trying to find a reasonably cheap converter that will actually convert/transfer the HD-Source 16:9 Widescreen signal over to S-Video or Composite Video and keep the quality close to what it originally is from my FiOS HD-DVR's output. By reasonably cheap, I would like to find one for under $100, if that is possible, and $50-$60, or less, would be really fantastic.

I have one of these. It works.

[jjeff]

I also tried one and while it did as advertised I wasn't really thrilled with the PQ. It does meet his low PP though.
How I tested it was with my DVD player. I played a good quality DVD and looked at my DVD players S-video output, it was very good. Next I hooked the MP converter to the same DVD players component output(set to 4801 and 480p). The quality out of the MP converters S-video output wasn't nearly as good as the S-video directly from my DVD player.
After I returned my converter someone suggested I should have tried feeding the converter HD but my DVD player only outputs 480p from component and I have nothing that outputs HD over component, so I couldn't have tried. Personally I would think it may have looked worse, after all the converter would have to do more conversions.
Azassin did say "keep the quality close to what it originally is from my FiOS HD-DVR's output"
Although I'd think you'd have to pay closer to $200 to get anything much better......

[DeepOne]

After I returned my converter someone suggested I should have tried feeding the converter HD but my DVD player only outputs 480p from component and I have nothing that outputs HD over component, so I couldn't have tried. Personally I would think it may have looked worse, after all the converter would have to do more conversions.

I'm feeding mine HD component output from an HD-DVR. Of course, it doesn't look as good as HD as it ends up being SD, but it retains the 16:9 aspect ratio (which is why I wanted it). It looks far better than the composite output from the HD-DVR (which is letterboxed 4:3). I think the result is close enough to DVD quality. If there are minor color issues, I might not notice them though (I have a bit of red/green color blindness).