VideoHelp Forum

Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Consider supporting us by disable your adblocker or Try ConvertXtoDVD and convert all your movies to DVD. Free trial ! :)
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2
FirstFirst 1 2
Results 31 to 54 of 54
Thread
  1. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Hard to say, 40mb should be possible without BIG problems with most drives (readers).
    With Plextors, you can overburn some DVD+R media up to nearly 5000mb!!! But that is just geek'ness.
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member mats.hogberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sweden (PAL)
    Search Comp PM
    OK. So - some part of a percent extra without BIG problems...

    /Mats
    Quote Quote  
  3. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    But its not worth the trouble.
    I would either use DL or shrink the content a bit........
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
    Quote Quote  
  4. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    4.6MB is a typo for 4.6GB, in my educated guess. Hence answers about not burning 4.6GB. The limit is 4.38GB and for good reason.

    Official NTSC specs don't call for MP2, but official PAL specs do. There is nothing limiting NTSC from adding MP2, but nothing specifically supporting it. On the other hand, there is a limit to how much data is to be put onto a DVD-Video disc. There is a minimum too, requiring long lead-outs for small discs. The MP2 audio thing is an aspect of the MPEG decoders, while the disc size is limited by other factors. So you cannot compare them.

    I don't understand the sudden stupidity I've seen on this site lately. Either do things correctly or don't do them at all. Quit screwing up discs for no good reason. Sure as hell don't suggest others join in on your harebrained schemes.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    lordsmurf wrote:

    "I don't understand the sudden stupidity I've seen on this site lately. Either do things correctly or don't do them at all. Quit screwing up discs for no good reason. Sure as hell don't suggest others join in on your harebrained schemes."

    You should run for President of the US. You have about as much intellectual curiosity as George Bush.

    The only reason to over burn is for copy protection. If you just want to put more on the DVD then shrink more.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    So I'm really late, by years, but a general update:

    1) Overburning can be done, on + and - media despite what you may read elsewhere

    2) If your burner supports overburning, your burner will probably read the overburnt disc

    3) Overburnt DVD VIDEO discs will probably play in 60-75% of standalone players, and upwards of 90% of computer drives; depending on WHO YOUR READ the numbers from. Overburnt data discs are almost always readable by computer drives

    4) Overburning is ALWAYS risky, but good software (IMGBurn, Nero, ISOBuster...) allow for a true raw data verification. If it verifies good, then you're good. Period.

    5) DVD specifications are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you like the reasons or not. When you violate the specs, it's no longer that item. An overburnt DVD-Video disc is no longer a DVD-Video disc. It's an optical disc on a DVD that happens to use the DVD-Video file structure. That's not a bad thing on it's own, just accept that you are burning a modified, or hybrid disc.

    6) I've had around 50/50 success with overburns on DVD + media, with better rates on Ty and Verb media, and lower on standard media. I've also found a 100% failure rate on Playo.
    I've found that less than 20% of my - attempts work to any extent.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member Seeker47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    drifting, somewhere on the Sea of Cynicism
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lostinlodos
    So I'm really late, by years, but a general update:

    1) Overburning can be done, on + and - media despite what you may read elsewhere

    2) If your burner supports overburning, your burner will probably read the overburnt disc

    3) Overburnt DVD VIDEO discs will probably play in 60-75% of standalone players, and upwards of 90% of computer drives; depending on WHO YOUR READ the numbers from. Overburnt data discs are almost always readable by computer drives

    4) Overburning is ALWAYS risky
    . . .
    If it verifies good, then you're good. Period.
    I never deliberately set out to do this, but wound up with that result inadvertently a couple times. It was a DVD that Explorer or my file manager program says is 4.6 or 4.7 -- maybe even a 4.8. At this point, I don't recall what program created them, or what the circumstances were. (A good guess would be Shrink-using-Nero, or ImgBurn.) These discs may be stuffed to the gills, but have played wherever I tried to play them -- not just in the computer.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lostinlodos
    So I'm really late, by years, but a general update:

    1) Overburning can be done, on + and - media despite what you may read elsewhere

    2) If your burner supports overburning, your burner will probably read the overburnt disc

    3) Overburnt DVD VIDEO discs will probably play in 60-75% of standalone players, and upwards of 90% of computer drives; depending on WHO YOUR READ the numbers from. Overburnt data discs are almost always readable by computer drives

    4) Overburning is ALWAYS risky, but good software (IMGBurn, Nero, ISOBuster...) allow for a true raw data verification. If it verifies good, then you're good. Period.

    5) DVD specifications are there for a reason. It doesn't matter if you like the reasons or not. When you violate the specs, it's no longer that item. An overburnt DVD-Video disc is no longer a DVD-Video disc. It's an optical disc on a DVD that happens to use the DVD-Video file structure. That's not a bad thing on it's own, just accept that you are burning a modified, or hybrid disc.

    6) I've had around 50/50 success with overburns on DVD + media, with better rates on Ty and Verb media, and lower on standard media. I've also found a 100% failure rate on Playo.
    I've found that less than 20% of my - attempts work to any extent.
    How did you overburn a DVD-R disc??
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member Seeker47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    drifting, somewhere on the Sea of Cynicism
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by [_chef_
    ]
    How did you overburn a DVD-R disc??
    Perhaps lostinlodos knows; I wasn't quite sure how it happened in my case. (See my post from June.)
    However, I've burned things to single layer -R that totaled around 4.4 or so, which is supposed to be "full up." When ImgBurn calculated the size, it said something like 92 %. Ergo, there must be some extra capacity there beyond the official 4.46, or whatever it is. I understand that it may not be wise to use that additional space, but if it happens it is not automatically and for sure a disaster.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Seeker47
    Perhaps lostinlodos knows; I wasn't quite sure how it happened in my case.
    Originally Posted by [_chef_
    ] How did you overburn a DVD-R disc??
    The program I've used on the RARE ocasion of overburning, with near total success is ISOBuster. A damaged-disc and image recovery tool. Well worth the small price in my book, it can recover anything, burn anything, and does bit-by-bit verification, from out to in and in reverse.

    Beyond that for other software
    , just set the advanced tab in Nero to allow for overburning supported media, and below that check the box that says allow burning on non-supported media.

    For ImgBurn, use a totalling tool like nerodiscrescue (free) to find out the real size of the space on the disc. When burning the image, make sure you have enough space from the totalling program for the size of the image in bytes. Then check off the box when you go to burn the disc that tells you it's to big and asks if it should try anyway.


    ALWAYS leave 6 kilobytes extra "real world" space for standalone DVD/CD players and audio disc players. That's the standard laser lead from what I picked up at AVS.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    @seeker
    Sometimes file sizes are just reported wrong. I've seen commercial DVDs that insist more than 9GB are on the disc. It's clearly an error.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member Seeker47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    drifting, somewhere on the Sea of Cynicism
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    @seeker
    Sometimes file sizes are just reported wrong. I've seen commercial DVDs that insist more than 9GB are on the disc. It's clearly an error.
    O.K., then -- you would probably know the answer to this. I have a few non-standard, "oversize" CD blanks (90 - 100 min.s, vs. the normal 80 min.s) that I bought a few years ago at a computer show. Fina ? Fino ? I'm not sure of the brand, but believe it starts with an "F." Since these exist, I thought there might have been some "extended" length music CDs that have been released at different times by major record labels. [Edit: In fact, I have one live concert CD on my desk right now, from a major label. The liner notes say tracks were added back for this "special, extended edition" that they did not have room for on the original CD release, years ago. Clearly, they did this to have some renewed reason for sales of this title. But it's still all on one disc, and I don't think they played games with compression or bitrate to do this. How would I get a reliable capacity measurement for this disc ?]

    IF that is true, why could this not also be the case for some commercial DVDs ? If such blanks exist and they are not too deviant from spec, Warner Bros. or whomever might have used them on occasion, and that could explain your anomalous readings ?
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    No, not true for DVD, not as you suggest.

    CD has a bit more leeway. I believe it's out-of-spec, too, when done. Not part of the book standards for Audio CD. Anyway, you can get 99-minute CD, both as press and burn. I forget the technical off-hand (would have to look it up), because people don't really do it that often -- most know how non-standard it is. Players often reject those discs, either entirely or partially.

    And while you'd think a major label would stick to the specs, Sony and Disney don't always do it, among others. And they've been rightly lambasted for it, when caught.
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    I had a CD-RW drive "back in the day" that warned that overburned discs could damage some drives

    Is there any risk w/ DVD overburned discs?

    ocgw

    peace
    i7 2700K @ 4.4Ghz 16GB DDR3 1600 Samsung Pro 840 128GB Seagate 2TB HDD EVGA GTX 650
    https://forum.videohelp.com/topic368691.html
    Quote Quote  
  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Yes, you can harm any drive by overburning.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by lostinlodos
    Originally Posted by Seeker47
    Perhaps lostinlodos knows; I wasn't quite sure how it happened in my case.
    Originally Posted by [_chef_
    ] How did you overburn a DVD-R disc??
    The program I've used on the RARE ocasion of overburning, with near total success is ISOBuster. A damaged-disc and image recovery tool. Well worth the small price in my book, it can recover anything, burn anything, and does bit-by-bit verification, from out to in and in reverse.

    Beyond that for other software
    , just set the advanced tab in Nero to allow for overburning supported media, and below that check the box that says allow burning on non-supported media.

    For ImgBurn, use a totalling tool like nerodiscrescue (free) to find out the real size of the space on the disc. When burning the image, make sure you have enough space from the totalling program for the size of the image in bytes. Then check off the box when you go to burn the disc that tells you it's to big and asks if it should try anyway.


    ALWAYS leave 6 kilobytes extra "real world" space for standalone DVD/CD players and audio disc players. That's the standard laser lead from what I picked up at AVS.
    What utter Bull$H!T...

    For one thing, ISOBuster DOES NOT BURN DISCS. I love it as well as the next guy, but these claims are just lies.

    For another, the LEADOUT on CDs and DVDs are different. On CDs, the spec says 90seconds @1x = 6750 sectors @ 2352bytes/sector > 15MB. Big difference from 6kB. On a DVD, it varies depending upon whether single or dual layer, etc. but the minimum is 1.0mm in width (whatever that amounts to...quite complicated) unless the total is less than 1GB, in which case it MUST pad out to 1GB to be compliant.

    And those apps mentioned still don't really tell the whole story AFA disc space used...

    Get real, and use a little science.

    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    So, I dare to ressurrect this thread....

    AFAIK, and I'm not really wiser than before.

    DVD-R overburn as we specify it is not possible without hw tweaking, DVD+R overburning is possible with a bunch of drives, mainly BenQ/Plextor.
    OK, I just need to add, in the days when 4x DVD-R media was top notch, I grabbed some (fromUK, IIRC), that showed me a free space of 4496mb max, which is more than you expect even from a good DVD-R SL (DVD5).

    Any comments please?!
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
    Quote Quote  
  18. Member Seeker47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    drifting, somewhere on the Sea of Cynicism
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by [_chef_] View Post
    So, I dare to ressurrect this thread....

    AFAIK, and I'm not really wiser than before.

    DVD-R overburn as we specify it is not possible without hw tweaking, DVD+R overburning is possible with a bunch of drives, mainly BenQ/Plextor.
    OK, I just need to add, in the days when 4x DVD-R media was top notch, I grabbed some (fromUK, IIRC), that showed me a free space of 4496mb max, which is more than you expect even from a good DVD-R SL (DVD5).

    Any comments please?!
    I've mentioned this here before, but I have made -R DVDs that (according to Explorer, and other tools) had 4600 or 4700 in content recorded on them. I can't tell you how with any certainty, because it was strictly accidental, and not the result of any deliberate overburning attempt. Nor am I at all confident I could duplicate this now, even if I set out to, because I have no idea what steps to retrace. My best guess would be that it involved the use of some non-standard software that I no longer use -- something like DVDStripper. 4500 is not that unusual: I continue to hit that or come within a whisker of it, from time to time. That is not exactly intentional either, since I tend to think that a filled size of 4200 or 4300 is pushing things about as far as one ought to, if you hope to keep the SL disc for several years and have it continue being readable.

    ConvertXtoDVD, for example, seems to have no inhibitions regarding filling a disc up about as far as it can go.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Hi seeker47,

    all available space info I mentioned were taken from such a reliable tool like dvddecrypter. I also don't believe in some mumbo jumbo of various burning tools (eg. in case of their weird size calc).
    Some people still think overburning has happened when they have burned more than 4482mb onto a DVD-R (SL), but they miss the fact that DVD-R always holds more mb than a DVD-R.

    Also, it seems to me that a whole bunch of burning tools mis-calc the "overhead", besides the necessary space for folder, system and so on.
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
    Quote Quote  
  20. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    DVD-R always holds more mb than a DVD-R
    Huh? Can you try that one again?

    DVD-R overburn as we specify it is not possible without hw tweaking
    I have one overburned DVD-R here, somewhere. (I think. May have tossed it long ago, however.) It was a RITEKG01, if I remember correctly. I do know that it was burned with a Compaq OEM Pioneer DVR-103, and DVDit! PE 2.5. I think DVDit used a Prassi engine for burning, but unclear which version that may have been. We're talking about a DVD that I authored and burned about 8-9 years ago. It was impossible to copy, but it played fine all the way to the end of the credits.

    (At that point in time, I don't believe I'd written my hack. I hacked the drive myself, using some info put out there by Flash, and editing a firmware update by Pioneer in a hex editor. That was fun. Flash had not yet figured out a way to overcome the Compaq limits. Sadly, I lost all my hack files a few days later when a hard drive tanked, part of the 1% of data not backed up. So I was never able to share it with others.)

    I re-did the DVD with a better encoder a couple of years later, and have a new master now. The first version was made on Cleaner 5 (yuck), and the final version was encoded in Procoder 1.5.

    So you can overburn a DVD-R with certain combinations of hardware and software. Poorly implemented, I would imagine, and most likely only with something as ancient as a 103.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    I think what _chef_ was trying to say was refering to the overall sector capacity of DVD-R (SL) vs. DVD+R (SL). -R has 2,298,496 sectors, whereas +R has 2,295,104 sectors. The difference is really not usually WORTH mentioning (just less than 7MB), so I don't know why it's being brought up again in an argument.

    BTW, strangely enough, DL +R has MORE available sectors than DL-R (less overhead in the spec). (See the Wikipedia article on DVD-ROM...)

    So, BOTTOM LINE: years and threads later, it STILL isn't recommended to overburn either CD or DVD. Not if you care about what's on those discs being readable later on...

    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Yeah, sorry, a little typo and confusing starts to grow.

    I just chose this two media types because some people still think they have "overburnt" a DVD5 just because they didnt think about that tiny little difference (few mb).

    @Lordsmruf,
    I really should try that when I get some time. Thanks for the hint!!
    "Compaq OEM Pioneer DVR-103, and DVDit! PE 2.5."
    How much MB does that DVD-R hold?
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
    Quote Quote  
  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    I think it was it maybe 4MB larger than the max spec of DVD-R. Maybe it was 8MB.
    It's really been a long time now.
    You know, 4496MB sounds about right.

    I have no idea where that disc is.
    It's not in the master case anymore, because the new master was made.
    But I think I kept the old DVD-R somewhere because it was an oddity. Will look for it.

    Thinking back, it may have been DVDit! 2.0, 2.2x or 2.3, too, not the last version 2.5 PE.
    This was from the early days.
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member [_chef_]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks, I'll try to check that sometimes just for the geekness.
    *** Now that you have read me, do some other things. ***
    Quote Quote