HDTV: Cable or Dish?

[fritzi93]

I realize there will be differences between (local cable) providers. But I'm curious to hear about pros and cons. Specifically, Comcast and Dish Network are running ads locally, each claiming more HD content. I confess I haven't been keeping up with developments in HDTV.

[edDV]

I realize there will be differences between (local cable) providers. But I'm curious to hear about pros and cons. Specifically, Comcast and Dish Network are running ads locally, each claiming more HD content. I confess I haven't been keeping up with developments in HDTV.

What are your HD needs?

The advertising hype boils down to dish/directtv have more channels capable of HD content, while Comcast claims they have 50% more HD programs in their fewer channels but supplemented by free and pay video on demand (VOD) which is impossible for sat to compete.

As you say quality varies on cable but a newly upgraded cable system will outperform sat.

Individuals need to analyze program packages for your needs.

[yoda313]

I went with cable simply because I want uninterrupted broadcasts. I didn't believe that satellite would drop out because of whether. However one time watching sat at somebody elses place it cut out for five or ten minutes with a lightning strike in the area (not a direct hit of course). That spooked me away from satellite.

Now they are claiming up to 100 hd channels by the end of the year for one of the dish companies. That would be nice but my package I have now is virtually the same price as my previous analog package and the dvr is the same as tivo (which I'm not renewing by the way).

Other than that it's your preference.

[fritzi93]

What are your HD needs?

Just mildly interested at this point. Actually, most of my viewing is the History Channel, Discovery Channel, C-SPAN, and some PBS. My wife watches network crap.

If it's up to me, we'll keep what we have (Comcast cable) and not get an HD package. SD looks pretty good on the 32" CRT HDTV, as do DVDs.

[yoda313]

if you have similar comcast to me then you might want to ge the digital starter package.

The way it works for me is the digital starter is like 48/mo I believe which was right along lines with my preferred basic analog. The digital starter gives me the on demand which is great.

To get hdtv you'll need either the hdtv converter box at 7/mo or the high def dvr for 12/mo. I got the dvr as a replacement for tivo and I'll drop the tivo. (this price is on top of the monthly cost and in ADDITION to whatever existing box you use - though I'm currently using the dvr only and never had a box until now - I use a y splitter to get the cable to the dvr and a seperate independent feed to the tv, downside is the new cable hd channels are only available on the dvr this way - but it is a dual tuner model so it has flexiblity

I've got maybe a dozen hd channels with the digital starter. Usa, cnn, history, hgtv, tbs, tnt, fsn, vs/golf, espn 1 and 2, pretty sure that's it right now.

you have to go to digital preffered to get a whole lot more but thats like an extra 20/mo if I remember right.

The dvr is worth it. you can record hdtv perfectly. Looks great and best of all you can pause and repeat sports in high def!!!!

[fritzi93]

The hi def DVR option is interesting. As I understand it, as of July this year, the FCC ruled that you could use your own, so one is not tied to the Comcast rental DVR. BTW, what's the capacity of your DVR, Yoda? And thanks Ed and Yoda for replying.

[edDV]

The hi def DVR option is interesting. As I understand it, as of July this year, the FCC ruled that you could use your own, so one is not tied to the Comcast rental DVR. BTW, what's the capacity of your DVR, Yoda? And thanks Ed and Yoda for replying.

The cable company has encryption control for "their" channels. Are you saying you only want a DVR for the locals + unencrypted QAM?

[fritzi93]

Possibly. Let me further display my ignorance. :P How about a QAM tuner and a HTPC with a couple big hard drives? I could easily cobble one up with parts on hand.

We have no desire for premium channels or pay-per-view. Nor does the idea of a monthly rental charge have much appeal. So it comes down to which channels are encrypted. I don't actually watch much TV, it's my wife who would like to time-shift her network shows.

Anyway, if I were to pursue this avenue further, I'd have to check with Comcast, obviously.
As you say, it depends on the provider:

http://www.hometheatersound.com/features/videonoise/vn_20040201.htm

[EDIT] There's also this interesting (if somewhat confusing) possibility:

http://www.resmagonline.com/articles/publish/article_435.shtml

[lordsmurf]

cable but a newly upgraded cable system will outperform sat.

This is so true. In a new area, with new lines and new hubs, cable Internet runs rings around the new DSL, and cable TV beats the crap out of satellite. Cable really is better, as a broad bandwidth wired connection. But if your wires suck, it'll look/work the same or worse as DSL or satellite. This is what Verizon Fios probably compares itself too, never new/good cable connections.

I didn't believe that satellite would drop out because of whether. However one time watching sat at somebody elses place it cut out for five or ten minutes

To this day I still find VHS or DVD recordings from my DirecTV days, timer recorded stuff, where it'll say "SEARCHING FOR SIGNAL" instead of the show. Years later, still pisses me off. Even with a good normal signal (99%), I would get a crappy signal (70-80%) from mere cloud cover, much less rain (0-50%). And where I lived at the time, rain was a months-long ordeal in some seasons (floods, even). You could go weeks without tv.

[oldandinthe way]

In my opinion, there are no hard and fast guidelines to use on cable vs satellite.

The weather issue applies in some locations, with some installations.

But some of Comcast's systems are so overloaded that the normal quality of transmission has even SD programs breaking up, consistantly.

The image quality on OnDemand is lower than other programming - greater compression I suspect.

The delays in channel surfing are enormous.

My cable-ready TV with an analog connection to cable provides a superior viewing experience to digital cable through Comcast's set-top box.

The only clearly superior solution, available in limited areas is Verizon's FIOS. Lots and lots of bandwidth. Dedicated fibre pairs to avoid the loading problems of cable.

[TBoneit]

If your local cable company is broadcasting your local HD stations in QAM then with a QAM capable tuner in your HTPC you should be good to go. All

HD Tuners are not QAM capable.

Test for QAM locals by hooking up your cable line to the TV directly with no box. This presumes that your TV has a QAM capable tuner.

I can get my locals in HD via my HDTV as it has a QAM capable tuner. I only have basic cable and Internet from the cable company. I use Dishnetwork and their Superb Mpeg4 VIP622 DVR. Yes I pay a monthly rental one the DVR.. Cable and DirecTV also charge a monthly fee for a HD DVR.

I didn't want to roll my own and be restricted to locals only for the DVR functionality.

Dishnetwork DVR is the better DVR for now. The DirecTV and Cable HD DVRs work they are not as smooth in operation. I am basing this on anecdotal evidence from other forums of course.

So if you want only local channels DVR'd then cable. If you want other channels in HD with a DVR then satellite or cable and rent the box.

Myself I want to be able to DVR Rave, MonstersHD, Discovery, HDNet and HDnet Movies, World and so on.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/index.shtml
Note you can feed two rooms from the one DVR with two different programs. One in HD local to the DVR and one in SD via coax.

If it is available in your area don't forget FIOS

[edDV]

Try to find a neighbor with a QAM tuner to see what your neighborhood cable offers. Or talk to your local cable forum on AVS
http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

[dLee]

What are your HD needs?

Just mildly interested at this point. Actually, most of my viewing is the History Channel, Discovery Channel, C-SPAN, and some PBS. My wife watches network crap.

From memory, Dish has History Channel and Discovery Channel in HD, but not C-SPAN and, most surprisingly, not PBS. I have both national and local PBS. I think this is true for Direct as well.

I just bought and setup a new TV for my mom in LA (TimeWarner cable) and the QAM tuner picked up the HD rebroadcast of the over-the-air-in-the-clear local nets - with no cable box. Many of the analog cable channels are available in their digital form via QAM as well. My guess is encryption is in the future.

[edDV]

What are your HD needs?

Just mildly interested at this point. Actually, most of my viewing is the History Channel, Discovery Channel, C-SPAN, and some PBS. My wife watches network crap.

From memory, Dish has History Channel and Discovery Channel in HD, but not C-SPAN and, most surprisingly, not PBS. I have both national and local PBS. I think this is true for Direct as well.

I just bought and setup a new TV for my mom in LA (TimeWarner cable) and the QAM tuner picked up the HD rebroadcast of the over-the-air-in-the-clear local nets - with no cable box. Many of the analog cable channels are available in their digital form via QAM as well. My guess is encryption is in the future.

Just curoius for those on sat getting the History Channel in HD, how many programs there are originated HD? Comcast puts several HD Biography/History/A&E programs on their HD VOD each month.

[dLee]

Just curoius for those on sat getting the History Channel in HD, how many programs there are originated HD? Comcast puts several HD Biography/History/A&E programs on their HD VOD each month.

I don't watch the History Channel much, but much of it seems like HD originated. I'll have a closer look at it.

A friend produces films for National Geographic, Discovery and History Channels and he's been using HD for several years - way before HD broacast / cable / satellite was available. Producers were looking to the HD future early on to protect the value of their creations. And the clients were insisting on it, as well.

[jman98]

What are your HD needs?

Just mildly interested at this point. Actually, most of my viewing is the History Channel, Discovery Channel, C-SPAN, and some PBS. My wife watches network crap.

For whatever it's worth, I have Comcast and their high def channels and only Discovery Channel on your list is offered where I live in high def. The quality of Comcast's high def channels is uniformly excellent, but they don't have a lot of channels to offer. I can get PBS in high def where I live, but only over the air and not reliably as I don't live in an ideal location for over the air high def reception.

[Jim44]

For whatever it's worth, I have Comcast and their high def channels and only Discovery Channel on your list is offered where I live in high def.

That's the thing the OP needs to look into for himself - what is available via cable locally, since it varies. In my area we've got about 25 HD channels, a couple were just added recently. (Of course, I'm still waiting for SpeedTV & SciFI in HD, sigh). We've got Discovery, History, and PBS in HD in our area.

My 2 cents,
Jim

[TBoneit]

My recollection is that neither DirecTV or Dishnetwork offer PBS in HD. From my reading I believe it is tied into PBS insistance that if they offer the local PBD in HD they need to carry all the subchannels too.

FWIW in the main they only carry CBS, NBC, FOX & ABC in HD in their local HD pckages where available.

I get my PBS Channels in HD Via Basic Cable and the QAM tuner in the TV set. Everything else I DVR with a HD DVR from Dishnetwork.

On the History channel HD I'll have to look deeper as even the upconverted SDs look pretty good vs what TNT/TBS does to them.

[edDV]

Comcast here plans to offer "three to four" more HD channels by the end of the year. One will be the local CW channel. The others are not yet announced but rumors favor History-HD and Food-HD.

[yoda313]

I have food in hd already eddv Not that its my regular hang out...

@ the original poster - my dvr is 120gb or 160gb - believe it or not I'm not 100% positive. I think it's because mine is the newest model and I think my pamphlet was for the older one.

[Marvingj]

Its a toss up, really depend on what area you live in and equipment they are using. HD is going to be more available in 2009, so more channels should on the way...

[fritzi93]

If your local cable company is broadcasting your local HD stations in QAM then with a QAM capable tuner in your HTPC you should be good to go.

Maybe something like this?:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815122008

I'm checking out all the other suggestions posted, it's gunna take a while to digest. (Also still have to find out what I can get unencrypted locally without the DTV-STB from Comcast.) Thanks, everyone!

[manono]

I get my PBS Channels in HD Via Basic Cable and the QAM tuner in the TV set.

So I'm not the only one. And here I thought I was onto something.

My previous HDTV (which broke the other day) didn't have QAM/ATSC tuners. The Sony Bravia I got at Costco does. I only found this out from the manual later, when trying to figure out what was going on. It's not mentioned on the box or the card about the TV set at Costco.

So, while fooling around with the channels, I discovered all these new channels, radio stations, and HD channels in the upper numbers, like channel 119.3, that I had never received before. I don't have a cable box or an antenna, only a cable wire into the back of the set. It's a Time-Warner cable subsidiary called Oceanic here in Hawaii. But if it's unscrambled I can get it. So now I have Hi-Def PBS, NBC, ABC, and Fox. There's no Hi-Def CBS here in Hawaii. I'm stoked. Saw my first Hi-Def football games on Sunday. It's great getting something for nothing. I find myself now watching TV shows I never watched before, just because they're so pretty.

If anyone is looking for a TV deal, at Costco they have an unadvertised special of the Sony Bravia 46" LCD set and a $480 Sony Home Theater system with DVD player/1000 Watt amp, and some nice looking speakers, the rears being wireless. I didn't need the home theater system, but took it anyway. It's for the price of the TV alone. I have no idea if this is true for the rest of the nation, but I stumbled onto the deal by accident while I was there the other day. Sony may be trying to dump the home theater system as the DVD player only upconverts to 1080i while the TV does 1080p.

[edDV]

The FCC is leaning hard on cable to prevent them from requiring a cable box for full SD/HD local station reception via the QAM tuner. Beyond that PBS has separately negotiated a deal where all subchannels that go to air must be available over clear QAM tuning. Beyond that the cable company decides what else is left unencryted.

Here this is limited to CSpan 1 and 2 and some foreign language but others report many more open channels.

[sharp white]

digital cable rules

[edDV]

Cable users should seek a DTV or DVD recorder with QAM tuning capability. Not all have it. The ATSC tuner only works for OTA, not on cable.

[edDV]

Comcast here plans to offer "three to four" more HD channels by the end of the year. One will be the local CW channel. The others are not yet announced but rumors favor History-HD and Food-HD.

Well they underpromised I'm stunned!

New Comcast HD line up today in addition to CW

HGTV-HD (new)
National Geographic D-HD (new)
HistoryD-HD (new)
NFL-HD (new)
A&E-HD (new)
Mojo-HD
FSN-HD
VSGolf-HD
Discovery-HD
ESPN-HD
ESPN2-HD
Comcast SportsNet-HD
TNT-HD
Universal-HD
MHD
USA-HD (new)
The Discovery Channel-HD (new)
HD Music (New)

but no Food-HD

[TBoneit]

Some of those are actually good channels. OTOH you watch TNT HD and tell me how you like the way they treat a 4:3 source. I like Universal HD, National Geographic D-HD, HistoryD-HD, & Discovery HD. Looks like they added a fair amount of sports channels.

Good for you.
Enjoy