Plasma TV with Dish receiver

[jdog1911]

Hey, Just bought a new Plasma TV. Upon setting up my Dish Receiver 301 to it (which only has A/V outputs and S-Video) The picture quality isn't all that good at all.

I'm also using my DVD/HDD Recorder which does have composite video outputs. But after buying $40 cables the picture still doesn't seem to improve.

Because the receiver is the tuner to the satellite.. unless I upgrade that.. is there not anyway to get a perfect picture?

Even when watching a DVD, its not crystal clear quality.

Thanks

[edDV]

Hey, Just bought a new Plasma TV. Upon setting up my Dish Receiver 301 to it (which only has A/V outputs and S-Video) The picture quality isn't all that good at all.

I'm also using my DVD/HDD Recorder which does have composite video outputs. But after buying $40 cables the picture still doesn't seem to improve.

Because the receiver is the tuner to the satellite.. unless I upgrade that.. is there not anyway to get a perfect picture?

Even when watching a DVD, its not crystal clear quality.

Thanks

Does the 301 have analog component out or S-Video? What kind of $40 cables did you buy?

Keep in mind that SD Dish is only ~524x480i. This needs to be upscaled to the TV resolution which is probably 1024x768.

Most DVD players support analog component (Green Red Blue). Try those and experiment with 480p and 480i out.

[jdog1911]

Hey, Just bought a new Plasma TV. Upon setting up my Dish Receiver 301 to it (which only has A/V outputs and S-Video) The picture quality isn't all that good at all.

I'm also using my DVD/HDD Recorder which does have composite video outputs. But after buying $40 cables the picture still doesn't seem to improve.

Because the receiver is the tuner to the satellite.. unless I upgrade that.. is there not anyway to get a perfect picture?

Even when watching a DVD, its not crystal clear quality.

Thanks

Does the 301 have analog component out or S-Video? What kind of $40 cables did you buy?

Keep in mind that SD Dish is only ~524x480i. This needs to be upscaled to the TV resolution which is probably 1024x768.

Most DVD players support analog component (Green Red Blue). Try those and experiment with 480p and 480i out.

The 301 has S-Video out and regular Video and Audio L/R. Using Video or S-Video(theres no improvement) and Audio L/R from 301 -> TV doesn't give the best picture I'm looking for. Which may be understandable(?)

They were actually $35 Analog component video cables. (I bought some extra regular Video/Audio ones too) I tried using them out from my HDD/DVD Recorder to the TV, but either the screen will be black(audio will work with the L/R in) or distorted as if I don't have them plugged in correctly(I did match up the color's) I am doing Analog Component HDD/DVD Recorder -> TV AV1 Analog Component. I can't figure that out at all, because as far as I know that should at least work.

Have tried multiple combinations at this point. Hate to bring up the coaxial cables. But I do have them hooked up accordingly. From Sat -> 301 -> HDD/DVD Recorder -> TV, While on TV mode it picks up nothing.

At this point I'm using regular Video/Audio L/R cables from 301 -> TV. The AV2 input on the TV only has analog video/digital video input. And vice versa for the HDD/DVD Recorder.

I could use the "Side" input on the TV for the 301 or HDD/DVD Recorder but the DVD is just as choppy, not perfect at all.

As per the resolution situation. All I've done (that I know to do) is change the 301 to 16:9. Not sure if I could do anything else.

I guess the main problem is the Red Green and Blue cables not working from the DVD to the TV.

Thanks for any help and sorry if that is hard to understand, I may have some terms wrong.

[edDV]

OK. Dish 301 is limited to S-Video and audio as your best connections. Set the Dish tuner for a 16:9 TV in the menus. If everything is set correctly, you will see side bars for 4:3 programs and full 16:9 for wide channels like HBO. If you see 4:3 programs stretched wide, you need to correct that in the menus. You will need a new Dish tuner for better performance over analog component or HDMI. HD is a further upgrade.

As for the DVD recorder, connect it analog component (Green Red Blue). You will need to set the player menus for 16:9 out and 480p out. If the player has upscale capability try and compare 720p.

[jdog1911]

Thanks again. I finally found the combination for the Green Red Blue cables with Audio to work for my DVD. When playing a DVD its not as bad as regular TV, but not crystal clear.

As the 301 only has those video inputs(s-video and audio), the picture is pretty disappointing but I think I'll live with it until I can get a HD player. The dish 6000 has it I believe.

I was able to change the aspect ratio on the DVD to 16:9 but I can't find anywhere about the 480i and 480p etc. It is currently set on 480i. (the 301 is set to 16:9, again no option I can find about the 480i,p or 1080i,p)

Thanks for your help again, none the less.

[edDV]

Thanks again. I finally found the combination for the Green Red Blue cables with Audio to work for my DVD. When playing a DVD its not as bad as regular TV, but not crystal clear.

As the 301 only has those video inputs(s-video and audio), the picture is pretty disappointing but I think I'll live with it until I can get a HD player. The dish 6000 has it I believe.

I was able to change the aspect ratio on the DVD to 16:9 but I can't find anywhere about the 480i and 480p etc. It is currently set on 480i. (the 301 is set to 16:9, again no option I can find about the 480i,p or 1080i,p)

Thanks for your help again, none the less.

Standard def Dish is interlace MPeg2 at around 524x480 resolution. When you expand this to a large screen, you will see the flaws. A higher end Dish tuner will play SD in higher quality and HD at much higher quality.

It sounds like you don't have a progressive DVD player. Consider buying a good one for a better picture. Try borrowing players from friends to see the difference.

[TBoneit]

You don't want the Dish 6000. the DIsh 6000 won't do most of the Dishnetwork HD as it isn't a mpeg4 receiver and most if not all hd channels are now mpeg4.

If you want a HD DVR get the VIP722 and remember the picure will not be better on any SD channel. If you don't want a DVR there are other HD models that do HD.

For $20 more a month you can get the HD channels from dishnetwork. They'll look much better. They may need to change your satellite dish(es) for HD depending on what you have and where you are. That should be part of the HD upgrade.

For DVDs you need a upscaling DVD player. For local channels in HD you can always attach an antenna to your TV.

[dLee]

If you want a HD DVR get the VIP722 and remember the picure will not be better on any SD channel.

These things are subjective but I think the SD channels do look better on the newer DishHD receivers (I have both kinds). To my eyes the color is much better and there are fewer compression artifacts. (I don't know if I'm watching an MPEG2 or an MPEG4 stream.) Sometimes SD programming on an HD channel looks much better than SD on an SD channel. And there are still some channels (non-net locals and national indy, mostly) that are so bitstarved as to be unwatchable.

For $20 more a month you can get the HD channels from dishnetwork. They'll look much better. They may need to change your satellite dish(es) for HD depending on what you have and where you are. That should be part of the HD upgrade.

I was very skeptical about the VoomHD channels that the extra $20 USD gets you (among other things), but I'm now finding that they are some of the channels I watch the most. 60's era Akira Kurosawa films rescanned in HD at original aspect ratio on the KungFu channel - great HD live performance music - a World Cinema channel. An excellent alternative for anyone who doesn't care much for regular TV fare.

[TBoneit]

dLee, Only the HD channels are mpeg4. Whether or not the SD channels look better depends on the TV set too.

I find that the SD channels look better on a SD Sony 27" then on the 32" HDTV. However the difference is minimal.

The SD via a HD programming will look better, better bitrate and resolution. I exclude what TNT and TBS do from that equation of course. As long as the channel keeps the ORigina; Aspect Ratio I'm happy.

I',m happy with a Letterboxed video on a SD channel after I've zoomed it to fill the screen, at the proper AR of course.

I believe that the Voom channels have some of the best looking HD on dish.

I also like the content even after 1 year+ of them. Rave beats MHD!

HDNet does strange things compared to some. Look at the Art Mann show for example, they'll blur the naughty bits during primetime broadcasts and not blur them during the late night broadcasts.

The only reason I call that sort of thing strange is that means they have to produce two versions of the same show, one censored and one uncensored.

MonsterHD does a good job even on old b&w movies.

Cheers

[dLee]

dLee, Only the HD channels are mpeg4.

Mostly, I think you are right. But I think I read on DBSTalk.com that Dish sometimes sends individual SD channels and sometimes blocks of SD channels in MPEG4 format (for real world testing) to MPEG4 capable receivers, since Dish will eventually go to all MPEG4.

Whether or not the SD channels look better depends on the TV set too.

I find that the SD channels look better on a SD Sony 27" then on the 32" HDTV. However the difference is minimal.

Regular DishSD looks better to me on my CRT's than on my LCD. LCD's seem to be hard on less than perfect SD material.

The SD via a HD programming will look better, better bitrate and resolution. I exclude what TNT and TBS do from that equation of course.

Yes, but the quality of the SD via HD channel doesn't seem consistent. It's seems like sometimes either Dish or the broadcaster will reduce the bitrate of the HD channel when carrying SD material.
TNT and TBS remind me of somebody sitting in front of their new HDTV and zooming / cropping SD to fill the screen. What are they thinking?

I',m happy with a Letterboxed video on a SD channel after I've zoomed it to fill the screen, at the proper AR of course.

I am too - I just make sure I sit a little further away from the screen

I believe that the Voom channels have some of the best looking HD on dish.

I've often noticed the same thing.

Rave beats MHD!

Absolutely!

[edDV]

MHD is endless repeats. Seems like I saw it all the first week.

[jdog1911]

About the DVD player, would a player with HDMI output yield a near perfect picture?

[edDV]

About the DVD player, would a player with HDMI output yield a near perfect picture?

No it will be 720x480 video upscaled to either 1280x720p or 1920x1080i. The former will be received by your TV and then rescaled to the displays native resolution (probably 1024x768 for a plasma). 1920x1080i must first be deinterlaced before scaling. Deinterlace is destructive (lossy).

Alternative is to feed video at 480p to the TV. In this case the TV will upscale the 720x480p input to 1024x768 for display in one step.

Try 720p and 480p and choose which looks best to you.


OOPS: confused you with PAL. I adjusted the resolutions above to USA spec.

[jdog1911]

About the DVD player, would a player with HDMI output yield a near perfect picture?

No it will be 720x480 video upscaled to either 1280x720p or 1920x1080i. The former will be received by your TV and then rescaled to the displays native resolution (probably 1024x768 for a plasma). 1920x1080i must first be deinterlaced before scaling. Deinterlace is destructive (lossy).

Alternative is to feed video at 480p to the TV. In this case the TV will upscale the 720x480p input to 1024x768 for display in one step.

Try 720p and 480p and choose which looks best to you.


OOPS: confused you with PAL. I adjusted the resolutions above to USA spec.

I sort of follow what your saying, but I should have worded my question differently.

With the DVD having HDMI output, would DVD's show better? (with component output on the DVD it looks a bit better then regular composite)

[edDV]

Composite NTSC is the worst case. A movie on DVD has never seen analog NTSC. No reason to make the introduction. Same goes for S-Video but S-Video is better than composite NTSC.

Analog components YPbPr are a big step up. HDMI is marginally better than analog components assuming 480p out.

Upscaling is a separate but related issue. If you send 480p to the TV, the TV processor handles the upscale. If you suspect your TV has a suboptimal upscale processor, you can get a player that upscales to 720p. That sounds good in concept but most plasma displays are 1024x768 so the TV processor still must convert 1280x720 to 1024x768.

In summary, analog components at 480p, HDMI at 480p and HDMI at 720p should yield similar results at the plasma TV. Try them all and use what looks best to you.

[jdog1911]

Thanks a lot for all the advice, I'll buy a HDMI output DVD player and see how it is (plus the cables) , it's around $100 total at Wal-Mart. Then return it if its not good.

[jdog1911]

Sorry to revive this thread but I've come to a bad conclusion.

The quality of the picture on my 42" Plasma using RCA cables is not acceptable. This Thursday I will goto another TV shop inquire further before I buy another TV, and may end up returning the Wal-Mart bought Phillips 42".

I came to the conclusion that the picture is unacceptable because of the darkness of the blacks along with the "pixelated" picture. If I use the RCA cables on my old 27" CRT TV the picture is crystal clear.

I've done a little research with regards to my setup apparently only putting out 480i, which is why its so "pixelated" and not clear, but I don't fully understand. Changing the dish box isn't really an option at this point of time. I do want a 42" Flat TV but I want it to have clear and crystal pictures on all regular digital channels, using RCA cables.

Using the RCA cables from my cable box (set to 16:9) is the best resolution on a HDTV going to be 480i? I don't want the HD channels that are available to me, I just want to watch the channels I already have in crystal clear quality in 42". Is there anyway that is going to be a possibility?

Thanks.


edit: After talking to Phillips I guess since my video output is a low 480i (worst) theres nothing I can do with my current dish receiver and my TV?

[edDV]

...

Using the RCA cables from my cable box (set to 16:9) is the best resolution on a HDTV going to be 480i? I don't want the HD channels that are available to me, I just want to watch the channels I already have in crystal clear quality in 42". Is there anyway that is going to be a possibility?

Thanks.


edit: After talking to Phillips I guess since my video output is a low 480i (worst) theres nothing I can do with my current dish receiver and my TV?

Your best solution is to use Y,Pb,Pr (Green, Red, Blue) analog component cables if those outputs are available from that box. Otherwise use S-Video not composite or RF.

Picture quality is determined by several links in the chain.

1. Dish Network and your tuner box. You have a SD box with ~480 to 540 pixels horizontal x 480 interlaced lines using MPeg2 compression.

2. Connection method (see above).

3. The LCD TV. An LCD TV cannot display 480i directly. LCD is a native progressive display. 480i video must be converted to progressive by the processing electronics in your TV. A good processor will first test for film source and if detected, perform an inverse telecine (aka cinema processing). If the source is not film, deinterlace is performed. Deinterlacers vary in performance. Low end LCD-TV sets may lack cinema processing and/or deinterlace processing may be crude.

LCD displays have difficulty producing full black. Newer medium to high end LCD-TV models are showing great improvement in black level.

[TBoneit]

edDv
Since the OP's 301 is a SD box, no component outputs.

IMHO the OP would better served by a Tube type display since the OP doesn't want to go to a HD receiver. Or else spend the bucks to get a decent 42" that will make the SD feed at least usable. Since he is going to feed in a analog conversion of the Dish 544 by 480 Mpeg to the TV set maye a SD or Ed would work better for the OP?

[edDV]

edDv
Since the OP's 301 is a SD box, no component outputs.

IMHO the OP would better served by a Tube type display since the OP doesn't want to go to a HD receiver. Or else spend the bucks to get a decent 42" that will make the SD feed at least usable. Since he is going to feed in a analog conversion of the Dish 544 by 480 Mpeg to the TV set maye a SD or Ed would work better for the OP?

True but with no future upgrade potential for HD. May as well just buy a used top line Sony or Toshiba NTSC set for optimal SD DISH display. People are dumping good NTSC sets for the new larger HD plasmas and LCD TV sets.

[Nilfennasion]

What model is the Plasma TV?

There are many plasmas on the market that stop at 852 x 480p for resolution. I learned this the hard way. If this is the case with the one you have, you might as well stop right now and not waste any more money. Nothing you do will make the video signal look any better save for not feeding your panel resolutions it cannot handle in such an instance.

[TBoneit]

edDv
Since the OP's 301 is a SD box, no component outputs.

IMHO the OP would better served by a Tube type display since the OP doesn't want to go to a HD receiver. Or else spend the bucks to get a decent 42" that will make the SD feed at least usable. Since he is going to feed in a analog conversion of the Dish 544 by 480 Mpeg to the TV set maye a SD or Ed would work better for the OP?

True but with no future upgrade potential for HD. May as well just buy a used top line Sony or Toshiba NTSC set for optimal SD DISH display. People are dumping good NTSC sets for the new larger HD plasmas and LCD TV sets.

How about the people that have no desire for HD? The two family members left in NJ I know have no desire for HD, My other brother and sister I never asked.....

My brother is happy with the little viewing he does on a 19" SD TV. My Mother is on a Sony 27" SD set. The largest I could handle back then when I bought it for her some years back. The picture looks good with Dishnetwork on it. I can't even get her on the internet. Strangely enough she took to using a DVR easily. Since what she watches are mostly old 4:3 SD tv shows and the occsasional movie I can't see much urgency to upgrade her TV set right now. Then we take into consideration to get a reasonably bigger screen with SD broadcasts I'm guessing I'd have to go to at least 42"?

Then there is the other consideration since the OP is going to be feeding in all SD content what will that do to the screen itself? Especially Plasma? I seem to recall seeing something about burn-in even on LCDs?

Cheers

[jdog1911]

Thanks for the answers,

The model is 42PFP5332D/37.

edDV thanks again for the replies you are very helpful. I may end up trying a 42" LCD Toshiba that is in my price range. As it may or may not be lower end I'll suffer the difference. As per blacks not being perfect on the LCD, with the RCA connected for video on my Plasma its actually "too dark", I've read a bit about that too. If the native resolution will be a bit better I'll suffer the darkness difference I'm sure.

Only thing with a tube. Is I'd may have to buy it used, doesn't seem to be many available new, that I've noticed. My friends Tube which is 43" is near perfect in same setup AFAIK. My mothers 36"(i think) Tube is also a very good picture on regular SD AFAIK.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'm at about day 12 for my Plasma and have up to 30 for the return, the LCD I want is in a different store. Probably going down that path, if I can't find a nice tube for sale.

[TBoneit]

Keep in mind also that the Plasma will raise your electric bill more than the same size LCD. The other thing is that many tube TVs also use less electric.

I mention this not to be green, but to be frugal. OTOH I did go LCD with a VGA port and now it serves me for TV and Computer monitor so I don't have both going at the same time. I believe that puts me ahead on saving on the electric bill.

[edDV]

Also, for electricity use consider the air conditioning load. For every extra watt the new TV puts into the room, the air conditioner consumes more than that amount of watts to remove the heat since no A/C is 100% efficient. So figure the effect on your electricity bill has a 2+e times effect where e is the the extra work done by the A/C to pump out the heat. Also factor in that 5.1 surround audio system and the HD cable/sat tuner.

Here in California, electricity rates are sky high and are increased 50% in summer to discourage peak air conditioner usage. New TV sets use that highest cost marginal power rate which here can approach $0.48/KWh at 300% of baseline. Expect California power pricing to spread to other states.

[jagabo]

Also, for electricity use consider the air conditioning load. For every extra watt the new TV puts into the room, the air conditioner consumes more than that amount of watts to remove the heat

On the other hand, the TV helps heat the room in winter!

[SmokieStover]

Also keep in mind the diagonal size of a 16:9 screen, when displaying unstretched and unzoomed 4:3 SD material, needed to equal the diagonal size of a 4:3 tube set.

Diagonal Needed/16:9 = 1.2238 x Diagonal 4:3;

OR AS INVERSE EQUIVALENTS DISPLAYING 4:3 MATERIAL,

32" 4:3 = 39.2" 16:9,

36" 4:3 = 44" 16:9.

Perhaps the OP has stores nearby were he/she can actually see what an HDTV looks like playing SD off cable or satellite. Can't be done anymore, anywhere around here. That truely stinks.

Also, as minimum for feeding DVD-Video (factory disk) you need a progressive scan DVD player which will have component outputs. Damn hard to buy one without progressive output. Many also have a black level adjustment........my Panasonic is just "Lighter or Darker".

I do not have nor want a HDTV. All of the ones I have seen (out-of-store) look absolutely horrible playing SD Sat and Cable (analog and digital). Sad thing, most of the owners are either blind or don't know any better......the other ones returned them.