Philips 3575/3576 and Magnavox H2160 Features, Setup and Operation

[wabjxo]

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[DVWannaB]

Oh no doubt. I already have my CM4228 antenna already up and running for about 2 1/2 years now. I have the signal split to a Panasonic EZ37 DVD recorder (ATSC tuner capable), a HDTV card MyHD MDP-130 (computer) and a Hisense ATSC receiver (forgot model #) which is connected to a Pioneer DVR-520 recorder. I dont seem to get a lot of local digital channels tho'. NBC, FOX, ABC, CBS, My20, 2 PBS (in DC area). I am real close to the broadcast towers. Like within 15 miles. Cant wait for Univision to switch on digital so I can foam at the mouth at the hot latinas

Just now trying to tackle this DN issue, which I record ESPN and other HD events. Might just be stuck with the current situation with DN, until they release a receiver that outputs all the channels as they are broadcasted (similar to D*).

[TBoneit]

What's happening is that the S-Video out is sending the WS as 4:3 Ar. I haven't checked into it in depth, however I believe that reflagging it as 16:9 and then authoring it will do the trick. On my VIP622 the first zoom does as you say zoom everything sent to the HDTV. However on the DVD recorder it just seems to zoom it properly. Note that I have a suspicion it is trimming the sides even when not zoomed. For me it isn't a issue as playing the DVDs in a Philips 5990 they are upscaled and look OK and in a non upscaling player hitting fill on the TV remote brings them to looking OK on the TV. On mine the S-Video non zoomed makes the people look tall and skinny so that reflagging to 16:9 should do the trick too. That would also make them play right on a HDTV and a SDTV.

D* has it's own problems amongst which is that they use a satellite band that is more prone to rain fade for their HD, Caveat... That is the way I understand it since they don't use DBS satellites for their HD like Dishnetwork does.

Next thing is that at this time they don't have a many HBO HD feeds as Echostar does. I may be recalling the wrong model number but I believe your 211 is going to get a update so that you can add a USB drive and have a DVR at some point.

[TBoneit]

Please let me know how your VIP622 works on the 3576 with analog connection and with the Video > TV Aspect set for "16:9 Wide"?

Edit: I've searched for some info on the VIP boxes and everything I've read so far seems to suggest they won't output 16:9 over S-Video. One post said the only remedy for the "black" bars via S-Video was to change the VIP to "grey" bars! Your test will be esp. interesting after reading this!?

For others interested in widescreen on the 3575/76, here's a post with lots of info.

OK I did a quick change of the S-Video & Audio to the Philips with the Philips set to 16:9 and the VIP622 set to 16:9 TV set. The 622 output a 4:3 with the 16:9 inside of it and the Philips recorded it as 4:3.
I took the DVD to the computer.
Next step I used Vob2MPG to create a MPG file from the DVD.
Next I used DVDPatcher to patch the mpg file to 16:9.
As a test the mpg plays back as a 16:9 in VLC with no black bars as I expected.
Next step I authored the DVD using TMPGEnc DVD author 3 as a 16:9 with no menu.
The Authored DVD is approx 3.8 Gb after editing.
It plays as a 16:9 Aspect Ratio in PowerDVD 5.
I have taken the Reauthored DVD to a older Sony Changer non upscaling DVD player and it plays as letterboxed.
In the Philips 5990 it upscales to 16:9 filling the screen.

I probably spent an additional 35 to 40 minutes on the above steps to end up with a DVD that will play properly on legacy players and upscaling players. It is true I wasted a 22cent blank. In the future I'll most likely dig out those old DVD RWs i have collecting dust. of those extra minutes most them were me doing something else while the computer did the work.

Side note the Philips doesn't really like a Verbatim -R 1x - 16x disc as it takes forever to burn and finalize. The Verbatim +R 1x - 16x burn much faster. The Complete opposite of my Pioneer 531h which only burns -R and loves the Verbatims

Any other questions I can answer for you?

Heres a Capture from the start of the movie. It looks decent to me.

[wabjxo]

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[TBoneit]

Well I haven't timed it but for sure the Verbatim 16X Made in Taiwan was much faster than the Verbatim -R MIT 16X. When I have some time I'll try and run some timing tests. The problem is catching the burn when it finishes as I use the same display TV and Computer (32" HDTV) so it isn't free when I'm burning. I always start a burn and go do something else.

The other thing I've noticed is that the HD ---> S-Video isn't as good a picture as the QAM tuner for video captures.

BTW since the VIP622 sends out the video in a 4:3 format I can use the same methodology to create a 16:9 WS for the Pioneer or the Philips.

The benefit is once it is captured as a 4:3 and reflagged a 16:9 no Black bars to trim and no re-encoding.

DVWannaB, Are you sure your 211 is putting out black bars? Is it set to a 16:9 TV set? Maybe a switch to a VIP622 or a VIP722 where it doesn't put out black bars but rather fills the 4:3 top to bottom and compresses side to side so that a simple reflag to 16:9 will work? Note that what I'm getting out of my 622 is AFAIK what a WS DVD does to it's video too. If you look at the screen capture I put in above I did no trimming, What you see was captured from Power DVD playing the finished product that had no trimming of black bars or re-encoding after it was capturd by the Philips. It plays full screen in the Philips 5990 via HDMI and Letterboxed on a older Sony changer.
I didn't use Zoom the 622 was set to normal and I captured off of MGM HD. Why I chose to use Leo for the capture.

[PhoneMatt]

That's odd. I've only used Verbatim -R's (MIT) 1-16x on my Philips and have never noticed any speed problem. I can do a high speed dub in about 10-15 minutes and finalizing only takes a few minutes. (The time seems comparable to my Panny.)

OK, I actually timed a dub this morning. (The Olympic Opening Ceremony, minus the commercials. Yeah. lots of edits.) It took about 23 minutes to dub and less than 3 minutes to finalize. After I posted, I realized that, most of my dubbing is not to a full disk. (I still can't get my head around the fact that I can dub 3 one hour shows, without commercials, on one disk in 2 hour mode. OK. I'm old fashioned, I still only do 2 per disk.) A 2 show dub takes about 18 minutes, but finalizes in 4 minutes. For me, this is a decent time. (Enough time to load the washer and dryer and fold the tee shirts.) I wouldn't consider this a problem.
Question, though, does the finalizing of the partial disk take longer? Is it because the machine is writing zeros (blank data) to the disk, or is there another reason? Just curious.

Matt

[DVWannaB]

TB,

I noticed in your screen cap that you have have left and right sections cut off. So apparently by configuring in 4:3 you are going to have to sacrifice some parts of the viewable area.

I have my 211 to output 16:9 1080i. I have the recorder set at 16:9 TV and to display 4:3 as full screen. If I switch the 4:3 output to normal it outputs WS with black borders on all sides. So then if I zoom the 211 it fills up the entire screen (bo black), but also with some loss of viewable info. It looks that is what is happening to your screen cap also. I say that because the MGM lion has more black to his left and right, but is missing in your cap. I could be wrong, but feel pretty certain. Only way to verify is do a screen cap of a MGM movie you have from the store and compare.

[TBoneit]

You could be right I've sort of wondered about that but it isn't enough to bother me. I suspect that the TV1 S-Video when TV1 is set to 16:9 is squashing it that way on purpose. I'll have to go back to the DVR and do a A to B comparison as soon as I remember where I put the DVD.

The way that DVD was authored it looks OK on a SD 4:3 and the 16:9 HDTV, since I have that mix in the house I'm ok with it. Since my main purpose in this recorder is for Capturing QAM from basic cable and it does a good job of that and has a better quality of video via the tuner than from the S-Video

[RabidDog]

Slightly off topic: Its a large thread...
I have just bought the Uk 5520 and wonder how this compares to the 3575?? they sound comparable..
I am wondering specifically if your machine does 5.1 sound recording, how easy it is to replace the hard disk (mine is already filling up).. the exact def of all the recording modes xp sp spp+.
basic specs of the machine are 160gb / OTA digital + analog tuner /ext record / dvd burner / divx ultra / xfr from hdd/usb/dvd / Guideplus /pause live Tv / proper Usb2.0 port.

Have to admit its taken two weeks of intensive use to get to know all the features..

[wabjxo]

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[TBoneit]

I stand corrected. I did a test last night of -R & +R and they both burned with the same amount of time. I'm not sure why I was thinking -R was slower. My Appologies.

DVWannaB,

I'm going to do a test that occurred to me last night as I was falling asleep.

A simple test that requires me to dig out a rewritable disk to prevent wasting a one time disc.

I'll record the HD Net test pattern and that should definitively show what if any is being chopped off. I have it recorded in the DVR so I can do it easily.

For anybody else interested here is the schedule.

Sat, Aug 23 - 10:00 AM ET
7:00 AM PT HDNet Test Patterns
Wonder how your home theatre is doing? Wish you had test patterns to help set it up? Well, HDNet is here to help. This short program will help you get the most out of your home theatre setup by providing you with the same professional test patterns HDNet uses to set their gear.

[jagabo]

Sat, Aug 23 - 10:00 AM ET
7:00 AM PT HDNet Test Patterns
Wonder how your home theatre is doing? Wish you had test patterns to help set it up? Well, HDNet is here to help. This short program will help you get the most out of your home theatre setup by providing you with the same professional test patterns HDNet uses to set their gear.

That's good to know. Unfortunately, we don't get HDNet.

I always thought the cable company should provide that. They could slowly cycle through several test patterns. Audio too.

[tac7]

...how easy it is to replace the hard disk (mine is already filling up)...

Yes - sorry if that has been covered already - but does the 3575/76 require any special disks or remotes (like the Pioneer DVD recorders) to initialize a new HDD? or is it just a matter of replacing the HDD, and then the machine takes over and formats it automatically? Thanks...

[wabjxo]

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[TBoneit]

DVWannaB, Well according to the HD Net test patterns evidently the VIP622 is trimming the video approx equally on all sides before it is sent out the S-Video port. As a test when I have time I'm going to try the RF out fro TV2 which is a SD only output (Stereo) just to see what is being sent out that way. At this time I don't have time to go disconnecting and reconnecting.

The Video as is looks OK to me. IF I burn to a RW disc I can re-use the disc. The test is just for others knowledge.

[wabjxo]

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[wabjxo]

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[TBoneit]

Here's a VIP722 user who talks about TV1 sending WS and TV2 sending LB... not sure if 722 and 622 do the same with TV outputs?

My understanding is that they are pretty much the same except for the bigger drive in the 722.

The 612 is a different animal. Differences:

Dual tuner one TV
difference in the way the menus for setting things up are and some functions different.
Only one remote since there is no need for a uhf remote for tv2 as there is no tv2 out.
I still haven't found a way to disable HD mapdown.

Nice and responsive to the remote and it made a easy transition for someone used to the 721 dual tuner one tv SD DVR it replaced.

My cable company has two channels marked for different cable systems areas that show an oscilloscope trace too. My cable company has different lineups for different areas and that is how the two channels are marked. However my 3576 scanned all the way. maybe the 3576 handles it better or maybe your channel is done differently? I do not see how a analog channel that displays correctly should cause that problem.

I think they are measuring some sort of signal levels or usage levels for remote monitoring with those channels on my system. BTW they also show up in a scan with the Pioneer 531h and my HDTV.

[TBoneit]

Here's a VIP722 user who talks about TV1 sending WS and TV2 sending LB... not sure if 722 and 622 do the same with TV outputs?

I just realized I can do that test easy enough. There TV2 composite outputs on the 622 DVR so I can feed them into another line input on the 3576 and do a easy comparison to the TV1 S-Video output. The quality will be worse of course but as a test it doesn't matter. TV1 & TV2 are available on different UHF channels and are supposed to have stereo sound on the RF.

[TBoneit]

there is a post on another forum where the OP posts about his VIP622.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=136313

[wabjxo]

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[Captain Satellite]

wabjxo, Did you test your 3576 stash? I bought two but repaired my E80H. I haven't unboxed them yet. What did you do? I guess I should at least test them.

[DVWannaB]

there is a post on another forum where the OP posts about his VIP622.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=136313

Its clear to see that it is a DN thing with all their receivers. There is no getting around it to get straight WS through analog (S-video or RCA). You just have to zoom and cut off left & right or just record with black borders on top & bottom and edit on computer. Its long and time consuming the second way, but at least you get the full picture.

Quick story, my neighbor 2 doors down got the 3576 after I told him to visit this thread. I helped him hook up to D* and I absolutely want to kick his butt. His receiver is outputting WS through s-video and recorded an Olympic segment. The 3576 records a wicked picture. He recorded an HD signal off OTA antenna. He has OTA for local HD and D* providing their HD line-up.

Is it time to switch from DN to D*?

[wabjxo]

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[wabjxo]

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[TBoneit]

there is a post on another forum where the OP posts about his VIP622.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=136313

Its clear to see that it is a DN thing with all their receivers. There is no getting around it to get straight WS through analog (S-video or RCA). You just have to zoom and cut off left & right or just record with black borders on top & bottom and edit on computer. Its long and time consuming the second way, but at least you get the full picture.

Quick story, my neighbor 2 doors down got the 3576 after I told him to visit this thread. I helped him hook up to D* and I absolutely want to kick his butt. His receiver is outputting WS through s-video and recorded an Olympic segment. The 3576 records a wicked picture. He recorded an HD signal off OTA antenna. He has OTA for local HD and D* providing their HD line-up.

Is it time to switch from DN to D*?

I suspect they do it to keep people from complaining about black bars on their SD TV Sets. In fact I suspect it is no worse than many channels that seem to take a 2:35 AR movie and make it fill a 16:9 screen. Might be the same reasoning behind it too.

As for your neighbor why go through the DirecTV box for OTA? Go straight into the 3576 to be sure there is no processing. I bought mine mainly for Locals.

For SD channels I just use a different method that yields the same quality as broadcast. Several Yahoo groups dealing with that depending on the receiver.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DishPlayer_Explorer/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dishrip/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PVRExplorer/
Depends on the receiver.

[wabjxo]

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[Captain Satellite]

wabjxo, Did you test your 3576 stash? I bought two but repaired my E80H. I haven't unboxed them yet. What did you do? I guess I should at least test them.

Don't know what to advise with your still-boxed units. If you've got a working E80, you can record with a converter box or STB, so depends on if you want digital OTA or cable now or in the future (assuming you're in the US). You may not even like the 3576's "simplicity"... no bells and whistles but just gets the job done!

You might like a Panny single-disc recorder better... hard to say since it's really a matter of personal prefs.

Thanks. Bells and whistles I don't need. I have a UTV DVR and transfer content to my E80H for archiving, been doing that for six years now. Thanks for the reply.

[DVWannaB]

As for your neighbor why go through the DirecTV box for OTA? Go straight into the 3576 to be sure there is no processing. I bought mine mainly for Locals.

For SD channels I just use a different method that yields the same quality as broadcast. Several Yahoo groups dealing with that depending on the receiver.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DishPlayer_Explorer/
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dishrip/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PVRExplorer/
Depends on the receiver.

Yeah he has two inputs into the 3576. S-video to D* and direct coaxial connection to OTA antenna.