Compressing AVI Files to Burn to DVD?

[ryevick]

For example... I want to take 5 avi videos that add up to more than 4.7gb and make a dvd with menus. I know I need to compress them but what software will do this? I have tried using Sony DVD Architect 4 (wont import avi), Ulead DVD Workshop 6 (wont compress) and a few others that wont work... HELP!

[SCDVD]

Encode as a DVD-9 and output to a folder on your hard disc. Then run DVD Shrink on this folder and shrink to a DVD-5.

[guns1inger]

Depending on the bitrate, 4.7GB + of avi files converted to DVD will look horrible. Shrinking it to DVD5 will make it look worse.

You can get good quality (depending on source) up to around 2 hours on a DVD5. Reasonable quality up to 3 hours, and after that you start making real compromises.

So what is the total running time of your 5 avi files ?

And remember, the normal ratio of avi (Divx/Xvid) to DVD (mpeg-2) is around 3 - 4 fold. That is, when encoding for DVD, expect the video to be 3 - 4 times LARGER than the original avi to preserve the same quality.

[ryevick]

The total of the current project I'm doing is believe it or not 4 1/2 hrs (20 something gigabytes)... BUT it's just tutorials and I don't need Hollywood quality ... I also don't think authoring goes by time but size, that's why you don't see a time on blank dvds you see 4.7Gb... that's what gets compressed... if you were compressing time the movie would be shorter in length (I may be wrong)... I know Ulead DVD Workshop 6 goes by size anyway.

[SCDVD]

You can't author .avi files. They must be encoded to MPEG first. The encoding bitrate does go by time. If you have little motion and frequent scene changes, you may be able to get a tolerably poor 4 1/2 hour DVD. It won't be pretty but may be functional for what you need it for. You could output to DL DVD-9 media and get much better video quality.

[poisondeathray]

Convertxtodvd will do this easily (encoding and authoring) in 1 step.

However, the menus have limited configurability (they are simple), and 4.5 hours of video will have reduced quality (as already mentioned)

[guns1inger]

OK. Some basic rules.

Quality is derived from the quality of the surce, the quality of the encode, and the bitrate allocated. The lower the bitrate, the lower the quality. Up to a point - 90 - 120 minutes, the difference is tolerable. After that, severely noticeable.

Filesize = Running Time X Bitrate.

Therefore, the longer the running time, the lower the bitrate, and consequently, the lower the quality.

Second rule. Encode once. The more you encode with a lossy codec, the more damage you do. So never encode for DVD9 if you need DVD5. And never encode for DVD9 and transcode for DVD5. If you need to fit into a DVD5, then encode for a DVD5. If the bitrate is too low, then either encode and burn to a DVD9, or split the files into two discs.

Personally, I believe four and a half hours is too much for a DVD unless you are willing to go to half-D1 resolution, and if you do that, you will find that the resolution is too low for the details required.

So yes, time is not the factor, size is and bitrate are. However the three are intrinsically and inseparably linked.

If these are screen based tutorials, you need to keep the resolution at full-D1 to preserve the detail, and keep the bitrate reasonably high to ensure you can still read everything.

Simplest method is to use a bitrate calculator, find the bitrate at various lengths, then encode a 5 minute segment as these bitrates and see what it looks like. If you can live it, go for it. But at least it is an informed decision and you haven't wasted hours to find it isn't watchable.

[ryevick]

The bitrates for the four avi files I'm using are: 96 kbps, 139 kbps, 186 kbps & 224 kbps. I'm not well schooled on this stuff (yet) but I do enjoy design and just need a program recommendation that could maybe do this for me, allowing input of these four files that wouldn't mind their size that could put them on DVD 5 (4.7gb).

[ryevick]

OK. Some basic rules.

Quality is derived from the quality of the surce, the quality of the encode, and the bitrate allocated. The lower the bitrate, the lower the quality. Up to a point - 90 - 120 minutes, the difference is tolerable. After that, severely noticeable.

Filesize = Running Time X Bitrate.

Therefore, the longer the running time, the lower the bitrate, and consequently, the lower the quality.

Second rule. Encode once. The more you encode with a lossy codec, the more damage you do. So never encode for DVD9 if you need DVD5. And never encode for DVD9 and transcode for DVD5. If you need to fit into a DVD5, then encode for a DVD5. If the bitrate is too low, then either encode and burn to a DVD9, or split the files into two discs.

Personally, I believe four and a half hours is too much for a DVD unless you are willing to go to half-D1 resolution, and if you do that, you will find that the resolution is too low for the details required.

So yes, time is not the factor, size is and bitrate are. However the three are intrinsically and inseparably linked.

If these are screen based tutorials, you need to keep the resolution at full-D1 to preserve the detail, and keep the bitrate reasonably high to ensure you can still read everything.

Simplest method is to use a bitrate calculator, find the bitrate at various lengths, then encode a 5 minute segment as these bitrates and see what it looks like. If you can live it, go for it. But at least it is an informed decision and you haven't wasted hours to find it isn't watchable.

Thanks... very educational for me... any program recommendations?

[SCDVD]

The bitrate in your .avi files is not related to the DVD bitrate. I am not an authority on this but I have had better results making multi-hour DVD's by first outputting as DVD-9 and then transcoding with DVD Shrink with the quality set to 2-pass and "max smooth". I have found the max smooth to help even though it represents a second process. I really want to emphasize that this isn't a way to make beautiful DVD's. It works best where there is limited motion and scene changes. A lecturing "talking head" is an example of what I am talking about. Just keep in mind that 4 1/2 hours is far beyond what would be a good DVD. 4 1/2 hours on a DL DVD would be reasonable.

[guns1inger]

HCEnc is a very good, free encoder that can produce good results at low bitrates. FAVC is a great front end for HCEnc, and can also do half-D1 encoding.

[ryevick]

HCEnc is a very good, free encoder that can produce good results at low bitrates. FAVC is a great front end for HCEnc, and can also do half-D1 encoding.

What is half-D1 encoding?

[SCDVD]

HCEnc is a very good, free encoder that can produce good results at low bitrates. FAVC is a great front end for HCEnc, and can also do half-D1 encoding.

What is half-D1 encoding?

Half D1 is half the horizontal lines (352x480) compared to D1 (720x480) It is often beneficial to reduce the resolution to Half D! with long DVDs so that more bitrate is available.

[ryevick]

HCEnc is a very good, free encoder that can produce good results at low bitrates. FAVC is a great front end for HCEnc, and can also do half-D1 encoding.

What is half-D1 encoding?

Half D1 is half the horizontal lines (352x480) compared to D1 (720x480) It is often beneficial to reduce the resolution to Half D! with long DVDs so that more bitrate is available.

OK... all of this is very helpful to me understanding the processes involved... I wish there were a tutorial video that explained all the aspects of video encoding... I learn so much using tutorial videos, more than I do from reading... wouldn't you lose just as much quality reducing horizontal lines as you would using lower bitrates since the image will be "stretched", seeing as it's going to be viewed on a TV (which I thought had to use 720x480)?

[jagabo]

half-D1 encoding... wouldn't you lose just as much quality reducing horizontal lines as you would using lower bitrates since the image will be "stretched"...?

Yes but the nature of the loss is different. You trade picture sharpness for fewer artifacts. With low resolution sources like VHS the loss of sharpness is hardly noticeable.

[ryevick]

This was a post I got from someone at another forum not quite as good as this place though... love this forum! I've moved it in here for feedback from you guys on this.

Do you have Sony Vegas software accompanying your DVD Architect software? If so, that is the program you want to use to import the AVI files. Once you import them via Vegas, you edit them as you wish, then you render them into MPEG-2 files in Vegas. Once the file is rendered properly, you open the rendered .mpg file in DVD Architect to start making your DVD.

If you have Vegas and this is the route you want to take let me know and I can walk you through some of the additional steps. I just figured all of this out on my own very recently and there are some caveats (such as rendering the audio and video layers separately) that are not immediately obvious.

Excellent ideal! I'm embarrassed I haven't thought of this before. I do have Vegas but have never really understood why they sell them as a package (I know I'm sounding really stupid here.. it is possibly the best way, but hey) I use them both and thought maybe there was direct "import from" and "export to" feature between these two that I have just overlooked (as with other design programs), that type multi-program "linking" is everywhere in the design industry. I am still green to encoding though (which is my biggest hurdle). Are other encoding methods available for Vegas... which would be best, the Half D1?

[guns1inger]

Do you want the best solution, or just the answer you came here for ?

The best solution is to break the disc over two DVD9s, at roughly 2:15 each. You will maintain the best quality and get the best result.

The second best would be to put the full 4:30 onto a single DVD9. The quality will be lower, but probably acceptable if the screen if reasonably static.

The answer you want it to use FAVC with HCEnc, select half-D1 and have it do a two-pass VBR encode and author you a DVD5. It will take a while on your machine, but the quality will be much higher than you will get from just throwing a few files into DVDA.

[ryevick]

Do you want the best solution, or just the answer you came here for ?

The best solution is to break the disc over two DVD9s, at roughly 2:15 each. You will maintain the best quality and get the best result.

The second best would be to put the full 4:30 onto a single DVD9. The quality will be lower, but probably acceptable if the screen if reasonably static.

The answer you want it to use FAVC with HCEnc, select half-D1 and have it do a two-pass VBR encode and author you a DVD5. It will take a while on your machine, but the quality will be much higher than you will get from just throwing a few files into DVDA.

Thanks.