Having Trouble with DIY Telecine (8mm) System

[boobootrasher]

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/booboobasher/Super8sooty%20Projector%20Project/IMG_1156.jpg

[boobootrasher]

At first I played with the Eumig setup micro switch on the 3 blade shutter and other ideas came.
I am happy with converting my films with a speed of 3fps or even slower as I have all the time in the world, so my first job was to replace the existing motor with a geared and very cheep 12V motor from Ebay. ( I can give link if interested)This gave me, when the projector was running in full speed (18fps.) 2 frames per second running speed. You with me? I then drimled of 2 of the 3 blades off being careful about debris, masking off the rest of the projector. So the projector will now only close the gate when the film was being advanced. If you are careful, make sure you pick the right blades to cut off that is? An easy job though.

[boobootrasher]

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/booboobasher/Super8sooty%20Projector%20Project/IMG_1154.jpg

[boobootrasher]

Next I changed all the lighting... Knight optical diffuser, which has been mentioned on here quite a bit and I throughly recommend as is 50mm in diameter and fits nice and snug. I have gone with an LED light source in this case a G4 supper bright LEDs though keep an eye on colour temperature when searching on ebay when looking for these.

[boobootrasher]

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/booboobasher/Super8sooty%20Projector%20Project/IMG_1153.jpg

[ronypony]

Hi Boot

Good to hear from you again....eh I think your right...most of us are too obsessed with the Eumig 610D.

They are so well built but as you say they are difficult to trigger with CineCap....

Which model of Bell and Howell did you use ? ......could you show us where you mounted the switch on

your projector with a photo.

How about showing us some of your results...I'd love to see some

regards

Mike

[boobootrasher]

Mike and everyone here, my name is super8sooty on youtube

[ronypony]

Thanks for the youtube info Boot.....I have subscribed to your channel....

Would you mind showing me where on the Bell and Howell you mounted the micro switch to trigger CineCap ?

I would also be interested in the link for the geared motor from ebay....thanks mate..

Mike

[boobootrasher]

Hi , very happy to know you. I will put on here my best test very soon

[boobootrasher]

Bell & Howell 1462 and 1481 both are the same, well sort of. I have used these projectors for 30 years

[boobootrasher]

Hi Boot

Good to hear from you again....eh I think your right...most of us are too obsessed with the Eumig 610D.

They are so well built but as you say they are difficult to trigger with CineCap....

Which model of Bell and Howell did you use ? ......could you show us where you mounted the switch on

your projector with a photo.

How about showing us some of your results...I'd love to see some

regards

Mike

Hi Mike, I have 2 videos for you all to watch. The first is a film called The Worm that turned. I have not done a cinicape job on this yet for various reasons. This was transferred with an ordinary projector at 18fps. You can compare this latest job with an old transfer of the same film that you will find on my Chanel. I’m sure you will find a remarkable improvement. Be sure to read all about the write ups and descriptions too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-uNFR0Op-E
Next is my latest test, and takes a bit to explain. I had a 400ft reel of my most precious movies transferred by the people at Videostation, probably the leading tellicine company in Europe. It was tranfered at 25fps so I could restore individual frames if needed, then cinecaped it down to 18fps. This was done on a machine called a Flashscan because some of my footage had broken or missing sprocket holes. Look these guys up. They are not amateurs!! I was about 85% happy with their work, the other 15% I would say, would be down to me having to sit there while they carried out the job and act as a grader. More money than I have! So the transfer was as good as good as I was ever going to get.
I took the same film and put it through my Bell & Howell with the enlarged gate and original light source, and if my memory serves me correctly, projected it on a piece of A4. I used my old Sony single chip dv camera which is about 8 years old.
On this video my footage is in the foreground showing the full gate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSDN8alAkiQ

[boobootrasher]

Thanks for the youtube info Boot.....I have subscribed to your channel....

Would you mind showing me where on the Bell and Howell you mounted the micro switch to trigger CineCap ?

I would also be interested in the link for the geared motor from ebay....thanks mate..

Mike

I believe that I bought the motor from here.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DC-12V-5W-300-RPM-High-Torque-Gear-Box-Electric-Motor-/220645822...ht_2543wt_1000

[boobootrasher]

Two things are holding my project back now. First, I only have a 10x zoom camera and although I have a very nice collection of different sized condenser/convex lenses to choose from, some as large as 6", a 10x times zoom is only just enough crop the image with out distortion. This was probably my best transfer using the Eumig with the standard switch and cinecap setup. The contrast ratio of video is nothing like film and it shows here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HopCgI_4qSw

[boobootrasher]

You really need a 12x zoom to lick this comfortably.. I have played around with web cams too and done almost exactly the same as described by John DS-8 about a year ago. The results were very interesting but I ruined several web cams along the way and now all my mates are wondering why they can’t see me on msn lol. After all when have you ever come across a 3 chip web cam with fire wire. Sorry John I don’t mean to be derogative here, I know the results can be astonishing and your jpgs look great, I have heard of many to achieve this very successfully.
I have friends in the broadcast industry who will lend me a camera or it maybe time to trade in the 8 year old 10x zoom Sony dv.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/booboobasher/Super8sooty%20Projector%20Project/switchpic.jpg

[boobootrasher]

You really need a 12x to lick this comfortably.. I have played around with web cams too and done almost exactly the same as described by John DS-8 about a year ago. The results were very interesting but I ruined several web cams along the way and now all my mates are wondering why they can’t see me on msn lol. After all when have you ever come across a 3 chip web cam with fire wire.
Sorry John I don’t mean to be derogative here, I know the results can be astonishing and your jpgs look great, I have heard of many to achieve this very successfully.
I have friends in the broadcast industry who will lend me a camera or it maybe time to trade in the 8 year old 10x zoom Sony dv.
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/booboobasher/Super8sooty%20Projector%20Project/switchpic.jpg

[boobootrasher]

Secondly the switch. I have put my Eumig in the loft. Mike you asked about the placement of the switch on the Bell & Howell, well the options are endless compared the 610D and I am 100% confident that anyone with a minimal mechanical and electronic experience would get this projector to trigger and tap dance, just look at the room inside! I had the micro switch triggering off from the one remaining blade. Then I thought of triggering from a home made cam on the shaft. Both ideas will work easily. Look at the picture, sorry about the rather crude drawings of a micro switch. The shaft is highlighted in blue and is directly linked the shutter. Then I thought about proximity switches, after all, no bouncing or mechanical failure. Then I find out about this Hall switch idea. For me, it’s not about where or if, but more of a case of the best kind of switch to use.

[boobootrasher]

Hi everyone. I have almost finnished my project. I have a working exanple. It's a bit slap hazard
at the moment as there are a lot of things that need to be tidyed up. But it works And I loose
no frames! Mike, I hope you can see the switch setup there. The red LED is for reference really,
telling me that the micro switch is working fine (taken from the push to break side of the switch,
Push to make is for the mouse) The mini double poll toggle switch (green LED) is to switch the
mouse on and off via the av connection at the rear. I have updated the main LED light which is far
brighter now which is good, as it is of course still cold I am looking into dimming it with a 1k pot
for extra exposure control. On this particular projector I have not enlarged the gate yet, but
that will be the finnishing off, I'm sorry for the very rough and crude look into the lense test but it's
all there and ready to try when I have the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx4IbmrSUyY

[fjutt]

hi Boobootrasher!

This looks really cool! I hope to continue building my telecine soon too.
This is fun!!
Keep us posted.
Frans

[VanBerg]

Hallo,

I did some DIY-telecine years ago with video, and now I'm back in the field trying to get my films on DVD. I read a lot on info on this forum, thanks!
I thought I'd share my experiences: I too use a Eumig 610D in combination with a DV-camera. And I tried to get the mini-switch right and it didn't work for me...
Since I'm better at programming and at computers than at converting projectors or building technical appliances I tried getting rid of the mini-switch all together by doing the following:

I set the projector on 3FPS (I think that after more testing this could be set faster). I then simply capture not only the still pictures from the DV-camera, but the entire film, using VirtualDub (space is no problem, an hour of filming takes up 13 GB). I now have an interlaced film of 25 FPS and I know that within every second there are at least 3 frames of my film.
So I made a script in Avisynth that extracts for me the 3 pictures I need in full de-interlaced resolution of 720/576. And that works very well.

At the moment I am still waiting for a LED-lamp I ordered, so I only tested it with the original 100W projectorlamp, and though the brightness and contrast are not what they should be the results I am getting with this script are already very satisfying. When my LED-lamp arrives I can upload an example.

If there is anyone who - like me - is not too technical and would like to test my method, then I am of course willing to post the script...

[fjutt]

Very Interesting concept! However I wonder how this takes care of the flickering of the shutter blade. As I understood that the Eumig keeps the same shutter speed all the time regardless if you project 3 or 18 fps.

Surely I would be interested to see any results you have!

Frans

[fjutt]

Hi everyone. I have almost finnished my project. I have a working exanple. It's a bit slap hazard
at the moment as there are a lot of things that need to be tidyed up. But it works And I loose
no frames! Mike, I hope you can see the switch setup there. The red LED is for reference really,
telling me that the micro switch is working fine (taken from the push to break side of the switch,
Push to make is for the mouse) The mini double poll toggle switch (green LED) is to switch the
mouse on and off via the av connection at the rear. I have updated the main LED light which is far
brighter now which is good, as it is of course still cold I am looking into dimming it with a 1k pot
for extra exposure control. On this particular projector I have not enlarged the gate yet, but
that will be the finnishing off, I'm sorry for the very rough and crude look into the lense test but it's
all there and ready to try when I have the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx4IbmrSUyY

What Ledlamp are you using? and you use a 1 k pot to dim it? Is that all one needs?

Thanks!
Frans

[fjutt]

Just found a cool link. OK it is in Dutch but I think that for not so much one could build a dim able LED source even with remote control!
http://www.ledlampendirect.nl/

I think if one buys the following it would work:
Powersupply:
http://www.ledlampendirect.nl/led-transformator-12v-1-5a-max-18-watt.html

Dimmer:
http://www.ledlampendirect.nl/led-dimmer-12v-24v-700-ma-met-afstandsbediening.html

Lamp:
http://www.ledlampendirect.nl/led-lamp-12-24-volt-g4-gu4-mr11-2-4-watt-plat-vervangt-20w.html

This together would be like EUR 55.
Comments/Ideas?

Frans

[boobootrasher]

Hi everyone. I have almost finnished my project. I have a working exanple. It's a bit slap hazard
at the moment as there are a lot of things that need to be tidyed up. But it works And I loose
no frames! Mike, I hope you can see the switch setup there. The red LED is for reference really,
telling me that the micro switch is working fine (taken from the push to break side of the switch,
Push to make is for the mouse) The mini double poll toggle switch (green LED) is to switch the
mouse on and off via the av connection at the rear. I have updated the main LED light which is far
brighter now which is good, as it is of course still cold I am looking into dimming it with a 1k pot
for extra exposure control. On this particular projector I have not enlarged the gate yet, but
that will be the finnishing off, I'm sorry for the very rough and crude look into the lense test but it's
all there and ready to try when I have the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx4IbmrSUyY

What Ledlamp are you using? and you use a 1 k pot to dim it? Is that all one needs?

Thanks!
Frans

Hi this is the lamp I am using, got it from here
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290481968068&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

I didnt have good results from domestic lighting transformers and dimmers, I had a spare 1 k pot hanging around, i tried it and it gave me a good results

[boobootrasher]

Forgot to say again, keep an eye on colour temp with the leds, oh and all my parts come to about £30 so far. The prjector was £20 delivered from ebay.

[fjutt]

Forgot to say again, keep an eye on colour temp with the leds, oh and all my parts come to about £30 so far. The prjector was £20 delivered from ebay.

What should the color temp be best?

[VanBerg]

I have put a little sample of my first test here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCVoESi0M80

Like you, Frans, I was afraid of the possible flicker of the shutter, but I keep the shutter of the camera relatively long: on 1/50th of a second. After all, whenever the shutter of the projector is opened the picture it shows is a still frame. And it works really fine.

Now I'm waiting for the LED-lamp. I tried one before together with a King's optical diffuser, but in very bright scenes taken at sea you could still see the different LED's through the diffuser. Now I found another LED from this site http://www.easy-transfert.com/product.php?id_product=39 that already has a built-in diffuser. I mailed to the people behind the site and now I have ordered one.
They use them for their own telecines, it has a colortemperature of 6000k (bright daylight) and 50 lumen. My previous LED also had a colortemperature of 6000k and gave really bright sparkling colors.

The thing I have most trouble with is the high contrast of film. The fact that the whites are so very white they loose all detail, as you can see in the white collars of the drummers in my testfilm. I hope the new lightsource handles this better...

[fjutt]

WOW very nice result! The reason for the bright white spots is why I looked at this dimmer http://www.ledlampendirect.nl/led-dimmer-12v-24v-700-ma-met-afstandsbediening.html

Ihope that I can lower the lightsource enough in the 'overexposed' parts of the films.

well as always.. we need to keep trying!

But indeed I do not notice the flickering : This is great news would love to try this! Can you share the script please?

Thanks!
Frans

[wadiigo]

Hallo,

I did some DIY-telecine years ago with video, and now I'm back in the field trying to get my films on DVD. I read a lot on info on this forum, thanks!
I thought I'd share my experiences: I too use a Eumig 610D in combination with a DV-camera. And I tried to get the mini-switch right and it didn't work for me...
Since I'm better at programming and at computers than at converting projectors or building technical appliances I tried getting rid of the mini-switch all together by doing the following:

I set the projector on 3FPS (I think that after more testing this could be set faster). I then simply capture not only the still pictures from the DV-camera, but the entire film, using VirtualDub (space is no problem, an hour of filming takes up 13 GB). I now have an interlaced film of 25 FPS and I know that within every second there are at least 3 frames of my film.
So I made a script in Avisynth that extracts for me the 3 pictures I need in full de-interlaced resolution of 720/576. And that works very well.

At the moment I am still waiting for a LED-lamp I ordered, so I only tested it with the original 100W projectorlamp, and though the brightness and contrast are not what they should be the results I am getting with this script are already very satisfying. When my LED-lamp arrives I can upload an example.

If there is anyone who - like me - is not too technical and would like to test my method, then I am of course willing to post the script...

I check this forum daily and look forward to new info being posted. I get giddy when I see the post number has increased since my last look.

I too am having difficulty with the erratic triggering of the micro switch and am interested in the script you have for Avisynth. I would like to give that a try. I am not too savvy with electronics but I was reading up on Hall Effect sensors and I think that would be the way to go for the Eumigs.

How about it forum...could a Hall Effect be used in place of the micro? Attach a magnet to the tensioner and have slide adjustment for the sensor? Don't think me ignorant, I'm a carpenter.

[VanBerg]

Here's a link to my Avisynth-script: http://rapidshare.com/files/447765512/Teleci
de.avs If you haven't got the called DLL's you can find them here: http://neuron2.net/mine.html You need the Decomb-filter and the FDecimate filter. I have tested it on a few films now and I'm very pleased with it. It nicely filters out the frames I want and produces an 18 FPS film.

After this script I use another script I found on the internet: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144271
This script really helped me to understand Avisynth, as before I only used VirtualDub. I tested it a lot and changed it to better fit my needs and so that the processing order in my opinion is better. I restored the sample on Youtube also with this script.
At the moment my own script is like this: http://rapidshare.com/files/447765515/Bewerk
ing.avs. But it is likely to change when I receive the LED-lamp and go on testing.

Frans, about the colortemperature: you can read on Wikipedia about 'kleurtemperatuur' (I know that you are, like me, dutch). There you can see that colortemperature of daylight is anywhere between 5000K and 6000K. This is the best colortemperature to look for in a lamp. I know that there are people who use Red, Green and Blue LED's that they can adjust separately, but for me that gets too technical, so I'll stick to a single lamp.

[fjutt]

Here's a link to my Avisynth-script: http://rapidshare.com/files/447765512/Teleci
de.avs If you haven't got the called DLL's you can find them here: http://neuron2.net/mine.html You need the Decomb-filter and the FDecimate filter. I have tested it on a few films now and I'm very pleased with it. It nicely filters out the frames I want and produces an 18 FPS film.

After this script I use another script I found on the internet: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144271
This script really helped me to understand Avisynth, as before I only used VirtualDub. I tested it a lot and changed it to better fit my needs and so that the processing order in my opinion is better. I restored the sample on Youtube also with this script.
At the moment my own script is like this: http://rapidshare.com/files/447765515/Bewerk
ing.avs. But it is likely to change when I receive the LED-lamp and go on testing.

Frans, about the colortemperature: you can read on Wikipedia about 'kleurtemperatuur' (I know that you are, like me, dutch). There you can see that colortemperature of daylight is anywhere between 5000K and 6000K. This is the best colortemperature to look for in a lamp. I know that there are people who use Red, Green and Blue LED's that they can adjust separately, but for me that gets too technical, so I'll stick to a single lamp.

Thanks! Great info! and I'm waiting for my led's the good thing (even if the colour temp is wrong of the led I ordered) is that the adaptor and dimmer will work. I linked that the dimmer has 4 customizable presets so it is easy to control via a remote device and/or a turnable pot meter. Did you look at the site I bought the led and dimmer from? I'll try to order led's from Conrad.

BTW When I used a halogen lamp I found out that 5 watt was more then enough and still overexposed the white parts. So I think low watt led should do the trick as well.

Frans