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  1. Member
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    I don't seem to be able to load the rest of the images, so this is the rest of my posting without them.
    As I am bringing the 5 V from the USB into the projector I used a 4-pin min DIN connector as used by a mouse or keyboard. The plug goes on the detector board from the projector and the socket is on the mouse end. This is to prevent shorting the 5 V and damaging the USB driver in the PC.

    I am sure there are better ways to mount, but mechanics is not my strong point. This photo shows the detector mounted on the post and then moved to be close to the white shutter blade.
    img_5220%20detector1.jpg
    While I adjusted the position of the strip board, it snapped by the hole I drilled for the tie wrap. I glued it back together and soldered some 2.5 mm copper wire from a mains cable along the tracks by the hole to give it some strength.

    This made the board too high to fit back on the right of the post, so I reinstalled it on the left and it is now at about a 30 degree angle to the blade. You can actually get it in here without having to dismantle the gears. The photo below is trying to show this, but I just couldnít get it to focus on the right point.
    img_5229%20detector.jpg
    Now I have a question. Does anyone know how to take the lens assembly apart on the Eumig 610D? I can see there is condensation or dirt on the inside of the lenses and I want to clean them.
    Regards

    JamesReuben
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    Hi James

    This looks interesting, but I'm half way through the other set up. Please look at my previous post about the opal diffuser glass. I have no idea where to look for it

    Thanks
    Albie
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    Originally Posted by avz10
    Thanks Ronypony!

    Advice on the next step please!

    The 20 Watt lamp is in and working, now I need advice on the 50 mm opal diffuser glass. What is that exactly, where does one usually get something like that and are there any alternatives? I might find one of those little editing machines, which one uses to attach films- would that glass be sufficient?

    Thanks
    Albie

    There are a couple of possibilities as far as the 'diffuser' is concerned. You can purchase a high quality opal diffuser made from glass here http://www.knightoptical.co.uk/acatalog/DiffusersFlashedOpalDiffuserDiameter.htm

    The one you want is DFO5000...50mm diameter. They are not expensive and will ship to you quickly OR buy a sheet of this plastic acrylic sheet and cut your own...much much cheaper...works just as well as the glass and an A4 sheet will provide a dozen 50mm diffusers
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250368199792

    I use the original metal wire clip that holds the bulb in the holder to secure the diffusser...like this
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    James

    Your triggering system looks fantastic...you know whats coming don't you

    Please start producing kits for purchase including detailed instructions on how to fit said kit to projector

    Seriously though I would be incredibly interested in this innovative triggering system.
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    Thanks for that

    Im just not clear. I will buy a sheet of this plastic acrylic sheet and cut my own. Is that the stuff with the one side being sticky that you put on a surface or what do you use it for- sorry about my ignorance.

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    Avz10 Ė I just use a piece of plain white paper as a diffuser, held in with paper clips. May not be as good as an opal diffuser, but it seems to work.

    Ronypony Ė I will try to write this up properly, but it will be after Easter. It is basically the circuit in the top left of figure 1 at http://www.jeffree.co.uk/pages/revmaster.htm plus a switch to disable the detector input and another switch to create a left mouse click for testing (I find the USB mouse tends to go to sleep after a while not being used and it allows me to check itís registering the left click before I start the projector going).

    In the circuit, the 0 V and clock outputs go to the left mouse button as before (making sure the 0 V goes to the 0 V side on the mouse). The tricky thing is to find where to get the 5 V from the USB. Donít use phonos as there is a real danger of shorting the 5 V and I donít know whether USB drivers protect against this. I found the 5 V on one end of a resistor, but it was really tight to solder it. the red wire below is the 5 V pickup.

    img_5187%20mouse%20internal.jpg
    Regards

    JamesReuben
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    James, doesn't white paper block too much? I have obtained a 20 Watt light.

    Was just thinking of other possibilities as well- this is a garden light wit a white plastic cover, wouldnt that be a possibility or frosted glass?

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    The diffuser is ...as its name suggests...used to evenly diffuse/distribute light across the whole frame of film as it runs through the gate of the projector preventing 'hot spots' on your transfered footage. I would have thought that paper would not provide an even distribution of light...also there is still quite a bit of heat from a 20 watt bulb...I am sure this would cinge the paper turning it brown eventually. The acrylic plastic is simply an A4 sheet...no sticky side at all. The photo you posted Albie shows a protective sheet of paper that you simply peel off. I used a compass to draw out a 50 mm circle...then drew a square around the circle...cut out the square and then trimmed the edges off the square until I had a perfect 50mm circle of plastic...you could use a 50mm hole saw to obtain your circle if you have one.
    I bought the A4 sheet off the Ebay link I posted. The sheet has excellent diffusing properties and is not affected by the heat from the bulb. I did swop out the 20 watt bulb for a a G4 fitting LED light source (no heat at all)...but it was not that successful so went back to the 20w bulb.

    I reckon any hardware or art store would be able to provide such a sheet of opaque acrylic platic sheet.

    The garden light cover might work...is it opaque ?...i.e. not transparent...if so it will probably do the job.
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    I am having trouble finding a copy of cinecap (pc) or capturemate (mac). I have the trial version of capturemate but you can only capture 350 frames. Does anyone have any older full versions of either of the software that they are willing to share or let me purchase? I would really appricate any help on this.

    I have build the machine on http://www.movie2video.com/ only with out the frame counter. if you have any questions regarding my design i would be glad to answer any questions.
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    Check your private messages rlorenz2
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    Originally Posted by ronypony
    The diffuser is ...as its name suggests...used to evenly diffuse/distribute light across the whole frame of film as it runs through the gate of the projector preventing 'hot spots' on your transfered footage. I would have thought that paper would not provide an even distribution of light...also there is still quite a bit of heat from a 20 watt bulb...I am sure this would cinge the paper turning it brown eventually.
    I have just finished capturing my mother-in-law's three hours of cine. I think you may be right about the paper having a hot spot. It does a fairly good job of spreading the light, but right at the corners of the frame it can look a bit dark. No sign of it going brown yet, but it is something I am aware I need to look out for. I think I will try to get some acrylic sheet before attempting my father's 20 hours worth.

    Once I had everything lined up I was able to keep loading another reel and capture again. I only had three problems: making sure the gate was clean, one broken splice and trying to make the frames not overexposed.

    The overexposure was due to my camcorder. Despite the manual claiming I could turn off auto exposure, most of the settings resulted in flashing images as the camcorder kept trying to adjust for the different light levels as the gate opens and closes. The only one that worked was a low light setting, but even this took about three seconds where it adjusted light levels when the projector came off a black leader. I will have to correct the exposure on the PC.
    Regards

    JamesReuben
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    Nice one James...

    Get the acrylic sheet here

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250368199792

    or

    Glass diffuser here


    http://www.knightoptical.co.uk/acatalog/DiffusersFlashedOpalDiffuserDiameter.htm


    As far as your exposure problems are concerned..I too have experienced the flashing/pulsing you describe.
    Surely under the manual exposure setting on your camcorder the f stop value will remain set unless you 'manually' change it .....least thats how it works on my camcorder. I can increse or decrease exposure settings on the fly during capture...a little adjustment here and there if I need to.

    White balance is crucial too...I have my camera set at a 50% setting...try messing about with your white balance settings...see if that helps.....also use manual focus too...this prevents the camera from 'hunting' as light levels of footage change.
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    Iíve come to the conclusion that the real trick here is to capture the frame exactly as the film is held stationary and the shutter is fully open. After several more tests, I do not think that the micro switch in the said place is the way to go, especially if you have damaged film as I do. Sure, it seems to work fine with a fresh 50 ft roll but I donít like the idea of losing odd frames here and there on the strength of a very difficult to adjust micro switch.
    Back to my own tests again as said in my last post. I have studied the frames pre- cinicap,. and to my utter amazement have found that some frames seem combined together. The camera that I was using has a very slow stutter speed and I can only imagine that this is the cause of my jerkiness after converting. The film was captured at 3 fps. This leads me on to another question.. 3 fps is believe it or not is to fast for me, all my footage is changing very fast and it is difficult to keep up when using the cameraís exposure controls. (You know, I donít like the idea of a new shot opening either burnt out or too dark for an odd frame.) Iíve been thinking to change the 601D so that it can be hand cranked. I know what you are saying now... That im time stupid, but this is my own very treasured home movies. I donít compare myself with those who wish to do thousands of ft in a business venture.
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    Have you attempted a tranfer in real time at 18fps ?......I get pretty decent results with this type of transfer...less than 3fps will take forevever to transfer even a 50 foot reel of film...jeez even 3fps is sloooooooow
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    Boobootrasher the speed you can capture can be very dependent on your PC. I used to have a PC that was about 4 or 5 years old, 2.6 GHz with a single hard disk. I thought this should be plenty fast enough, but the trouble with the single hard disk is that Windows is forever accessing it in the background so just downloading normal video from a digital camcorder would drop frames. I solved this by buying a second hard disk used exclusively for the video.

    Last Christmas I bought Cinecap and started experimenting with the microswitch set up. Like you I found it was very variable, dependent on the tension of different bits of the film. I started at 9 fps then had to drop to 6 fps, but I lost frames due to both the microswitch and the PC not keeping up.

    Then my son complained he had a game that wouldnít run on our old computer so eventually I bought a new one with quad core 2.4 GHz and two hard drives in a RAID 0 array (load sharing). I also changed my capture signal to use the infra red photo diode I have mentioned above. I can now capture at a full 18 fps and donít drop a frame.

    I know itís not easy to just go out and buy a new PC. If it wasnít for my son and his game I would still be on the old PC but using the infra red. There are things you can do for your existing PC to help improve the capture speed. The first thing to try would be to defrag the hard disk. If itís badly fragmented the hard disk will take a lot of time trying to find free spaces which cuts your capture speed. If you can afford it I would recommend installing a second hard disk of at least 250 GB. This can be used exclusively for video and wonít be spending time going off doing Windows background tasks.

    I hope something of this is helpful to you and you can improve your capture speed.

    Originally Posted by ronypony
    As far as your exposure problems are concerned..I too have experienced the flashing/pulsing you describe.
    Surely under the manual exposure setting on your camcorder the f stop value will remain set unless you 'manually' change it .....least thats how it works on my camcorder. I can increse or decrease exposure settings on the fly during capture...a little adjustment here and there if I need to.

    White balance is crucial too...I have my camera set at a 50% setting...try messing about with your white balance settings...see if that helps.....also use manual focus too...this prevents the camera from 'hunting' as light levels of footage change.
    Thanks for the advice. I donít get any control over the f stop, there are just five preset modes called things like sport, snow, spotlight and low light. Manual focus I can control so that is already sorted out. White balance I can adjust but havenít so far as it seemed to be keeping the colours reasonable. I will try this locked at 50% to start with and see how it affects the flashing. I can adjust my exposure in software but it would be better if it was right in the first place. I will also get the acrylic sheet.
    Regards

    JamesReuben
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    Iím happy to spend the time at 3 fps. My PC is about 3 - 4 years old. Itís an Athlon 3.800 GHz 64 with 1.5 G of RAM. I have 2 x 200 G hard drives with a good graphics card. At the time of purchase it was the fastest thing going.. I think she still holds up ok The camera is connected by fire wire.
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    I would like to summarize where I am in the process and my big obstacles.

    I converted the mouse:

    Remember it should be under the left "click".
    This is working well.

    I changed the light to a 20 Watt (I have just changed to a 50 Watt, will explain)


    This is the diffuser- bought some plastic with diffusing properties


    Built a stand for the projector and lens


    But really struggled to get a picture using just the lens and the camera, so I changed to a piece of white paper to project on. Light was to weak, so I changed it to 50 Watt, no hot spot. Would this be a major problem?

    My biggest problem (PROBLEM 1)- erratic clicking of the microswitch. I bought a meter with a buzzer, but with any film change, the tension is not the same and I get either no capturing, or erratic capturing. This is most probably the result of different tension in different films. So my feeling is that one should try to move away from the trigger that is dependant on film tension.


    I was thinking, as the rear wheel is turning relatively slowly, can't one put a microswitch here?


    There is an opening for a small piece of metal, that if added can trigger a microswitch?


    My last question is about the settings of Cinecap. Before I capture frames, do I need to set it at 15/16 fps? When I play back, it always look as if it is in fast forward (Please take me through this process step by step)


    Thanks in advance.
    So basically 2 problems: erratic working of the microswitch and how to set cine cap

    Edit:
    I think I have solved the speed transfer.

    This is how I have it:

    I drag the 8mm AVI to the 15/16 filder and then process it. Without testing it properly, it looks as if the speed is right now.

    Erratic working of microswitch

    I transferred some film last night. The way that I am doing it now, causes the projected image to be a bit weak- so my light will need to be stronger, but the quality was quite good. Nothing that Virtualdub cannot fix, BUT especially when I start, I lose frames. This becomes better halfway through the film[/b]
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    Further to my last post, I was playing around with the idea if one cannot mount the microswitch at the rear spindle wheel.





    This pin with some modification, might trigger a microswitch, but it might cause a problem when one rewinds a film. The round wheel, closest to the camera feels as if it is moving at a constant speed.

    Looking at the front, that wheel is moving at different speeds. I was thinking, if one could put a wider wheel between the wheel and the body of the camera, might that not work? But then I suppose, the new "wheel" will need to have several notches in the circumference???





    Any help please???
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    I am puzzled that the conversion you did with the standard 15/16 fps category looks ok, all this does is interlace the frames with no speed change. As you say the unconverted film looks like itís in fast forward it would indicate you need to change speed. By default the cine should be 18 fps and if you play it back without conversion it will run it at 25 fps so it will look a bit fast.

    The following is based on Wikipedia stating that South Africa uses PAL at 25 fps. If this is not the case you will need to adjust accordingly.

    The cine you are capturing is at 18 fps (standard cine 8 mm speed) and you need to change to 25 fps. To do this in CineCap, go to the Multiple File Speed Change dialog and click on the Add Category button. Enter a name in the Descriptive name box, then click on the arrow for Make video playback look like. In the drop down list that appears select Custom. Now click the Suggest button next to the Custom Pattern and in the dialog box that opens set film speed to 18 and Video Speed to 25 fps (PAL), then click ok.

    Now click on Compression Codec and select DV video Encoder. You can now click on the Image Flip drop down and select Horizontal Flip. Finally you can click on ďUse Interlacing for Smoother PlaybackĒ, I donít have this set but I havenít played with it to see if itís better. You could always set up two different speed change categories, one with and one without interlacing so you could compare results.

    When you have done all this the dialog box will look like this and you can press on Add. Now drag your files to be converted to the new 25 fps category you have created.

    Regarding the capture problems and the microswitch I donít think you can easily use the rear spindle. Yes the sprocket will be moving at a constant speed, but it may be difficult to convert this to a frame trigger and get the timing right. The round wheel is the tension adjustment for the clutch on the rear spindle. As the rear spindle fills with film it will gradually slow down and the clutch is adjusted to slip so the reel will just take up the slack without breaking the film.

    I also had problems with the microswitch and used the infra red detector I described above. Due to problems loading images, you have to click on some of the links in my postings to see the images. Another solution has been done by Hergow (see above) where he has fitted a cam on the main drive shaft.
    Regards

    JamesReuben
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    Hi James

    Thanks for the comments, but I have stopped because I struggle with the microswitch. I want to use your method with the IR receiver, but the article you used is totally above my head!!!The photos confuses me, etc.

    I understand the principle (IR to circuit to mouse), but the detail is my problem.

    Is this the circuit you used?


    Now this is the first part of your circuit. Is this mainly for the IR, or what are the other parts- or to make it easier- to what photo does this correspond?


    Or to make my life easier, what are the components used?

    Same questions here:


    This part I will be able to manage:


    So, in other words, if I go to an electronic shop, what do I need to buy and if you can draw a rough sketch of how everything fits together or refer me to the relevant pictures, I will really be grateful

    Thanks
    Albie

    (Just two things- I upload photos with photobucket-(under the photo, I used the Image code link) and in Picasa from Google, one can add text to a photo)
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    Albie

    Going back to projecting on a piece of paper is kind of defeating the purpose.You may as well just transfer off the wall. If I were you I would try the 20w bulb and lens once more. Before attempting to capture with your camcorder have some film running through the projector at say 9fps. Take a sheet of paper and tape it to the front of your condenser lens. Now project onto the paper and move your lens closer or further away from the projector until you have a nice sharp image on the paper. It will only be a small image.Once you have your lens set at the correct distance from the projector you can remove the paper.Mark this distance so you dont have to keep measuring it.Now crouch down and look through your condenser lens with one eye shut ..move your head until you see the image 'floating' in the lens. This is the image you will record with your camcorder....rewind your film and project at 3fps to capture using CineCap and modified mouse.

    Take your captured footage from the folder it was captured to and drag the file into the 18fps folder under 'speed change' in CineCap...let CineCap process the footage...voila..play back processed file and it will be running at 18fps.

    I dont like to be critical but you microswitch adjuster looks non too clever to me dude...is it doing its job of preventing the switch from moving. Remember the switch can only be moved to the right by the film tensioner...its the 'adjusters job to prevent this movement of the microswitch from happening....I find my version of the adjuster does a pretty good job of ensuring reliable triggering even with different film stocks running through the projector.

    Have another crack at it...I am sure you can achieve some decent transfers once you have things set up right.

    Here is a simple 'jig/base I constructed out of wood to keep things lined up....it works well










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    Thanks for your comments.

    Take a sheet of paper and tape it to the front of your condenser lens. Now project onto the paper and move your lens closer or further away from the projector until you have a nice sharp image on the paper. It will only be a small image.Once you have your lens set at the correct distance from the projector you can remove the paper.Mark this distance so you dont have to keep measuring it.
    This is exactly what I did, and I fixed the lens with screws on that spot. But I struggled to find the image in the lens with my camcorder, although it was clear on the paper. I kept on getting the white circle. So, I was projecting through the lens on to the paper and taped that. But I'm happy to try again.

    If I position the microswitch when the film is halfway, I can get it 100%. It captures every frame, my problem is at the beginning of the film that frames are dropped. But there is no rush, I will keep on playing. I just thought that James' way sounded good, but I've never built a circuit, so I thought I'll give it a go- if I understand all the finer details!!

    Albie
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    James, I posted the same post that I posted yesterday (18 April) on an electronics website. This is what a guy answered:

    First, some of what you have posted does not seem to be related to what you want to do. Specifically, the schematic you posted is for a tachometer. It uses reflected IR to generate pulses that are counted with the microcontroller (16F84) and displayed on an LCD as RPM or some other function, such as cutting speed for a lathe. Your project seems much simpler.

    Refer to a redrawn portion from the posted schematic:



    The +5V and ground come from the mouse. R1 limits the current to the IR emitting diode (IRED) in the sensor device. As the reflected IR light hits the detector, it allows more current to pass. Voltage drop across R2 increases, and thus the signal goes from +5V (no current through R2) to some much lower value. NB: The part I picked for the schematic is an optocoupler. In your device, the IRED is not pointed directly at the detector, but rather is pointed perpendicular to it, so the detector sees only reflected light. In your picture, the sensor is the rectangular black device with 4 pins.

    The rest of the schematic you posted is not related to your project. I believe the mouse modification you show in your earlier post simply takes that "low" signal and treats is as a "click", i.e., switch closure, for one of the mouse buttons. At least, that's what the picture of the modified mouse PCB looks like has been done. You may need some interfacing, but it may also just work as is. You also show a small interface box. It is hard to know what is in it from the picture.

    The "mouse click" from the optical sensor then keys the camera via a program in your PC. R2 is probably a fairly high value, maybe 1K to 10K ohms. R1 is probably just 100 to 200 ohm. I could not find the part number you reference in the source of datasheets I use.
    Is that what you did and what are the values of the components?

    Thanks
    Albie
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    Albie

    If you are having difficulty focusing on the 'ariel' image in the condenser lens try this :

    Ensure you have a nice sharp ariel image and then position your tripod with camcorder about 25 cm away from the condenser lens. Try to focus in on the ariel image at this distance. Depending on what you get you may have to move the tripod closer to the lens or further away. You need to experiment with this stage until you get the 'sweet spot' when you will seee a sharp in focus image in your camcorder's LCD screen.Once you have established this crucial distance it will be a lot easier to set up time after time.

    Give it another go. I would try to find a more suitable piece of plastic/wood for your microswitch srew adjuter.
    I used a little bit of plastic which was originaly used hold up shelves in a shelving unit.-
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    I haven't really done a lot, just had time this morning to figure out James' project. Just to see if I am heading the right direction:



    If I connect my multimeter to the mouse with the black cable connected to "E" and the red cable to "F" and the reading is +3.3 Volt, does it mean that E is the signal or F is the signal? Does this mean that E is 0 Volt and F is the signal?

    My next question is about finding a 5 Volt spot. "A" is connected to the red mouse cable and from what I have read is 5 Volt (??)

    And then some help with the Photo reflector. What would be similar products that I can try and found in South Africa?

    Thanks for any advice. I havent tried thee microswitch again, nor did I try to find the aerial image
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    I attach better photos of the mouse, for you that know circuits/electronics!





    Thanks!
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    Photos are much clearer. I have also found the spec sheet for the main controller IC on your mouse so I have been able to confirm the pins. On your drawing above, A is 0V as is E (the USB wire colours donít match the ones in the link I sent you previously). Pin B is 5V and F is your signal input. Looking at your later photo there is an empty hole where you can pick up the 5V or if you prefer on one end of a resistor (make sure you take it from the end shown).

    I am looking into other IR detectors available in SA and will get back to you. http://za.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=1944018 looks a good candidate, but I am still checking resistor values.


    Regards

    JamesReuben
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    Thanks James

    Finally I can go ahead. Will probably start next week to build!!

    Will keep everyone posted
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    Hi James

    I think I will use the Optek IR sensor that you directed me to. Their address is not far from where we live.

    Hopefully one of the last questions- what cable is suppose to connect to what pin??





    So to summarize:

    I have a 5 Volt point
    My signal is "F" as in the previous post
    Ground goes nowhere
    and I need a 270 Ohm and 10 KOhm resistor.

    Is this right?

    Will buy this week and then gradually start to build

    Thanks for all your trouble

    Albie
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    I've been looking further at the Optek OPB608A. You can get a more up to date spec sheet for it here http://www.optekinc.com/datasheets/OPB608.PDF. As you found earlier the input from your mouse switch is normally at 3.3 V, the spec sheet for your mouse controller confirms this http://www.emc.com.tw/twn/database/Data_Sheet/PC/eKM8065.pdf. Because of this I think it is safer if the transistor part of the detector uses 3.3 V, while the LED part carries on with 5 V. Again there is an empty hole on your mouse where you can pick up the 3.3 V.

    Because of the change of device and the 3.3 V you also need to change the resistor values. I have annotated a modified circuit for you. R1 is now 180 ohms and R2 is 7k2 (7200 ohms). Be careful with the pinout of the OPB608A, pins 2 and 4 that you need to connect together are diagonally opposite.

    You asked previously about the small box in my photos with the switches on. This contains the switches and both resistors, while the L shaped pcb only holds the IR detector. This was to allow me to make changes to the resistor values without having to unmount the IR detector every time. The following shows how to achieve this.

    Use a plug and socket to connect the IR detector pcb to the switch box pcb, 4-pin mini DIN is ideal. Make sure the plug connects to the IR detector and the socket to the switch box, this is to make sure the voltages don't get accidentally shorted out. SW1 is a single pole, single throw switch which is essential to isolate the IR detector. With the microswitch design you tried before, once the film stops so do the sync pulses because there is no tension on the film. With the IR detector the sync pulses are generated from the shutter gate which keeps going after the end of the film as long as the projector is playing, so you need to be able to stop this quickly. SW2 is a push to make, non latching pushbutton. It is used for testing purposes to be able to generate a few mouse clicks when needed.

    Be careful when soldering to your mouse, the two connections you have already made look quite large and you need to be sure you don't short any tracks together.

    When you have built the detector circuit try it out on the table by moving a piece of white paper onto and away from the detector to check it triggers a mouse click. Once you are sure it is working, then try mounting in the projector. It is a lot easier to find faults with the detector circuit before you install into the projector.
    Regards

    JamesReuben
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