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  1. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2209837,00.asp

    "Microsoft has extended the life of Windows XP because Vista has simply not shown any life in the market. We have to begin to ask ourselves if we are really looking at Windows Me/2007, destined to be a disdained flop. By all estimates the number of Vista installations hovers around the number of Macs in use.

    How did this happen? And what’s going to happen next? Does Microsoft have a Plan B? A number of possibilities come to mind, and these things must be considered by the company itself.

    So what went wrong with Vista in the first place? Let’s start off with the elephant in the room. The product was overpriced from the outset. Why was it so expensive? What was special about it? All the cool and promised features of the original vision of Longhorn were gutted simply because it was beyond Microsoft’s capability to implement those features.

    This failure to deliver what was promised—even after several delays in the product’s release, by the way—did nothing to excite anyone. It made the company look bad. It directly resulted in a no-confidence vote that was manifested in a lackluster reception and low sales. Microsoft should have scrapped the project two years ago and instead patched XP until it could deliver something hot....."
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  2. Nice to see the PCMag backseat drivers second guessing MS' business model. Some of the assertions are just plain idiotic.

    A product that sells twice the volume of its predecessor over the same period isn't a flop.
    A company that sees its lastest Windows client increase volume by 20% each quarter isn't a flop.
    A company that sees overall growth of 25% isn't a flop.
    A company that can make 75 cents on the dollar per unit sold isn't a flop.

    Inspite of all the (some justified) criticisms of Vista.
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  3. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    Don't need hot. Don't need to sell upgrades retail. Don't need excited.

    All they need to do is work the corporate sales area - its working, and live with the new systems business.

    The bottom line Microsoft numbers look just fine. From 95+% Vista Sales on new machines they'll make to 100% in just a few months, when OEMs can't buy XP.

    XP was great success but the Internet is full of folks who are still running Wiindows 2000. I have NT4.00, Win2000 and XP running on my machines, and we just retired Windows for Workgroups. When I add a new machine I'll add Vista. I'll probably hate it, because I hate change but I'll buy it to run applications which want to run on Vista.
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  4. Member bendixG15's Avatar
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    You didn't post the author of that article ....John C. Dvorak

    That explains all of it.
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  5. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bendixG15
    You didn't post the author of that article ....John C. Dvorak

    That explains all of it.
    Is he still crapping on Microsoft? Its got to be at least 30 years.
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    A company that can make 75 cents on the dollar per unit sold isn't a flop.
    Quite right... it's just F'ing ripping you off BIG time.
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  7. Member oldandinthe way's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by halsboss

    Quite right... it's just F'ing ripping you off BIG time.
    If you are being ripped off, you must like it. Otherwise you could buy an Apple (IMHO a bigger ripoff) or use Linux.

    Microsoft isn't ripping me off. I buy my computers bundled with a Microsft O/S and don't pay any more than I would for raw hardware or a computer with Linux installed.

    Staples Black Friday Special Laptop with 1gb, Celeron Duo, 8ogb HDD, DVD writer, Vista $349 where's the Microsoft ripoff. Find my a comparable machine with Linux for the price, or even a laptop without O/S.
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  8. Cash cows pay for R&D.

    Supposedly, they dropped more than $6 billion on development.

    It's the same with other companies in the same sector (e.g., Apple) and many other industries.

    That's business in a free market. Everyone is free to vote with their wallet.
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    Originally Posted by bendixG15
    You didn't post the author of that article ....John C. Dvorak

    That explains all of it.
    This guy is just a journalistic hack who is trying to keep his job with sensational copy. He ought to be writing stories for National Inquirer about space alien sightings or something but he can't write well enough for them to hire him so he's stuck at PC Magazine.
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    Originally Posted by oldandinthe way
    If you are being ripped off, you must like it.
    A nonsensical statement. Not everyone is your clone and buys the same as you.

    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Cash cows pay for R&D.
    Supposedly, they dropped more than $6 billion on development.
    So the 75% isn't profit after expenses as suggested etc "make 75 cents on the dollar" ?

    The general tone of replies here is decidedly "MS is fantastic"... OK in one sense I guess as long as it isn't endorsing consumer ripoff (OK for some if they have shares etc).
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  11. Member Marvingj's Avatar
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    Vista was a failure from the beginning, to buggy.
    http://www.absolutevisionvideo.com

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  12. Originally Posted by halsboss
    So the 75% isn't profit after expenses as suggested etc "make 75 cents on the dollar" ?
    Correct. I didn't mean to imply that. I meant that the cost of goods is 25% of the (retail?) price. Compared to some industries, that's high.

    With 60 million licenses sold - most far below the retail price - that's $100 per unit to cover the costs of development (excluding overheads). I don't know what the OEM prices are but they won't be far from this figure. Obviously, ongoing sales will lower the figure.

    Not that MS is overly worried if the (crazed and deranged) pundits like Dvorak are right about Vista being a flop. MS makes most of its money (in descending order) through its server products, MS Office and business installations of the client products. The retail client sector is lower down on the list, possibly lower than embedded and health care.
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  13. Originally Posted by Marvingj
    Vista was a failure from the beginning, to buggy.
    How can billions of dollars in sales in the first 12 months possibly be a failure?

    I work in a different multibillion dollar per company industry seen as obscene and this kind of revenue for a single product within a year of launch would be extraordinarily high.
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  14. Going Mad TheFamilyMan's Avatar
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    Here's my take on Vista:

    I remember when XP was first shipping. Where I work, in a computer lab, it was quite the talk among us. The consensus seemed to be "at last, microsoft has got it right". Few of my co-workers even put off getting a new computer until XP released and was stable, just on it's reputation of being robust compared to earlier windows OSs. Now for Vista, no one at work gives a hoot and all I've heard from coworkers about Vista is how much it sucks on the computer they've just bought. Everyone I know has no plans to upgrade to it, beyond the inevitable new computer purchase in the somewhat distant future. I wonder how common this story is.

    The only people truely excited about Vista are the hardcore gamers that can run DX10 games on their $400+ graphic cards, and even they complain that their favorite old game titles run like crap, compared to how they ran on XP.
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  15. It is a de-facto monopoly situation tho.. who else sells windows besides Microsoft? Their Profit margins are breathtaking, all other companies look on in awe at their audacity..Eu? two fingers! DOj? single finger! Africa? Bribes Galore! Hmmm. China? $1 per copy.. problem solved! Rapacious.. but the end-game is in sight... Google plus Hi speed web.
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  16. Member AlanHK's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by oldandinthe way
    Microsoft isn't ripping me off. I buy my computers bundled with a Microsft O/S and don't pay any more than I would for raw hardware or a computer with Linux installed.
    That's the very definition of rip off. But it's not the guy who wants Windows that's being ripped off, it's the one who doesn't.

    It means if you buy "raw hardware" you're still contributing to Bill Gates as the OEM has factored it into the cost of EVERY PC. Even if you're a Linux zealot who paints over the the Windows key, Bill gets your money when you buy a PC.

    To preempt the "economies of scale" argument, Dell, eg, lets you customise your software install. So to image the hard disk empty, or with Linux, can cost no more to manufacture. Support is handed off to the OS manufacturers.
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  17. Well, there is a different way to look at this.

    Much of Vista derives its code base from what will be the next server (Windows Longhorn Server 2008 or whatever it will be called). (It's very apparent Vista shares its lineage with XP Pro x64 which, in turn, derives from the server family.)

    Part of the quoted $6bn+ development costs for Vista almost certainly include substantial development of the server code. So, Vista (the client version) becomes a gimme for MS. i.e., Vista is a by-product of the ongoing server development. It serves (no pun intended!) to be a cash cow to offset the cost of development of the server product. 60million+ unit sales in one year goes a long way towards that. And Vista sales will keep MS happy until Windows 7 comes along.

    MS really couldn't care less about your average Joe (like you and me who frequent forums like this) - sitting at our computers in our bedrooms/dens/living rooms farting around with consumer software for personal/non-profit reasons. Issues with legacy free/shareware, hardware etc in our sector are of lesser importance to MS.

    MS care greatly about the server sector (the most profitable sector for MS) and the office productivity sector. Lessons learned from Vista will serve them well.
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  18. Originally Posted by AlanHK
    Originally Posted by oldandinthe way
    Microsoft isn't ripping me off. I buy my computers bundled with a Microsft O/S and don't pay any more than I would for raw hardware or a computer with Linux installed.
    That's the very definition of rip off. But it's not the guy who wants Windows that's being ripped off, it's the one who doesn't.

    It means if you buy "raw hardware" you're still contributing to Bill Gates as the OEM has factored it into the cost of EVERY PC. Even if you're a Linux zealot who paints over the the Windows key, Bill gets your money when you buy a PC.

    To preempt the "economies of scale" argument, Dell, eg, lets you customise your software install. So to image the hard disk empty, or with Linux, can cost no more to manufacture. Support is handed off to the OS manufacturers.
    I think your information is out-dated. After all, how come a high-end system from Dell ships for $50 less when installed with Linux? Clearly, Dell can save on the costs by not including Windows, ergo it isn't a case of a Windows license for every computer, irrespective of the OS.

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-windows-tax-is-50-according-to-dell-linu...c-pricing.html

    (The notion of the Windows tax is silly, though. The $50 gets you Windows instead of Linux. No doubt someone will quip that that's $50 wasted but when your time is money, it isn't.)
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    I didn't like it when I heard Vista is a hollywood-driven release intended to lock customers out of doing things with video and audio on their own PCs....

    something about also wasting hardware consumers hardware grunt by doing things like internally checking 30 times per second for protected video/audio paths and extra internal encryption etc (true, google it) ... an o/s driven big business's purposes but paid for (pun intentional) by consumers ...
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  20. Originally Posted by halsboss
    I didn't like it when I heard Vista is a hollywood-driven release intended to lock customers out of doing things with video and audio on their own PCs....

    something about also wasting hardware consumers hardware grunt by doing things like internally checking 30 times per second for protected video/audio paths and extra internal encryption etc (true, google it) ... an o/s driven big business's purposes but paid for (pun intentional) by consumers ...
    You mean checking content once a frame to see if it is encrypted - running on a multi gigahertz PC? There are many other things that the OS does many times a second that no-one seems to care about. Now, if it were 5 million times a second, that might be an issue. And it only affects playback of protected content. Too much FUD about all multimedia being affected.

    Just because it says so on Google doesn't mean it's gospel.
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    You missed the point ... that it does that stuff at all ... how fast COULD it be without embedded crippleware insisted on by - not the paying customer -

    Big companies have tended to lose their way over the last few years, doing things AGAINST their own customers ... not just restricted to the mighty US ...
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  22. Member edDV's Avatar
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    John C. Dvorak was once a useful skeptical source but lately he is just pure skeptical. He has become an act which gets booked to increase ratings.

    Not to say MSFT has done well.
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  23. Member Marvingj's Avatar
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    Making Billions of dollars doesn't constitute for failure. If we feed every poor person in the world will not change their status but fill their belly. Microsoft is in for pure money, they don't care about fixes unless it stops them from making the marginal quarters. If you do it right the first time around, you won't need fixes and etc. Ms is a big fat man trying to put on a thong in the shower...
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  24. Originally Posted by halsboss
    Originally Posted by oldandinthe way
    If you are being ripped off, you must like it.
    A nonsensical statement. Not everyone is your clone and buys the same as you.

    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Cash cows pay for R&D.
    Supposedly, they dropped more than $6 billion on development.
    So the 75% isn't profit after expenses as suggested etc "make 75 cents on the dollar" ?

    The general tone of replies here is decidedly "MS is fantastic"...
    No...

    We take the more realistic approach. We use Microsoft products because we can get our work done. Don't give me any linux garbage, because the expense of training all 200 some odd people in the company I work for on linux and throwing our programs away is astronomical.
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  25. Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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  26. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Vista is the biggest software development failure of all time
    As opposed to what ? The Newton ? Apple Mac Clones ? Coca Cola with Lime ?

    Three of your articles are simple anti-Microsoft for the sake of it and have no credibility as sources. The forth doesn't even support your argument.
    Read my blog here.
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  27. Member Marvingj's Avatar
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    I hate to admit it,I'm MS Hater, So I don't mine using Bogus articles. It just makes me feel good.....
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  28. Originally Posted by Marvingj
    I hate to admit it,I'm MS Hater, So I don't mine using Bogus articles. It just makes me feel good.....
    You hate Microsoft, yet you use Windows XP. You are a walking paradox.
    Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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    I don't hate MS ... not at all.

    Conversely I like my money very much and want to keep most of it... and I dislike very much being forced into things I consider against my interests (eg the audio/video checking when I didn't ask for nor want it and have nil choice to turn it off cause hollywood and bill wanted it that way)...

    you know, like in the now-gone olden days how the customer used to always be right, before big companies started to get uppity
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