Cheap Bluray Player for PC at $199

[Ollie6431]

Philips and Lite-On Digital Solutions just announced a new internal Bluray drive for PC (PLDS DH-4O1S) at $199.
The marketing manager at PLDS said in a statement "...the BD-ROM can serve as a playback device to their HD TVs by connecting an HDMI cable from the PC to the TV. This would save consumers hundreds of dollars on the purchase of a standalone Blu-ray player solely for that purpose."

Who would want to play Bluray disc from the PC to the HDTV this way if one can get the HD-DVD player from Toshiba for $99?

It seems like the Bluray format is in trouble (?)

See full details at:
http://www.gearlog.com/2007/11/cheap_199_bluray_player_announ.php

[rhegedus]

How is this 'news' when Pioneer have had a PC BD drive out for a few months already?

[ntscuser]

Who would want to play Bluray disc from the PC to the HDTV this way if one can get the HD-DVD player from Toshiba for $99?

You can't rip a Blu-Ray disc title with a standalone player

How is this 'news' when Pioneer have had a PC BD drive out for a few months already?

a) It's read-only
b) It's $199 not $650

[DarrellS]

The $100 Cyberlink software thrown in might be the kicker except it won't install on Windows 2000.

[CubDukat]

It seems to me that by the time you're done with getting your system up to a point where you can actually play a Blu-Ray disc, you'll have spent the same amount you would have if you bought a standalone unit, and there's still no guarantee beyond that that it'll actually work.

Yeah, the drive's cheap enough, but then there's the monitor, then a video card that can pass HDCP, and you'll probably have to get Vista. And that's not even taking into account whether or not your processor can push those kind of pixels.

[rhegedus]

How is this 'news' when Pioneer have had a PC BD drive out for a few months already?

a) It's read-only
b) It's $199 not $650

As is the Pioneer....

[Ollie6431]

You can't rip a Blu-Ray disc title with a standalone player

You are right. I forgot about that. On the other hand, the $25 blank Bluray Disc is about the same price as an original movie (?).

[Ollie6431]

How is this 'news' when Pioneer have had a PC BD drive out for a few months already?

PriceGrabber shows price range for Pioneer BDC-2202: $280-300, still rather high compared to the $199 PLDS DH-4O1S

[ntscuser]

You can't rip a Blu-Ray disc title with a standalone player

You are right. I forgot about that. On the other hand, the $25 blank Bluray Disc is about the same price as an original movie (?).

Yes, but you don't have to write the backup to a BD blank. You can convert to h264 or whatever and store it on regular DL blank media

[oldandinthe way]

YAWN

Still too high. And I hate to say it but you can have a library of all of the titles available on Blu-Ray in a single binder. If you viewed all of the BD titles this player would still have cost you more than a dollar per viewing.

[[_chef_]]

You can't rip a Blu-Ray disc title with a standalone player

You are right. I forgot about that. On the other hand, the $25 blank Bluray Disc is about the same price as an original movie (?).

Yes, but you don't have to write the backup to a BD blank. You can convert to h264 or whatever and store it on regular DL blank media

The drive first have to prove that it works, the Pio did that already..........

[jagabo]

How is this 'news' when Pioneer have had a PC BD drive out for a few months already?

Yeah, if George Bush was assassinated tomorrow it wouldn't make the papers because presidents have been assassinated before.

[Nilfennasion]

Oh dear, someone had to drag politics into it.

I cannot remember when it was that I paid $199 for a DVD burner, but it would have been at least six years after the DVD-Video specification was released to market. That would have been around the time I showed up here, after much frustration with trying to figure out how to make a disc that I burned on the burner play back on a Toshiba player. Ah, those were the days.

This time in 2012 or so, we will all have thousands of burned Blu-Ray discs sitting in shelves behind us, typing crap at each other about how Windows We'reJustGoingToAdmitIt'sAPieceOfShit is good/bad/ugly, and doing nothing productive. So confident am I in this prediction that I am going to hang around this forum until then so I can say "told yas so".

[Ollie6431]

...

I cannot remember when it was that I paid $199 for a DVD burner, but it would have been at least six years after the DVD-Video specification was released to market. That would have been around the time I showed up here, after much frustration with trying to figure out how to make a disc that I burned on the burner play back on a Toshiba player. Ah, those were the days.

Agreed, deja vu again.
-Ancient history: tons of Hi-8 tapes and miniDV tapes but most people still watch recorded video on VHS tapes due to insanely-expensive DVD burners and DVD media, tons of coasters

-2007: a $100 DVD recorder can record DVD in any formats, freeware for editing DVD on computer.
HDV and AVCHD video show wonderful footage on HDTV (and downgraded to DVD for editing/burning!), insanely-expensive high-def (HD-DVD, Bluray) burners and media, editing softwares not always compatible with your video, waiting all night for encoding.

-2012: a $99 recorder can burn either a HD-DVD or a Bluray disc (and other formats), each blank disc costs 20 cents, great freewares to edit high-def video on PC. Video forums are busy with questions on editing video for Holographic Versatile Disc and news on Holographic players...

[clarkjm]

I have a Abit F1delity with a HDMI connector on the motherboard connected to my Samsung 61" HDTV and it works great in HD.

I will be buying a Sony PS3 because it has a built-in Blu-Ray player and you can also play games, check your e-mail and do all sorts of other things witout building a computer to do.

However though, if you ever use SlySofts AnyDVD/CloneDVD/CloneCD Suite, it supports ripping of HD DVD and Blu-Ray DVDs to ISO formatted files that you can then load using Daemon Tools and then watch via Media Player on your HDTV. So you would need a HD DVD or Blu-Ray player to do so.

John

[yoda313]

Can you do this now?? Is it avalaible?

I might just have found my next big purchase.

I have a nvidia 8400 that supports hdcp. HOWEVER it is dvi/vga without an hdmi port. My westinghouse hdtv has a vga input jack. Would this allow hdtv res out from the card?

I have a component breakout box that connects to my nvidia card and I can do 720p or 1080i (at the hdtv's 1366x768 resolution). Would this be viable?

I could see using my vista pc as a media center pc if this would mean I'd have full access to high def movies. What about 5.1? Would I be able to do analog output? I have a multichannel input on my sony amp. I could do that from my soundblast audigy. I do have a soundblaster usb adapter that has a fiberoptic output. Would this be better?

This sounds fantastic. A bluray player for half the price of a ps3? The only thing that would make this better is if it was a burner. Are you sure this isn't a bluray burner?

Where can you buy one????

[ViRaL1]

IIRC only HDMI and DVI support HDCP. Component and VGA do not.

Sorry.

[lordsmurf]

You can't rip a Blu-Ray disc title with a standalone player

You are right. I forgot about that. On the other hand, the $25 blank Bluray Disc is about the same price as an original movie (?).

Not this again. I got tired of seeing this with DVD burning tech. It's not there for all you pirates that want to copy DVD (now HD) releases. You should go buy the movie to begin with. Recording technology is developed for people who want to create and distribute their own content.

How is this 'news' when Pioneer have had a PC BD drive out for a few months already?

Yeah, if George Bush was assassinated tomorrow it wouldn't make the papers because presidents have been assassinated before.

A bit ridiculous, maybe?

[ntscuser]

You can't rip a Blu-Ray disc title with a standalone player

You are right. I forgot about that. On the other hand, the $25 blank Bluray Disc is about the same price as an original movie (?).

Not this again. I got tired of seeing this with DVD burning tech. It's not there for all you pirates that want to copy DVD (now HD) releases. You should go buy the movie to begin with. Recording technology is developed for people who want to create and distribute their own content.

What has making a backup copy got to do with piracy?
How is somebody supposed to make a backup if they haven't already bought the original movie?
What is the purpose of this site if we're not allowed to discuss ways of making backup copies?
All Ollie6341 complained about was the current high price of making a backup to BD.

[lordsmurf]

Purpose of the site = video. I don't see anywhere that it says "VH is for backing up movies".

Comparing the price of a copy to an original is generally a piracy reference.

Some of us follow new tech because we create content, and it gets annoying as hell to have to sift through dozens of posts of people bitching about how much it costs to make a copy versus buying the official release. I got tired of this with DVD, as did most other content creators.

It's no wonder MPAA thinks everybody is out to steal their product. They act the way they do because others act stupid in front of them (they do have the Internet, they can read this crap).

I don't see IT folks whining about the costs of backup media for servers. Or archivists for whatever they're doing. No. It's just the video folks, because we all -- wink, wink, nod, nod, smirk, smirk -- know what they're really saying.

I've certainly backed up valuable discs. I couldn't give two craps if the backup costs twice as much as the original. Those were only made in cases where another original would be impossible to find (or more costly the second time around). The only exception I can understand is multi-member households, where a stupid roommate or a young kid might tear it up and a cheap backup is imperative. But those are still a minority to this "backup" audience.

[Ollie6431]

Purpose of the site = video. I don't see anywhere that it says "VH is for backing up movies".

Agreed. Try searching in All Guides for "Using DVD Shrink 3.2 on movies and episode discs" and this will return nothing

[mats.hogberg]

Comparing the price of a copy to an original is generally a piracy reference.

Could also mean there's no use in backing up a HD-DVD or Blu Ray video disk, as you might as well buy 2 copies (and keep one in the safe).

/Mats

[lordsmurf]

It could, but it generally refers to the other thing. The word "generally" was chosen carefully.

There are definitely legitimate reasons for backing up discs, but the people who think recordables were ONLY MADE for copying are the ones that are an aggravation to these conversations about new technology or technology pricing.

The pricing aspect is also ridiculous. These people must have lived in caves when we all used VHS ($2-4 each) and S-VHS ($8-15 each) tapes. How is $2 for a DL DVD expensive? HD discs are agreeably expensive, but not prohibitively expensive. And the price may fall, but don't hold your breath on sub-$1 discs in a a few years. DVD was a fluke in the history of blank media pricing. I'm glad it's that cheap, but don't come to expect it.

[ntscuser]

It could, but it generally refers to the other thing. The word "generally" was chosen carefully.

There are definitely legitimate reasons for backing up discs, but the people who think recordables were ONLY MADE for copying are the ones that are an aggravation to these conversations about new technology or technology pricing.

The pricing aspect is also ridiculous. These people must have lived in caves when we all used VHS ($2-4 each) and S-VHS ($8-15 each) tapes. How is $2 for a DL DVD expensive? HD discs are agreeably expensive, but not prohibitively expensive. And the price may fall, but don't hold your breath on sub-$1 discs in a a few years. DVD was a fluke in the history of blank media pricing. I'm glad it's that cheap, but don't come to expect it.

How much do you think blank discs would cost if they were only bought and used for recording original material? How much do you think disc writers would cost if they were only bought and used for recording original material?

[lordsmurf]

Writers would be about the same.
The discs would make for an interesting study. I put forth no guess.

[ntscuser]

Writers would be about the same.

So you think that with no one except a tiny minority of original content authors buying DVD writers, no mass production and no economies of scale, they would cost about the same as they do now?

The discs would make for an interesting study. I put forth no guess.

I would estimate about the same as Blu-Ray discs do now, about $25 each.

[lordsmurf]

Baloney.

In 2001, blank discs cost $6 to $9 each, before 99% or more people evne knew you could burn DVDs. By the time all the copy-happy jackasses got into burning (about 2003-2004, thanks to copying software), discs were already down into the $1 to $2 range (same as a VHS tape, but with better quality).

Burners would still be owned, as the draw to create content and backup data is still quite strong. The pricing curve would have followed CD burning, which was also fairly nominal compared to DVD burning, with drives in the $50-$100 range (as they are right now). Some cheaper, some more. But that's the range.

Your estimates are not based on facts of the past. Mine are.

[Kayembee]

Lordsmurf wrote:
>Purpose of the site = video. I don't see anywhere that it says
>"VH is for backing up movies".

Not ANYWHERE? Let me fix that for you, then: VH is for
backing up movies. And other things, of course, but if you
failed to notice this backup stuff, I have to believe you weren't
looking very hard.

>Comparing the price of a copy to an original is generally a
>piracy reference.

Thank you for that unsupported opinion. I won't try to
imagine what arcane logic led you to it.

>I don't see IT folks whining about the costs of backup media for
>servers.

Gosh, maybe that's because most IT folks aren't spending
their own money?

>I've certainly backed up valuable discs. I couldn't give two
>craps if the backup costs twice as much as the original. Those
>were only made in cases where another original would be
>impossible to find (or more costly the second time around). The
>only exception I can understand is multi-member households, where
>a stupid roommate or a young kid might tear it up and a cheap
>backup is imperative. But those are still a minority to this
>"backup" audience.

Here's my partial list of legit reasons for backup:

1) Small children in the house (or other destructive
semi-sentients, like parrots).

2) You have hard-to-replace videos.

3) You live in a country where most so-called piracy
is legal.

4) You're so annoyed with the unskippable crap on
commercial DVDs that you find cleaned-up copies worth the
trouble.

5) You take movies with you when traveling, and need to
convert them to play on laptop, IPod, Zune, etc.

6) You put all your movies on a network server at home.
Few do this now, but in the next 5 years....? Prices are still
falling on big drives.

7) You find a movie in your collection that will no
longer play right, but which can be copied (I have).

Maybe the majority of the public pirates at least
occasionally, I really don't know. But I'm _sure_ a majority of
the public must occasionally need to know how to back up DVDs for
legitimate reasons, and I'm glad there are places like VH where
they can learn how to do it.

[ntscuser]

Baloney.

In 2001, blank discs cost $6 to $9 each, before 99% or more people evne knew you could burn DVDs. By the time all the copy-happy jackasses got into burning (about 2003-2004, thanks to copying software), discs were already down into the $1 to $2 range (same as a VHS tape, but with better quality).

Burners would still be owned, as the draw to create content and backup data is still quite strong. The pricing curve would have followed CD burning, which was also fairly nominal compared to DVD burning, with drives in the $50-$100 range (as they are right now). Some cheaper, some more. But that's the range.

Your estimates are not based on facts of the past. Mine are.

The first blank discs cost twice as much to produce ast they were sold for. The same is true for players and writers. That is standard industry practice. The manufacturers gambled on early adopters buying sufficient quantities to reduce costs through economies of scale. To quote your own figure of $6-$9, that means they originally cost $12-$18 dollars just to produce. Add a reasonable profit margin to that figure and my estimate of $25 is pretty close. I doubt if more than about 1% of early adopters used DVD writers to author original content.

During the period of 2001-2004 you mention it was standard practice for new PCs to be bundled with DVD-ROM but not with DVD writers. People like me came here to read how to copy our existing DVD titles to blank CD. We did it because we could, not for any ulterior motive. The results were sometimes laughable and as soon as they became affordable we all bought DVD writers and started over again. About fifty percent of my DVDs are now original content but if I had not learned how to copy commercial DVDs to CD from those early user guides I would not now be able to do it, or at least not nearly as well. I'm still learning tricks from ripping commercial discs such as how to make interactive menus and authoring original content has helped me rip commercial discs more efficiently than I used to.

If you have a problem with posters discussing how to make a copy of their own legally purchased discs in these pages I suggest you take it up with Admin.

[lordsmurf]

The first blanks did not cost twice as much to produce as the sell price. That's malarkey. Your information is bogus.

Learning how to copy a DVD teachers you ZERO about creating new content. There is no overlap whatsoever. Any moron can copy a disc with a one-click backup app, or create a DVD from downloaded warez with a one-click app, but creating content takes some minute amount of skill.

IT purchases fuel technology use, not Ma and Pa Kettle sitting at home with their "com-pew-tur". Those same people go home too, and buy much of the same things. Even old Ma and Pa will buy one when they decide it's time to make backups of the hard drive, or create a movie of baby Jimmy eating ice cream. They buy the same amount of burners, whether or not they burn 1 disc or 1,000 discs. This price is largely unaffected.

Kayembee, as a new poster with one post, your opinions are worthless. This site is not for pirates. It's for "video help". Before that, it was for "vcd help" and it has included information about capturing, etc. since day one. I suggest YOU look around.

The reason so many old-timers left this site (including many, many pros) is because people like you have come in here with all this ridiculous "how can I backup Netflix" attitude. I find myself visiting places like Wrigley, CreativeCow and Adobe Forums now, because this site has slowly become overrun by people like you. Even Doom9 has a more active capturing/editing community, go figure.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD recording was not made so you could copy movies. If you don't like the truth, that's just too bad. It was made for content producers. It gets disgusting how new technology is always discussed by the least common denominator here ("how can I copy my movies"). Utterly ridiculous.