Subtitle woes..explanation of basic principles needed

[dADDo]

I have captured, edited, burned heaps of VHS and made & published on-line many vids with little problem using;
WinDVD Creator (edit/burn)
Intervideo Win DVD (viewer)
WMM
WMP

but more recently got involved in capturing DVDs using,
DVD Decrypter
DVD Shrink 3.1
Win DVDCreator (edit/burning)

The topic "first time copying, encountering problems with subtitles" by poster Mrs Chippy was spot on and identical to my initial problems as well, but I still cannot grasp the basics and seem to be missing something fundimental in the process.

Why is it I can insert a commercial DVD with subtitles in my lappie and quite happly watch it in WMP or WinDVD viewer but when I decryptit/shrink/burn it to a new DVD disc (identical copy using defaults, no tricks) and then play that disc I cannot see the subtitles?

Yes, I've used DVDSubEdit and all the subtitles are there in the VOB files, so that is not an issue.

It's got me baffled so any advice would be appreciated.

[guns1inger]

The only time you will get a near identical copy is when you use DVD Decrypter in ISO mode. I say 'near identical' because once you rip it you have, at the very least, removed most (if not all) of the user restrictions.

However, once you process this through shrink, removing streams and otherwise re-authoring then you have shifted some way from having an identical copy.

First you need to clarify the following : are you talking about all DVDs with subtitles displaying the subtitles by default, or only those that do not have English as the primary audio track ?

There is a difference. Most players can be set to display subtitles in a given language for every disc on which that language appears, or no subtitles unless they are selected by the user. However, most DVDs that do not have an English audio track, or for which the primary audio track is not English, will have English subs as a forced stream - that is, one that switches on by default. (Note : I am using English as an example here because the OP is in Australia and English is the main language. The same holds true for any other location where the primary language on the disc does not match the primary language of the region)

I need to know which case you are having issues with to understand where the problems may lie. It could be to do with losing the fact that a given stream should be forced and no longer is, or it could be an issue with the language identification in the new IFO files.

[dADDo]

guns1linger......thnx for instant reply, great.

At this stage I'm only talking about one vid (my first!) and can say with certanty there is only one language subtitle - English, with orig in japanese. vid was manufatured specificall for Region 4/Australia (Eastern Eye - Kurasawa's "Sanjuro")

Anyway, I'll give informed reply shortly once I digest your points and have a play around with software.

[MysticE]

Will the original open with only DVDShrink (I would suggest using the last version, 3.2)?

[dADDo]

Okay....
Thnx for the input so far from guns1inger & MysticE but after today's efforts I seem to be regressing as I have aspect ratio problems but forget that for the moment, back to the core issue of SUBTITLES.

This is the current situation as clear as I can make it;

1. Take an off-the-shelf commercial DVD (japanese with english subtitles) put in stand alone bog standard DVD player and screen and it plays perfect picture/audio/subtitles.
2. Take same commercial vid and put in lappie drive and it plays perfect picture/audio/subtitles with WMP and Intervideo WinDVD as viewers.
3. Take same commercial vid and put in lappie drive and apply DVD Decrypter to it and away it goes, no problems.

NOTE to guns1inger - serious doubts at this stage as there are "trillions"of options, haven't tried ISO mode as suggested but in combination of what other options? Should it be only region 4 etc etc??)

4. Open DVD Shrink (select main title only) which shows 2 x japanese audio channels (AC3 5.1 & 2ch) so unclick 2 ch and keep 5.1ch, plus one sub-channel "english" which I leave selected and save to Backup.

(NOTE to MysticE - have downloaded and installed 3.2 but haven't used it yet - is this critical? new tweaks to solve problem?)

5. select files saved (from 4) and using WinDVD Creator edit/organise and burn to a new DVD-R disc.
6. seems sucessful (no different than dozens done similar) and take this burned DVD and insert in stand alone TV/DVD (used in 1) and I get picture (distorted!! but see above) & japanese audio but no english subtitles.
7. take same burned DVD and stick in lappie and play with WMP & Intervideo Win DVD as before and get picture(distorted) and japanese audio but no subtitles.
8. Stand alone dvd and lappie showng same results exactly, so no joy there.

As I said at the beginning, lets leave the distortion issue seprate for the moment, but I'm still mystified why the subtitles refuse to show? Comments?

[träskmannen]

Do the subtitles show if you play the files you got from step 4) in a software player on the laptop?

[politiken]

Enable "Logical remapping" in DVDShrink 3.2 !
"Logical remapping" is found in DVDShrink/Edit/Preferences/Output files. It should be "On"
if leaving out subs before the one selected and "Off" otherwise.
OR
It could be a simple software bug in your dvd player - Try change the horizontal position of the sub with only 1 pixel, using DVDSubEdit. ( - MPC has this bug! )

regards Pol

[dADDo]

Do the subtitles show if you play the files you got from step 4) in a software player on the laptop?

NO

[dADDo]

Enable "Logical remapping" in DVDShrink 3.2 !
"Logical remapping" is found in DVDShrink/Edit/Preferences/Output files. It should be "On"
if leaving out subs before the one selected and "Off" otherwise.
OR
It could be a simple software bug in your dvd player - Try change the horizontal position of the sub with only 1 pixel, using DVDSubEdit. ( - MPC has this bug! )
regards Pol

tnx...I'll sleep on it and try when refreshed overnight (I'm downunder)
This is why I love the Net - friends/people everywhere, anytime who a decade or so ago were simply were outside one's consciousness ...love it.

[MysticE]

use Shrink 3.2, set "Logical remapping" is found in DVDShrink/Edit/Preferences/Output files (as was mentioned). Reauthor and choose the main Title. In the left pane right click on the Title and choose 'Set default streams'. Under subpicture tick 'Display the following subpicture stream' and make sure English is shown. Hit Backup and choose Create ISO and burn it with DVDDecrypter.

The resultant DVD should now play with the subs already on, use your remote to turn them off.

I have no idea what this means:

5. select files saved (from 4) and using WinDVD Creator edit/organise and burn to a new DVD-R disc.

[politiken]

Sorry - The correct suggestion is as follows:

It could be a simple software bug in your dvd player - Try change the [s:252a1d2910]horizontal[/s:252a1d2910] vertical position of the sub with only 1 pixel, using DVDSubEdit. ( - MPC has this bug! )

Regards Pol

[dADDo]

[quote="MysticE"]use Shrink 3.2, set "Logical remapping" is found in DVDShrink/Edit/Preferences/Output files (as was mentioned). Reauthor and choose the main Title. In the left pane right click on the Title and choose 'Set default streams'. Under subpicture tick 'Display the following subpicture stream' and make sure English is shown. Hit Backup and choose Create ISO and burn it with DVDDecrypter.

The resultant DVD should now play with the subs already on, use your remote to turn them off.


BRILLIANT!!!! IT WORKS

MysticE, thank you so much, I nearly went mad trying to figure it out.

[dADDo]

Sorry - The correct suggestion is as follows:

It could be a simple software bug in your dvd player - Try change the [s:072554329a]horizontal[/s:072554329a] vertical position of the sub with only 1 pixel, using DVDSubEdit. ( - MPC has this bug! )

Pol, thnx for your help as well.
I will be doing this anyway as I want dropped the subtitles using DVDSubEdit so I would have an uncluttered image.

[dADDo]

Oh, well, off to the next round of trauma, converting the .ISO format to MPEG so I can play direct from harddrive!

next Forum.....>>>here I come

[politiken]

Hi - Always change the vertical sub position by multiply of 2, if using MPC to watch the DVD !

You can use DAEMON Tools to play the DVD from inside the ISO file - just mount the ISO file and load the VIDEO_TS.IFO file (from the mounted drive) in your favorite player.

Pol

[MysticE]

Oh, well, off to the next round of trauma, converting the .ISO format to MPEG so I can play direct from harddrive!

next Forum.....>>>here I come

http://www.hackszine.com/blog/archive/2007/07/play_ripped_dvds_with_vlc.html

[träskmannen]

IIRC you can drag and drop the ISO straight into VLC if you fancy using that as your player.

<Edit - if I had looked at MysticE's link I wouldn't have had to post this...>

[dADDo]

http://www.hackszine.com/blog/archive/2007/07/play_ripped_dvds_with_vlc.html

MysticEyou've done it again...thnx...looks a cool app.

NOTE - träskmannen and others...you must remember that you "guys" probably live and breath this stuff but to me is just a tool to allow me to do what I truely love, drawing, so sometimes people like me miss the nuances/technicalities particularly when we get excited and have sucess with what you tell us.

[träskmannen]

Sorry if the posts were incomprehensible or above your head, that is of course never the intention. On the other hand, if you don't understand the replies, just post back asking for an explanation.


I didn't read MysticE's suggestion to use VLC so I suggested it myself, that's all. Only difference was that MysticE's link suggested to open the ISO from the File - Open menu while I proposed to open VLC and drag-and-drop the ISO into it. Same result, it's just a matter of how you choose to work with your computer. It's no big deal.