Which camcorder for recitals and family events?

[nejmit]

I haven't bought a camcorder in 10 years and very ignorant to what is available now.
I would like one:
for low light situations - dance recitals.
to pick up singing at school concerts.
with image stabilization.
to also use for family and kids sporting events.

My budget is preferbly under $600.
I'm not sure whether to go using dvds or cards or tapes.
Can you use a dvd and a card (i.e. SD card) simultanously?
That way there's an instant copy and I can also put it on the computer.

I would appreciate any help possible, thank you.

[vhelp]

I would suggest a tape version. Mainly because you'll get the most out of
it, in terms of quality. There have been multiple disapointments when
using a cam equipted with SD or DVD ram, etc., because these *compress*
the video to a not-so-good mpeg format. Also, it is my opinion that
whenever you compress anything to mpeg (from video cams) the quality
(when brought to your HDD for further processing) usually entails various
types of artifacts, such as Pixelation or Macroblocks, etc.

So, I would go with the tape mechanism and follow the time-proven route
of DVCAM -> firewire cable -> pc -> HDD -to- DV.avi file, and then process
that *perfect* source to MPEG-2/dvd format.

-vhelp 4422

[edDV]

I'd recommend MiniDV in that price category. Sounds like your main need is low light performance. Consult Camcorderinfo.com reviews and pay attention to their comments on low light performance. Problem is most users demand small size which means smaller sensor and lens which results in poor low light performance. Other things being equal, sensor size influences low light capability.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.php

One standard def model that is an amazing currrent bargain is the 3CCD Panasonic PV-GS500 that gives very good low light plus bright light advantages of 3CCD color fidelity. At ~$680 it is selling 50% less than last year.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-PV-GS500-Camcorder-Review/Performance.htm

The GS-500 is targeted at everyman auto controls. A used PV-GS400 might be a better choice if you want pro controls. If you can spend more and want high def, check out the Canon HV20 (~$1000) but it won't do as well in low light.

[nejmit]

Thank you both. I am aiming more towards a miniDV now. I was told that the sony HC96 was nice and better lower light than most panasonics. I'm going to check out the website though (camcorderinfo) especially on the Panasonic. Thanks...

[garry]

For me it has become a dilemma.
I've sorted out the hard drive/tape /DVD issue and will go for the good old tape. (for storage purposes)

I know from research that EDdv has a HV20 so I would trust his judgement on the panasonic (which I need to look into as that brand didnt feature in my research of the higher end models).
I cant work out if I want higher end or average end.

What I really want is a camera where you do not hear the camera motor whirring away in quiet & peaceful shots. And the higher end models seem to have the same issues as all the rest. So maybe I could get away with the middle end of a purchase if the camera was "quiet".

School Plays /dance have alot of silence, so look into the motor noise issue as well as your low light criteria.

[edDV]

For me it has become a dilemma.
I've sorted out the hard drive/tape /DVD issue and will go for the good old tape. (for storage purposes)

I know from research that EDdv has a HV20 so I would trust his judgement on the panasonic (which I need to look into as that brand didnt feature in my research of the higher end models).
I cant work out if I want higher end or average end.

What I really want is a camera where you do not hear the camera motor whirring away in quiet & peaceful shots. And the higher end models seem to have the same issues as all the rest. So maybe I could get away with the middle end of a purchase if the camera was "quiet".

School Plays /dance have alot of silence, so look into the motor noise issue as well as your low light criteria.

The "perfect" SD camcorder for what you want to do is a Sony PD-150/170 (or the consumer version VX-2000/2100) but those are around $1500-2000 used but price is falling rapidly. These cameras are very good in low and bright light (including dark room and stage lighting). I mentioned the GS500 because you said $600 was your limit. The GS400 has better features but sells around $900 used. There are many internet reviews on these camcorders. I can't say from experience if motor noise is an issue with them. If you go back in history with camcorderinfo reviews, you will find the older 1/4" and 1/3" CCD cameras had better low light performance than the current 1/6" models.

A major "live performance" issue is manual audio control. Most consumer cams auto set audio and this leads to overgain (noise) in quiet passages and blasts followed by volume pumping when a loud sound happens. The GS400 and upper Sony's have manual audio level control. You set audio for the loudest condition and leave it be. I refuse to buy another camcorder that doesn't allow manual audio control.

[thecoalman]

School Plays /dance have alot of silence, so look into the motor noise issue as well as your low light criteria.

Some consumer cams may be better than others but the overall issue is where the microphone is mounted, typically in a consumer cam within the cam body. Once you get into the pro-sumer range they are mounted on top of the cam, you can further isolate it because the prosumer cams come with hot shoes to mount external microphones with noise dampening brackets... or just plug another external feed into the jack.

I own Canon GL2 , more than double the OP's budget but you won't be disappointed.

[lordsmurf]

If Canon still makes the ZR series, get one of those. Those are in your price range, but give excellent quality. The DiGiC II processor works well, as good as many consumer 3-CCD cameras.

[dun4cheap]

The Canon HV20 which does HD and DV is on sale at Frys for $799. I know its a bit more then the $600 but this will give you HD and in the business for a while. Plus this camera performs well in low light and action sports.

[zoobie]

definitely tape
can't beat the storage for $2 a whole hour, either

[TheFamilyMan]

We bought a sony HC-96 about two years ago when it first came out. It's still working fine; it has survived a few major vacations. We too are family event point and shooters, and at the time this seemed the best fit for your same reasons. I've been very happy with its performance overall, though the low-light is decent (some noise) but not perfect. It's mics (stereo) do pick up a little motor noise; I don't hear it unless I really turn up the volume or listen with headphones. The optical stablization works very well. The only problem we've had was when a defective tape gunked it up so its tape "health" autosensing went bonkers until it got cleaned up. I wish that 3CCD pany PV-GS500 deal was available when we got this. I really wanted a 3CCD but at the time for our budget, the performance we needed just was not there with the 3CCD models. Good Luck!

[edDV]

The Canon HV20 which does HD and DV is on sale at Frys for $799. I know its a bit more then the $600 but this will give you HD and in the business for a while. Plus this camera performs well in low light and action sports.

Wow, that is a great price for the HV20!

Only problem with that is low light performance @29.97FPS. The HV20 can be tweaked with longer exposure and 24fps to improve low light performance but that won't work with high motion dance. The only answer would be bright lighting. Sadly most other HDV cams are worse in low light than the HV20.

Unless you plan to light your set, stay with a good low light DV cam. The Canon GL2 and larger CCD Z series are also contenders.

[zoobie]

saw an hc5 for $600 already ha ha

[edDV]

saw an hc5 for $600 already ha ha

Looks like consumer electronics are in price free fall !!!!

[dun4cheap]

The HV20 just got even better. Its at Costco again this time for $799. That means you get a two year warranty as well.


http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=11212694&whse=BC&topnav=&cat=21253&b=1&lang=en-US

[fairytale00]

sony HC-96 is quite a good choice .

[pettereh]

If good audio is an issue, an exteral videomic is essential.
I bought a Rode Videomic which is rather inexpensive,
but which gives excellent sound compared to internal mics.
You will need a camera with an external mic connector.
I am using a Panasonic GS180 which serves me very well for the purpose.