Which one should I use?

[deacea]

I know there are plenty forums that I read before I posted but I still need a little help. I need a capture device that shows great quality at a resolution of 720 480, and can do both direct mpeg2 compression and or bypass that if I need to in order to record raw footage uncompressed. My video source is excellent, but i want to make sure that have options for capture that can go both ways. I here alot of good things about Canopus.... trying to do $400 and under i f possible.

[redwudz]

Canopus will probably give you a very good quality video file. And DV is very easy to edit. But you would need to use a software encoder to MPEG to preserve the quality. And that takes time. But you have control over the MPEG quality.

Or you could use a hardware capture device, like one of the Hauppauge cards that does a direct conversion to MPEG. The advantage is no encoding time to get to a MPEG format. The disadvantage is harder editing and little or no control over the MPEG quality.

Software MPEG-2 conversions 'on the fly' just don't have the capability of high quality MPEG-2 encoding. IMO. That would take a extreme amount of computer power. I'm thinking of 2 pass VBR MPEG-2 encoding.

I don't know of a device that can do both easily, high quality AVI type format and MPEG hardware conversion.

More important at times is your source quality. If it were VHS, you probably wouldn't see much difference between the two final products. A very high quality source, I would prefer the DV route. JMO.

[thecoalman]

Good question but unfortunately there is none that I'm aware of. I've wondered why the Hauupage cards haven't offered uncompressed, they'd only have to bypass the encoder...

Anyhow going direct to MPEG isn't my cup of tea but if you insist :P ... The hauppage cards can be set to capture very high bitrate MPEG as I frames only which will give you similar capabilties as a DV-AVI.

You can convert on the fly using software with the Canopus but as suggested by redwudz results will vary. If your tapes are in excellent condition and you expect to convert most of them directly to MPEG it's not a very good solution for you. on a final note DV-AVI that the canpus produces is compressed although its a very light compression compared to that of MPEG.

[jman98]

Hauppauge cards usually do hardware encoding and very very few of the standard hardware encoding chips support AVI capture. If you really must do this (I have the Hauppauge PVR-350, an excelent card, and I never care about doing this), you might look into the Hauppauge PVR-150. It can do AVI capture, but I don't know much about it and I must warn you that this card sometimes gives people a lot of problems. It will either work flawlessly for you immediately after installing it or you will be one of the unlucky ones who will curse the day you bought the card. The PVR-250/350 can't do AVI capture, but they just work for everybody who installs them.

I guess if you can't live without AVI capture (I think it's horribly overrated and totally unnecessary, but I'll spare you my long explanation as to why I think that) and you can afford it, the Canopus cards are considered by all to be excellent. There's just very very expensive, so few of us have them.

[deacea]

no I insist, I'm very much open to any opinon or veiw. yah, the pvr 150 also looks good but i have a 8 core dell 690 and the install has to be smooth sailing if i do get it. of course my final output is going to dvd for others to watch, but i just thought the less times i compress, the better things would look. I just want the card that is going to make my dvds look the best at the end of the day.

[edDV]

no I insist, I'm very much open to any opinon or veiw. yah, the pvr 150 also looks good but i have a 8 core dell 690 and the install has to be smooth sailing if i do get it. of course my final output is going to dvd for others to watch, but i just thought the less times i compress, the better things would look. I just want the card that is going to make my dvds look the best at the end of the day.

Are you just dubbing or will you be doing extensive editing? For the latter DV format or fully uncompressed is the way to go.

If you are just dubbing, the two step process gets highest quality. Capture to DV or uncompressed in real time then use a quality non-real time MPeg encoder. An 8-core will encode each pass in much less than real time.

If time is money and you want to do it all in one real time pass to MPeg2, various hardware MPeg2 encoders exist starting with Hauppague at the bottom and moving up through the pro gear. Your 8-core CPU allows the software option to encode real time from an uncompressed or DV capture. The Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder is most often used by the big boys for real time software encoding.
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/consumer-products-4/mpeg-2/information.html

[thecoalman]

but i just thought the less times i compress, the better things would look.

Correct you should only compress to MPEG once if possible. Compression artifacts are a tricky thing, for example if you have 8000kbps MPEG and re-compress it numerous times but haven't changed any of the video the artifacts will be minimal. On the other hand re-compressing with changed values to the bitrate and adding filters will produce more artifacts as opposed to doing the same operation on less compressed DV-AVI. You can avoid all that using software that only re-encodes where necessary but adding a filter to the entire length of video requires that it all be re-compressed.

DV-AVI can be re-compressed numerous times without any significant affect to the quality of the video.

I just want the card that is going to make my dvds look the best at the end of the day.

Again if you want to go directly to MPEG the Hauppage are great cards from the reviews I have read. The other option is just get a DVD recorder, rip the disc to your HDD for authoring DVD's with menus.

If you want to leave all the options on the table the Canopus is the better choice.

You won't be disappointed with either choice as far as quality goes. You need to decide what your going to do with the video after you capture it, if its going directly to DVD then then the only benefit of the Canopus is if you archive the DV-AVI (which is going to cost a lot) for future use.

[edDV]

DV format archive to tape only costs ~$2.50/hr but the 1x transfer is a time killer. Writable BD DVDR will allow just under 2 hrs of DV format per layer for $20 per blank. Tape looks like the more economical choice for archive and is probably more reliable.

[lordsmurf]

It seems everybody has forgotten ATI AIW Radeon 7000-9000 series AGP cards? Those do both uncompressed/compressed AVI and hardware-assisted MPEG in excellent quality.

The only catch here is you'll buy it used off eBay, and you'll need an AGP slot in the computer, not the newer PCI express slot. But you won't find a better card!

[thecoalman]

DV format archive to tape only costs ~$2.50/hr but the 1x transfer is a time killer. Writable BD DVDR will allow just under 2 hrs of DV format per layer for $20 per blank. Tape looks like the more economical choice for archive and is probably more reliable.

Well my idea of archiving and I'm sure you could agree is having two copies, one on tape and one HDD if you're going thr DV-AVi route. Hence the reason for statement that it can get expensive. I wouldn't consider making archives on DVD for any reason.

[thecoalman]

It seems everybody has forgotten ATI AIW Radeon 7000-9000 series AGP cards? Those do both uncompressed/compressed AVI and hardware-assisted MPEG in excellent quality!

Just my opion but too many headaches can crop up with the ATI and other cards like it that pass of the audio to the soundcard among other things, if you get them to work you're in business. Troubles and you're in for the long haul of trying to get it to work.

Full hardware encoding of both audio and video on a single device is the route to take. The Canopus is flawless where audio sync is concerned.

[tipstir]

Yeah the hardware compression is better than software compression. One would have to have ideal system to get away with just software compression with video recording.

[deacea]

well, from the looks of things, i might as well get the canopus card, the 55 one. ati sounded good spec wise but i already have a ati video card itself and i can honeslty say that you never know what your gonna get with that thing( could just be me though, so dont gain up on me any ati lovers).lol. my last choice would have been blackmagic's hdmi card, but it only does hdmi limiting it for use with other devices.
by the way... im using my system this weekend to do webcasting and recording video at the same time. piece of cake so far surprisingly!

[classfour]

I actually have two PVR-150s: The newer one (Model 1042 MCE) records with a cleaner look than the older one in a PVR that I built about a year ago (Low Profile PVR-150). The settings are pretty much the same, the difference has to be in the machines, and the cards have some obvious differences. The LP card lacks the inputs found on the MCE card.

I have ran two captures on the MCE card - both have excellent quality

Have good luck with the ATI.

I went with Hauppauge because of the built in encoder.

I just couldn't deal with a processor intensive card.

[lordsmurf]

Yeah the hardware compression is better than software compression. One would have to have ideal system to get away with just software compression with video recording.

ATI is not software compression. It's a hybrid of hardware-assisted encoding using proprietary software for the other end. It's not like an Aver card or some other POS using cheapware/crapware/freeware.

It can be a hassle to set up, yes, but many happy users exist. For years now.

[deacea]

lastly, did any have great results with either the blackmagic hdmi cards or osprey cards? so far im still baised to the canopus. i would buy all the cards and test them out, its just all the stores have a 15% restock fee or dont let you return pci cards like that.

[edDV]

You say your video source is "excellent". What is it?

If your video is studio quality, BlackMagic Intensity uncompressed capture may have some benefit. If you are talking consumer video standards don't bother.

[deacea]

i think my sources are pretty decent. my hdmi sources are prosumer cameras and a few other hdmi sources for doing video demos later on. I'm just hear learning from the pro's that's how you become better at what you do. by the way, one of my cameras is the hvx200 by panasonic and the cards for one of those things cost almost as much as my computer so I was trying some work arounds for that.

[edDV]

i think my sources are pretty decent. my hdmi sources are prosumer cameras and a few other hdmi sources for doing video demos later on. I'm just hear learning from the pro's that's how you become better at what you do. by the way, one of my cameras is the hvx200 by panasonic and the cards for one of those things cost almost as much as my computer so I was trying some work arounds for that.

The HVX-200 captures SD or HD direct to the P2 flash card or over IEEE-1394 to a computer or to a Firestore type hard drive. It will also record DV to normal tape.
http://www.videoguys.com/FireStore.html

There is no need for a special computer capture device. IEEE-1394 or USB2 can be used to transfer the P2 or hard drive file. The HVX-200 also has analog component output for monitoring but where possible you should use the digital outputs to the computer.

Consumer DV and HDV camcorders use IEEE-1394.
Some consumer HDV camcorders are starting to add HDMI primarily as a monitor interface.
Prosumer camcorders usually use IEEE-1394 or sometimes USB2.
Pro Camcorders usually connect over serial digital interface (SDI) or in some cases a network connection.

[thecoalman]

nvm

[deacea]

Canopus is the way to go, as far as ease of use and is pretty decent in transfering. Nothing super breath taking but does what its suppose to do very well