DVD Rebuilder: No PAL to NTSC option? Why?

[nick13]

If DVD Rebuilder uses CCE to re-encode everything on the disk, why can't it instruct CCE to do it in diferent format????

If I have PAL DVD why can't I end up with NTSC DVD? If it encodes anyway - why not to encode it into other regional system? What's the big deal? CCE doesn't care what system you're using.

I don't get it...

[redwudz]

It's because even the conversion of a MPEG from PAL>NTSC is fairly complex: https://www.videohelp.com/convert#4;41 The framerates, timings, framesizes are all different.

Doing that with a whole DVD, including menus, subtitles, languages, video and audio is something most of us don't even want to attempt. To get a smooth conversion with proper audio/video sync is very complex and time consuming.

Most times, if you want a software conversion, you can just extract out the MPEG, use one of the the above guides for a format change, then re-author. But you will lose all the rest of the menus, etc., from the original DVD.

Or use a software or hardware player that can playback either format properly and avoid conversions entirely.

[nick13]

Thanks mate. Still I'm wondering whether s/w to convert the whole DVD exist? Does any one know?

I know people do conversion of "main title" only. I use TMPGEnc and XtoDVD encoders for that, they are great!

But what about the whole disc? Menus, extras, etc..? Is it achieavable?

[redwudz]

Yes, it's achievable, but can be extremely time consuming and complex.

AFAIK, there's no single software program to convert a full DVD, menus, subs, languages, etc., and keep the exact same structure. But you should be able to do it pieces and reassemble it all. It's been discussed before in our forums. I'll see if I can find some of the threads, or other members may know of them. Here's one:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic319857.html?highlight=pal%20ntsc%20menu%20conversion

It would be a interesting exercise, but not really practical. You could use a NTSC/PAL DVD player to view the PAL DVD and achieve the same purpose, and at a much higher quality.

[jman98]

Thanks mate. Still I'm wondering whether s/w to convert the whole DVD exist? Does any one know?

I know people do conversion of "main title" only. I use TMPGEnc and XtoDVD encoders for that, they are great!

But what about the whole disc? Menus, extras, etc..? Is it achieavable?

Do you enjoy beating your head against a wall? Are you a masochist? Only masochists do this. If it's something you only need to do 1 or at most 2 times and then never again, OK, maybe it is worth it. If you have an ongoing need for this conversion, it's really better to just buy a DVD player that can convert between PAL and NTSC. Yes you can do it and you've been provided links on how. It's a lot of work and most of us think it's not worth it, but if your time is worthless to you and you don't mind to spend many many hours converting menus, audio, etc. and then reassembling it into a final DVD product, then yes, it CAN be done. It's one of those things where if you have to ask how to do it here, it's not going to be very easy for you. I'd advise blocking out an entire weekend for your first one.

Finally, you should understand that format conversion has many negatives - the audio probably won't sound right (unless you really know what you are doing and have access to professional type tools, you'll have to slow down the audio to get from PAL to NTSC, but with pro tools it is possible to do tricky things and keep the pitch the same even though the length of the audio has changed), you may possibly notice some motion artifacts if your PAL source is interlaced, you may have to manually reposition subtitles for NTSC, and on an on.

[nick13]

<<Do you enjoy beating your head against a wall? Are you a masochist? Only masochists do this. If it's something you only need to do 1 or at most 2 times and then never again, OK, maybe it is worth it. If you have an ongoing need for this conversion, it's really better to just buy a DVD player that can convert between PAL and NTSC. Yes you can do it and you've been provided links on how. It's a lot of work and most of us think it's not worth it, but if your time is worthless to you and you don't mind to spend many many hours converting menus, audio, etc. and then reassembling it into a final DVD product, then yes, it CAN be done. It's one of those things where if you have to ask how to do it here, it's not going to be very easy for you. I'd advise blocking out an entire weekend for your first one.

Finally, you should understand that format conversion has many negatives - the audio probably won't sound right (unless you really know what you are doing and have access to professional type tools, you'll have to slow down the audio to get from PAL to NTSC, but with pro tools it is possible to do tricky things and keep the pitch the same even though the length of the audio has changed), you may possibly notice some motion artifacts if your PAL source is interlaced, you may have to manually reposition subtitles for NTSC, and on an on.>>

Dude, let me explain you how much you're wrong and confuse.

1) You said that MPEG PAL to NTSC re-encoding is nearly impossible to complete without hours and hours of work and great loss of quality. WRONG! VSO XtoDVD does !EXCELLENT! job converting PAL DVD to NTSC DVD in 35 minutes! And it converts all extras, subs, languages and menus - BUT it won't author them back into structure as it was in the original DVD. Otherwise it's nearly perfect tool! It does 3:2 pulldown, so no audio/video sync problems and frame rate issues ether. So does TMPGEnc and Canopus Procoder and so on...

If it only could make a "snap" of the original structure before converting, and then author it back after conversion - it would be the best peace of s/w ever. They could easily implement this feature if they want it, but they obviously don't care about it, so it's not there... Maybe it's cost/efficiency issue, who knows. (Personally, I think there is a problem to create working "buttons" on re-encoded menu. That could be difficult and require more expensive software in order to achieve it).

Technically it is very possible, just lack of interested parties in this case killed the issue. No one really cares to make it, that's why s/w like this doesn't exist.

Also, I don't think you even understood my question in the forum. I asked whether "one click" s/w to do all that exist or not. That's all. And if you read first line of your response, you'll see how much you're confused. But thanks for your time anyway.

[manono]

WRONG! VSO XtoDVD does !EXCELLENT! job converting PAL DVD to NTSC DVD

No one ever said just converting the video was so hard, although there are plenty of people on their own and software programs that make a botch of the job . Without proof, I'm not sure I'd believe this software about which you're raving can do such a good job. Is that the old ConvertX2DVD? Costs money, doesn't it? And I have heard maybe it can do the movie alone properly. Do you have a small 10 second sample you'd like to upload somewhere for us to have a look?

BUT it won't author them back into structure as it was in the original DVD.

Gee, I wonder why?

If it only could make a "snap" of the original structure before converting, and then author it back after conversion - it would be the best peace of s/w ever.

Don't you understand that's one of the hard parts; putting the pieces back together again?

They could easily implement this feature if they want it,

No, not so easy. If it were, wouldn't you be doing it, instead of coming here acting surprised that DVD-RB doesn't do it?

Personally, I think there is a problem to create working "buttons" on re-encoded menu. That could be difficult and require more expensive software in order to achieve it).

Resizing menu subpics and realigning the buttons are a couple of the more difficult things you have to do, true. I've done the complete job 4 times now; menus, subs, video, audio, everything. It's a lot of work, but after you've done it a few times it just becomes tedious, and no longer the challenge it was the first couple of times. And you use a whole lot of different software programs. And it can be done, and done very well, just using freeware.

[redwudz]

Just to continue, I'm sure there is a demand for a one click program to convert a complete PAL DVD to a a NTSC DVD. But no one has yet has tried to undertake the massive amount of programming that 'might' make it possible, AFAIK.

By now you should realize what all this entails, so I'm not going to discourage you.

But if you are interested, purely as an exercise, give the separate parts conversions a try. We can help you with the separate steps. Many of them are already covered. As you mention, you can convert the main movie with a bit of work and get a creditable MPEG copy in NTSC format. The menus and the rest can also be duplicated and made NTSC compatible. But it takes quite a suite of programs to do this and a fair understanding of the DVD format, both PAL and NTSC, along with knowledge about encoding, graphics, subtitles, menus and authoring. Most all of it can be done with freeware, so cost is not a big problem.

I personally think it would be an interesting project and will likely teach you quite a bit in the process, if you have the time and energy to complete it.

Good luck.

[nick13]

PostPosted: Oct 27, 2007 23:43
Just to continue, I'm sure there is a demand for a one click program to convert a complete PAL DVD to a a NTSC DVD. But no one has yet has tried to undertake the massive amount of programming that 'might' make it possible, AFAIK.

By now you should realize what all this entails, so I'm not going to discourage you.

But if you are interested, purely as an exercise, give the separate parts conversions a try. We can help you with the separate steps. Many of them are already covered. As you mention, you can convert the main movie with a bit of work and get a creditable MPEG copy in NTSC format. The menus and the rest can also be duplicated and made NTSC compatible. But it takes quite a suite of programs to do this and a fair understanding of the DVD format, both PAL and NTSC, along with knowledge about encoding, graphics, subtitles, menus and authoring. Most all of it can be done with freeware, so cost is not a big problem.

I personally think it would be an interesting project and will likely teach you quite a bit in the process, if you have the time and energy to complete it.

Thanks Redwudz, I will try...

I guess it will be easier for me to re-encode all parts including menu, then stick them to Adobe Encore and "revitalize" all buttons, then reroute them to the appropriate clip. Rip the subs and languages from the disc, then add them to Encore as well.

And so on... Takes for ever.

Frankly I hoped that "one click" solution do exist, but I was wrong. It sucks.

Thanks for your help man.

[evansataz]

This has been an long battle for me to find a way to preserve the entire DVD and convert PAL to NTSC and i think i have Found a way!!

DVD Rebuilder Pro 1.28.2
DVDPatcher 1.06

Just those 2 tools with certain settings and i believe i have found an easy way to convert PAL to NTSC and preserve the ENTIRE DVD!!

Wish me luck and ill keep you posted after i have burned and tested the Rebuilt DVD

[manono]

Just those 2 tools with certain settings and i believe i have found an easy way to convert PAL to NTSC and preserve the ENTIRE DVD!!

Not a chance.

[Noahtuck]

Just those 2 tools with certain settings and i believe i have found an easy way to convert PAL to NTSC and preserve the ENTIRE DVD!!

Not a chance.

LMAO!!!

Ya gotta love it eh....

[evansataz]

Just those 2 tools with certain settings and i believe i have found an easy way to convert PAL to NTSC and preserve the ENTIRE DVD!!

Not a chance.

LMAO!!!

Ya gotta love it eh....

Im glad this post is being viewed and hope to prove you wrong Mr. Not a chance

[ron spencer]

no....not a chance, unless you have a player that will play it...that patcher trick rarely works...you need to do a ton of other stuff

[Noahtuck]

Im glad this post is being viewed and hope to prove you wrong Mr. Not a chance

You obviously do not even know what those tools actually do, especially DVDPatcher.


You may as well just use this method, PAL / NTSC DVD Conversion (patch method)

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/166266-PAL-NTSC-DVD-Conversion-%28patch-method%29?h...light=pal+ntsc
You will NOT convert anything, you just fool players into thinking it is something other than it is, and it does not work on all players/tv's.

It's funny how the newbies come on and think they have it all figured out

[evansataz]

Im glad this post is being viewed and hope to prove you wrong Mr. Not a chance

You obviously do not even know what those tools actually do, especially DVDPatcher.


You may as well just use this method, PAL / NTSC DVD Conversion (patch method)

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/166266-PAL-NTSC-DVD-Conversion-%28patch-method%29?h...light=pal+ntsc
You will NOT convert anything, you just fool players into thinking it is something other than it is, and it does not work on all players/tv's.

It's funny how the newbies come on and think they have it all figured out

As i originally stated in my post, it has been a long battle with Pal to NTSC, so you know where you can stick your newbie comment. i am doing much more than just patching but didn't get into detail until i can confirm it works. What is funny is how you have interest in how to convert and noone has found a way to do it easily and preserve the original DVD menu and extras, yet you are quick to call someone a newbie. Your negative replies only make you look bad

[Noahtuck]

I have done PAL to NTSC conversions with full menus, extras, subs, ect. years ago.
I know how to do it, and do it correctly.

It takes quite a bit of time and several different tools.

There is no easy way to do it correctly or with those tools.

I know what the tools you listed do.

Your comments just prove my point.

[evansataz]

I can confirm that my method on Converting PAL to NTSC and it works. Just need to do one last thing and fix the placement of the menu buttons. They are slightly offset. As for Noahfuck and manono, Who is the newbie now? you people with your negative attitude make me want to just forget about posting on this threat and forum and not share what i have found to work. People like you don't deserve to get help and have nothing to offer but negative comments.

PgcEdit and i am complete.

Too bad noone was actually interested on what i was doing and was just quick to say it wouldn't work.


You all were wrong and were of no help.

My method for a dual-layer DVD took me 30mins of my time and about 2hrs for my pc to do the work needed.

You people with your know it all attitude can SUCK IT!!!

[jagabo]

My method for a dual-layer DVD took me 30mins of my time and about 2hrs for my pc to do the work needed.

I don't think that constitutes "an easy way". But why don't you post short before and after samples of the MPEG 2 video. You can use DgIndex to mark a short section of a VOB and export it as an M2V file. Post samples with smooth motion. Like a medium speed panning shot.

[ron spencer]

suck what?

Another useless post....

[redwudz]

evansataz, those type of abusive comments about other posters will get you a warning card or a ban. Keep it civil.

Moderator redwudz

[r0lZ]

PgcEdit and i am complete.

I don't want to participate in this discussion, as honestly I don't know if the DVDRB method works well, but it is a fact that converting a DVD is possible. I just wanted to say that it is right that one thing that cannot currently be made automatically is the fix of the menu button coordinates. It's why I have added a way to do that semi-automatically in PgcEdit. Use File -> Menu Buttons & BOVs -> Export and Convert PAL <-> NTSC. It will save all buttons of the DVD in a folder, and convert automatically their positions from NTSC to PAL or vice versa, on the fly. You can then import the buttons in the converted DVD and have them at the right position immediately.

Please report if your method works as expected, and if the PgcEdit trick to convert the buttons is OK. I've added that function at the demand of someone, but I have never tested it in real circumstances. Thanks in advance...

[manono]

r0lZ, no one's arguing that it can't be done, only that it can't be done using DVD-RB and DVD Patcher only, which is what he first proposed. Heck, using DVD-RB you can't even change the framerate to do a simple IVTC. You get back exactly what the source is like, just with a smaller size. So, using DVD-RB how will you be able to change from a PAL to NTSC framerate, in addition to changing the resolution as well? Now that he's added PGCEdit into the mix, he can get closer, but still no cigar, not if using DVD-RB. It can't resize the menu backgrounds, It can't resize the subpics. And again, if using DVD Patcher is how he plans to do it, then he hasn't created any NTSC menus, as you well know. And if DVD Patcher is being used to trick the players into believing he's done the job then, as jagabo requested, show some samples.

[r0lZ]

I fully agree, but as I said, I don't want to participate in this discussion. I don't see the point in converting a DVD (at least from NTSC to PAL), as here in Europe, almost all players are able to play NTSC material without problem.

But since there are still some guys trying to do it, I have added the conversion of the buttons positions in PgcEdit, in the hope that it will be useful. I'm just interested in knowing if that part of the process works well. As you can imagine, I haven't received a lot of feedback on that point.

Anyway, thanks for the precisions.

[evansataz]

To finish what i have started, i found i was able to use these tools to convert pal dvd to ntsc dvd and keep everything as it was on original (movie,extras,menu).

DVD Rebuilder Pro 1.28.2 - Used to "Resize" to NTSC standards using the built in Filter Editor feature (AviSynth)
DVDPatcher 1.06 - Used to patch the M2V files to NTSC standards
IfoEdit 0.971 - Used to patch the rebuilt dvd to ntsc
PgcEdit 9.3 - Used to re-allign the menu buttons to NTSC

Tested on a dvd player i have that will not play pal dvds and the patcher only method wouldnt work.

When i 1st posted, i knew it was premature and was still a work in progress. I have completed 2 pal > ntsc conversion and they work. Although one step using this method may be a bit tedious, it is really simple to do and take very little of your time. Most of the time spent is the computer doing the encoding on the 2nd part of DVD Rebuilder. The key part to my original pst is that i was trying to say that dvd rebuilder will actually re-encode your video if you just use the built in Filter Editor feature.

Thank you for your comments and good luck on your conversions

[manono]

DVDPatcher 1.06 - Used to patch the M2V files to NTSC standards

Using DVD Patcher does not convert an M2V from PAL to NTSC. You wasted your time. The fact that it now plays on your player where patching only didn't means nothing.

Thank you for your comments and good luck on your conversions

Good luck with your ersatz conversions. Some of the rest of us, if we do them at all, will continue to do them the right way.

[jagabo]

Using DVD Patcher does not convert an M2V from PAL to NTSC.

What does DVD Patcher do? Does it apply 3:2:3:2:2 pulldown flags? If not, he could use DgPulldown to do so -- since he's already resized the frame.

Interlaced video will be another problem.

[manono]

What does DVD Patcher do?

It just patches a header that says it's 29.97fps. No pulldown. It's still really 25fps. He claims to have resized the video by editing the DVD-RB AviSynth scripts. What he doesn't claim is to have done anything at all to the menus besides adjusting the menu buttons. They're still 720x576, the background video and the subpics (although the DVD-RB pro version can reencode the background video, so maybe he resized tham as well), and they're 25fps, although he may have patched them also. Converting the video is easy and you don't need DVD-RB for the job. In fact, it just slows you down. It's the menus that are a bitch.

[evansataz]

DVD Rebuilder takes care of resize, and deinterlace. dvd patcher then makes all the videos proper 720x480 29.97fps, then rebuild and use pgcedit and ifo edit to fix the buttons and ifo's. the dvd's i have converted this way , work where as just patching never worked on a player i use for testing purposes.

DVD Patcher can patch entire file, and DVD Rebuilder can deinterlace and resize and change fps.

DVD Rebuilder can do a lot with Avisynth.


So if it works for me where other methods (just patching) didn't work, i don't see what i am doing wrong or wasting time doing.


Anyone got an easier or quicker way to convert pal to ntsc that would be nice to see.

[manono]

Post a sample of both the video and a menu. Short pieces of about 10 seconds each, with steady movement will be plenty.

dvd patcher then makes all the videos proper 720x480 29.97fps

You have no idea what you're saying. Either you're deluding yourself or you're outright lying. I prefer to think you're delusional.

DVD Rebuilder can deinterlace and resize and change fps.

DVD-RB can not change the framerate.