The effect of whatever settings were running on the HDTV I watched was that all the smoke and mirrors were gone, and the presence of the camera was so strong it robbed the stories of that emotional pull.
An author should not write fictional prose in such a way that, either subtely or blatantly, causes the reader to be reminded of his presense in the lines of the story, his creating of the world made obvious. The world is meant to have its own life. If the 'voice' of the author is too conspicuous the story loses most of its power to asborb the reader and weave its magic.
The HD features causing the reaction in me and others posting here is the cinematic equivalent of the author leaving his clumsy fingerprints all over a story.
However, yes I agree its a subjective issue. One mans meat is anothers poison.
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Such a weird thread.
I think some of our newer members persist in confusing motion interpolation with frame repeats. I confess I've never seen really satisfactory motion interpolation. It's very contingent on source material, and goes from so-so to unbearable. On my Philips LCD, at its worst it can exhibit a sort of flickering edge effect on highly contrasted sharp edges. Like the faint wavery tip of a flame. So turn it off already, I have.
Now that has nothing at all to do with frame repeats or anything else in HDTVs. I'm pleased that with 120 Hz I don't have to see judder, and color is much improved over SD NTSC (so long as the HDTV is reasonably well calibrated). Like other long time members here have said, I want the best picture possible, and for the home theater buff, HDTV is a great improvement over the old, small CRTs.
As to an enhanced, more realistic picture detracting from the "film experience", whatever that is, well, I don't get it. Not at all. Hey, if the set is unconvincing (at times) or the lighting poor, I say those guys will just have to sharpen up and do a better job. But that's far from the rule anyway.Pull! Bang! Darn!
It's a nonsense meaningless term.
George Carlin would have fun with stuff like this. I can just imagine him now:
"What the hell is a 'film experience'? When I go to the bathroom, do I have a 'toilet experience'?"
"You watch a movie. You take a shit. You don't have an 'experience'!"
You know, on further reflection I'll concede just a tiny bit on the subject of being distracted from the story.
When I first got my copy of the restored Blu-Ray of "The Searchers", well, I confess I paid little attention (on the first play) to anything but that gorgeous VistaVision camera work. (I knew the plot quite well anyway). The depth and clarity are just astounding. Monument Valley in VistaVision...jaw-dropping. The restorers did a wonderful job.
But hey, that's also part of the "film experience". Like being in the movie theater in the front row, only better.
Last edited by fritzi93; 1st Sep 2011 at 23:30.Pull! Bang! Darn!
The HDTV issues being discussed are motion judder and frame interpolation.
2:3 motion judder is only seen on classic NTSC CRT TV sets and so called "60 Hz" HDTV models. It is not seen in theater projection, PAL TV sets or "120 Hz" HDTV models.
Frame interpolation from 24p to 120p is more controversial. If you don't like it you can turn it off.
Thank you for this post. I thought I was going crazy seeing my favorite movies look like a camcorder reality show. I had just bought a new 70" Sharp TV and was really worried about this. Thanks to this post I changed my video setting, that is a factory setting by the way, from Movie Mode Advanced High to Off.
I do have to admit the awesome clarity has it's moments......The Bond girls!!!
This is very important post. I just bought a 32" HDTV and finds that all my Blu-ray movies look like they shot on video. I have tried the Movie mode on the monitor but still all the motions of the movie look like they are shot on HD video.
I am very disappointed by this look, my friends told me I am too demanding but I point out to them that when the camera pan on an action or a scene the motion is not as smooth and natural as I see it on normal TV or computer monitors.
They said it is because of the high definition images, the sharp image does something to the eye. I counter that if this is what we are gaining in HDTV I am so sorry that I have to live with losing what is essential to cinema, that is motion.
I tried everything on the dial or menu to correct what I find a sense of the video plastic motion instead of the smooth film motion of camera movement. I wonder of any cinephile here has the same experience here and I am ready to stay away from any more HDTV purchase in the future until the manufacturers really address this instead of saying all the good things about enhancing a cinematic experience here. Are we losing something by gaining image resolution?
This is a good thread. I have noticed the "video feel" when I walked past newer, big TVs in the stores and thought it looked quite odd, but never really gave it much more thought until I just purchased one of these TVs for myself. It's a 47 inch 120hz LG LED-LCD 3D TV. I can't help but seriously dislike the look, and I will try some suggestions posted here to see if it helps. (But even after 2+ years of this thread, it seems like nothing clear-cut has been posted. In fact, I still see some even questioning us as if we somehow hate the idea of clarity and high-def. That's not the case at all!)
I will research some more, but I can't believe there isn't an uproar from filmmakers. This is certainly NOT how they wanted their films seen! Maybe it is nowadays, but an example I'll site is "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring." This is the movie I saw that looked "video-like" when I was in the store about a year ago, and it just so happens I was watching it again yesterday when I got my TV. What the poster said above about how it plainly looked like a film set, where the look made it just seem like a bunch of people in makeup and costumes instead of is spot-on! As should be obvious by now, I enjoyed that movie very much. Watched it repeatedly on CRTs and then hi-def TVs. It always looked like a film to me until I saw it like this. I know some of the painstaking efforts put forth but Peter Jackson and the entire crew who made those films to give it such a realistic look, but now it look absolutely horrible, as if someone was using a handheld cam instead of top-of-the-line film equipment. So please, to those who call us crazy for this, please refrain. There is absolutely no way you enjoy the movie the same way if it looks like this. The Lord of the Rings won Oscars for it's look, and now it's looking horrible on a $1000 television? This is progress? Filmmakers go to great lengths to have the audience not taken out of the feel of the movie, but these TVs are doing it at factory default. It's awful and I wish there was a clear answer, but I admitted already I need to do much more research.
Not only that, but the motion itself is pretty awful as well at times. Motions are sped up and look horrible. I was just watching a bit of "Up in the Air" as an example, and there was a instance where George Clooney was talking and turned his head, for some reason that motion of head-turning was sped up for a brief moment. This sort of thing is awful. This is "tru motion?"
Jeez, I have a hard time believing you read the entire thread.
Turn off your "tru-motion" (motion interpolation). Problem solved.
Now, if you object to having *no* 2:3 telecine judder, you're hopeless. You don't get that in a movie theater, nor do you get it with a 120 Hz HDTV that does frame repeats. You *do* have it with 60 Hz sets. I say good riddance to it.Pull! Bang! Darn!
Judder, from what I understand, is a non-smoothness in motion that is often most noticeable when the camera is panning. How anyone would object to smooth motion is beyond me, and that is not what the discussion in this thread is mostly about.
The main point is movies looking rather horrible on new, expensive TVs where one would think they would look best.
Beyond that you can hire a certified HDTV calibration expert (Cedia or THX) to tune to your room.
There is nothing in this technology that "speeds up" motion. The technology used is very similar to digital cinema theaters. Do you object to digital cinema? If not, something is wrong with your TV.
* sales research shows that the average consumer picks an HDTV with excess contrast and over saturated colors. This research resulted in the "store display" default designed to sell product. The first thing you should do when you get the TV home is switch to "movie" mode. Then you try frame interpolation on vs frame interpolation off.
Last edited by edDV; 5th Oct 2011 at 22:23.
One other question: does turning off mean that the 3D will work less effectively? I ask because the film I watched last night didn't quite have the 3D effects I thought it would.
Edit - I forgot to mention that I set up the TV up for home use instead of store demo, and even went through a picture wizard that helps set up brightness, contrast, etc., so all that should be good.