AutoGK & Half Hour Shows

[Tom Saurus]

AutoGK seems to do a really decent job for me when converting mpeg2 files to the XVid format. Except when it comes to 20 to 25 minute episodes. I find that when it comes to sudden movements in a scene that the resulting files are quite hard on the eye. I converted some 38 minutes soaps for my Mom into the XVid format and the motion was very fluid and not hard on the eyes at all. I have converted some movies I recorded as well and they are excellent as well. I can't figure out why the length of time the clip runs should make a difference but it seems to be so. I took these 22 minute episodes and put them through TDA 3.0 to make an Divx Utra disc and through that program they gave me a file which was very smooth when played. Scene with sudden movements played very smoothly. I wonder if the Divx Codec does a better job when it comes to shows that run under a certain time. I would really like to figure this out, because as someone pointed out to me the DVD Players that support the Divx Ultra format may not be made that much longer into the future. Besides having individual files standing alone and not merged into one big file has it's advantages.

I usually choose 410mb as my target size so I can get two pass encoding using AutoGK and the fixed width of 640 to make the 38 minute soap episodes and the video and audio when converted to XVid is excellent. The 22 minute episodes I aim for 275mb or 300mb and they seem to be jerky.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can give me on this issue.

[manono]

Hi-

It's nothing to do with the length of the videos. It's nothing to do with the codec used. Do you have a log for an AutoGK encode that didn't turn out so well? And maybe a small piece of an AVI displaying the problem you're discussing?

[Tom Saurus]

manono: Thank you for responding to this topic. I have loaded the XVid into Womble Mpeg Video Wizard and cut out a few seconds of footage and then I had to re-encode it to their version of an XVid avi. But it does illustrate what I was trying to describe regardless. I am going to convert an other episode tonight and I will post a log. It has happened in all the episodes so far when it comes to this series. It has happened on other half hour episodes as well. This clip is from an episode of "Good Times".

good%20times%20example.avi

[Tom Saurus]

I think the sample video illustrates my point. For whatever reason sudden movements are not smooth and this gets irritating and also it bothers one's eyes after awhile. I hope that there is a solution. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me on this matter.

[jagabo]

The original source was 24 fps film, telecined to interlaced 29.97 fps video for transmission. The file you posted was drop-field deinterlaced. The result is half as much vertical resolution and every 4th frame is repeated. This video should be inverse telecined instead.

[Tom Saurus]

jagabo: Thank you for your input.

Here is a log from an episode of Good Times that AutoGk just got finished processing.

[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] AutoGK 2.45
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Job started.
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Input file: H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times\Ep26 Sometimes There's No Bottom In The Bottle.mpg
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Output file: H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times XVid Folder\S2_Ep26.avi
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Output codec: XviD
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Audio 1: Audio Stream 0 MPEG
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Subtitles: none
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Format: AVI
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Target size: 300Mb
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Custom resolution settings: fixed width of 640 pixels
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Audio 1 settings: CBR MP3 with bitrate: 128Kbps
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Standalone support enabled: MTK/Sigma
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Started encoding.
[18/10/2007 8:04:05 PM] Demuxing and indexing.
[18/10/2007 8:04:24 PM] Processing file: H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times\Ep26 Sometimes There's No Bottom In The Bottle.mpg
[18/10/2007 8:04:24 PM] Source resolution: 720x480
[18/10/2007 8:04:24 PM] Found NTSC source.
[18/10/2007 8:04:24 PM] Source aspect ratio: 4:3
[18/10/2007 8:04:24 PM] Color correction enabled.
[18/10/2007 8:04:24 PM] Analyzing source.
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Source has percentage of interlacing in motion areas: 66.26
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Source has percentage of telecined patterns: 4.83
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Source has percentage of progressive patterns: 19.81
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Source has percentage of interlaced patterns: 75.36
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Source is considered to be interlaced.
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Output will contain 42548 frames
[18/10/2007 8:05:11 PM] Encoding audio.
[18/10/2007 8:07:33 PM] Audio1 size: 22,716,288 bytes (21.66 Mb)
[18/10/2007 8:07:33 PM] Overhead: 505,216 bytes (0.48 Mb)
[18/10/2007 8:07:33 PM] Video size: 291,351,296 bytes (277.85 Mb)
[18/10/2007 8:07:33 PM] Running compressibility test.
[18/10/2007 8:07:33 PM] Writing the following script to H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times XVid Folder\agk_tmp\S2_Ep26_comptest.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\leakkerneld eint.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times XVid Folder\agk_tmp\S2_Ep26.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 0.888888888888889
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 640
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
SelectRangeEvery(300,15)
================================================== =========
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Duration was: 54 seconds
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Speed was: 39.23 fps.
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Compressibility percentage is: 79.01
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Chosen resolution is: 640x480 ( AR: 1.33 )
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Predicted comptest value is: 79.01%
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Running first pass.
[18/10/2007 8:08:27 PM] Writing the following script to H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times XVid Folder\agk_tmp\S2_Ep26_movie.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.d ll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\leakkerneld eint.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\Current DVD Projects\Good Times XVid Folder\agk_tmp\S2_Ep26.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 0.888888888888889
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 640
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,
samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,b ottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
================================================== =========
[18/10/2007 8:17:37 PM] Duration was: 9 minutes 9 seconds
[18/10/2007 8:17:37 PM] Speed was: 77.42 fps.
[18/10/2007 8:17:37 PM] Expected quality of first pass size: 75.34%
[18/10/2007 8:17:37 PM] Running second pass.
[18/10/2007 8:32:26 PM] Duration was: 14 minutes 49 seconds
[18/10/2007 8:32:26 PM] Speed was: 47.84 fps.
[18/10/2007 8:32:26 PM] Job finished. Total time: 28 minutes 21 seconds

I don't know if this reveals very much of what is causing the problem. If it helps here is a log from a project
that turned out very well. It is from an episode of OLTL.

[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] AutoGK 2.45
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Job started.
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Input file: H:\Current DVD Projects\OLTL\OLTL Oct 1st 2007.mpg
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Output file: H:\Current DVD Projects\OLTL_01_10_2007.avi
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Output codec: XviD
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Audio 1: Audio Stream 0 MPEG
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Subtitles: none
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Format: AVI
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Target size: 410Mb
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Custom resolution settings: fixed width of 640 pixels
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Audio 1 settings: Auto
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Standalone support enabled: MTK/Sigma
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Started encoding.
[02/10/2007 12:04:34 AM] Demuxing and indexing.
[02/10/2007 12:05:03 AM] Processing file: H:\Current DVD Projects\OLTL\OLTL Oct 1st 2007.mpg
[02/10/2007 12:05:03 AM] Source resolution: 720x480
[02/10/2007 12:05:03 AM] Found NTSC source.
[02/10/2007 12:05:03 AM] Source aspect ratio: 4:3
[02/10/2007 12:05:03 AM] Color correction enabled.
[02/10/2007 12:05:03 AM] Analyzing source.
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Source has percentage of interlacing in motion areas: 69.42
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Source has percentage of telecined patterns: 3.00
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Source has percentage of progressive patterns: 18.80
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Source has percentage of interlaced patterns: 78.20
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Source is considered to be interlaced.
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Output will contain 66836 frames
[02/10/2007 12:06:19 AM] Encoding audio.
[02/10/2007 12:09:42 AM] Audio1 size: 32,176,824 bytes (30.69 Mb)
[02/10/2007 12:09:42 AM] Overhead: 2,673,408 bytes (2.55 Mb)
[02/10/2007 12:09:42 AM] Video size: 395,065,928 bytes (376.76 Mb)
[02/10/2007 12:09:42 AM] Running compressibility test.
[02/10/2007 12:09:42 AM] Writing the following script to H:\Current DVD Projects\agk_tmp\OLTL_01_10_2007_comptest.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.d ll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\leakkerneld eint.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\Current DVD Projects\agk_tmp\OLTL_01_10_2007.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 0.888888888888889
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 640
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
SelectRangeEvery(300,15)
================================================== =========
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Duration was: 1 minute, 16 seconds
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Speed was: 43.67 fps.
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Compressibility percentage is: 86.24
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Chosen resolution is: 640x480 ( AR: 1.33 )
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Predicted comptest value is: 86.24%
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Running first pass.
[02/10/2007 12:10:59 AM] Writing the following script to H:\Current DVD Projects\agk_tmp\OLTL_01_10_2007_movie.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.d ll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\leakkerneld eint.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\Current DVD Projects\agk_tmp\OLTL_01_10_2007.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 0.888888888888889
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 640
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
LeakKernelDeInt(movie,order=1,sharp=true)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,samplestartframe
=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
================================================== =========
[02/10/2007 12:24:56 AM] Duration was: 13 minutes 56 seconds
[02/10/2007 12:24:56 AM] Speed was: 79.86 fps.
[02/10/2007 12:24:56 AM] Expected quality of first pass size: 81.67%
[02/10/2007 12:24:56 AM] Running second pass.
[02/10/2007 12:46:26 AM] Duration was: 21 minutes 30 seconds
[02/10/2007 12:46:26 AM] Speed was: 51.81 fps.
[02/10/2007 12:46:26 AM] Job finished. Total time: 41 minutes 51 seconds

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me concerning this matter.

[jagabo]

I don't know AutoGK but I can see the AVISynth filter called LeakKernelDeint() is called. This is the deinterlacing step. If you can get AUtoGK to follow that with a Decimate() or TDecimate() you can get 23.976 fps output without the jerkiness.

[manono]

I don't know AutoGK but I can see the AVISynth filter called LeakKernelDeint() is called. This is the deinterlacing step. If you can get AUtoGK to follow that with a Decimate() or TDecimate() you can get 23.976 fps output without the jerkiness.

If every 5th frame was a duplicate frame that might be true, but it's not. Nor would you get those jumps, indicative of missing frames, if this should have been IVTC'd to 23.976fps. If it was supposed to be IVTC'd, you'd get a max of 40% of the frames being interlaced, and usually somewhat less because of static frames that wouldn't show any interlacing from the telecine, but the log shows 66% of the frames being detected as interlaced. This isn't from a DVD, but is some sort of a capture. I suspect something was tampered with for the broadcast. Fields were probably dropped in order to speed up the show, something happening increasingly more often, but it's hard to be sure from the AVI.

If true, neither AutoGK nor a standard IVTC can handle this properly as it would have an unusual framerate that has to be first figured out, and then set in a "custom" IVTC to something like 25-26fps, followed by a manual encode. Tom Saurus, can you post a similar sample of the source capture? For this kind of thing a longer sample, maybe 10-15 seconds, might be needed.

[Tom Saurus]

b]manono[/b]: I recorded these episodes of "Good Times" using my Hauppauge 150. I used the specs that are for DVD Compliant mpeg2 files. I took a close look at one of the mpeg2 files today and I did notice some jerkiness to the picture and I think encoding to XVid kind of exaggerates or reveals it more. The episodes are 23:38 in length when the commercials are taken out. I recorded an episode of "Rifleman" about two weeks ago and those episodes where very jerky, so much so I deleted my original mpeg2 files as well. I will come back later and post some a picture showing the properties of the mpeg2 file according to Womble Mpeg Video Wizard.

I don't think I can post a clip of the original mpeg2 files because they would be over the 2mb size limit on this website. I could open a rapidshare or sendspace account and post a small clip, if it is necessary to get to the bottom of this problem.

Thank you for your help with this matter. Atleast "Rifleman" has been released on DVD, and my Mom has tried to order it, but the local video stores can't seem to get it in. So I thought I would tape some episodes for her, since she really is becoming a big fan of the show. I don't think she watched it when it originally aired.

[jagabo]

There are many free file transfer sites. Some examples:

http://s14.yousendit.com/
http://www.badongo.com/
http://www.megaupload.com/

[manono]

I don't think I can post a clip of the original mpeg2 files because they would be over the 2mb size limit on this website. I could open a rapidshare or sendspace account and post a small clip, if it is necessary to get to the bottom of this problem.

Yeah, or use a place that requires nothing from you before you upload. I use MediaFire:

http://www.mediafire.com/

The episodes are 23:38 in length when the commercials are taken out.

And if they were originally supposed to be - say - 25 minutes long, that would help support my case. If I'm right about them dropping fields to make the show play faster (so they can fit in more ads than originally intended), then it might play a little bit jerky, even when watching the show on TV. It'll become even more jerky when deinterlaced because a deinterlacer like KernelDeint uses only one of the fields and interpolates the motion parts. That is, it's dropping the other field, and if fields are also being dropped for broadcast, then sometimes there's not even a field left from a particular frame, and you get those jerks. This is just speculation until I see the source, but I've seen similar stuff from other sources.

[Tom Saurus]

I extracted a 15 second clip from an episode of "Good Times". It is 11.3mb in size. I checked out the mediafire website. It seems quite simple to post a clip there. I am not sure about the legality of recording stuff off of tv in the first place and then posting a clip on the website. Perhaps I should sign up for an account and then delete the file after a day or so. I definetly noticed the jerkiness even in the mpeg2 file, but it wasn't as pronounced.

I think your are right manono, they are definetly doing something with these broadcasts. I know I enjoy these older shows and we pay money every month for these channels. Looks like this is the way things are going to be. Either edit for time or content by deleting out scenes or by dropping frames. The truth in alot of cases is that these older shows are more enjoyable than alot of the stuff that is airing today and not all of them are getting placed on DVD.

[Tom Saurus]

I read various parts of the FAQ section at MediaFire and if I set up a free account I can delete the account at a later time and that deletes all the files uploaded. So I think I will upload the 15 second mpeg2 file and put a link to url here and then I will delete the clip after you tell me that you have downloaded it and checked it to see if you can figure out what is happening with these broadcasts.

When it comes to classic shows, this may develop into an incidious trend. On another channel I watch they air "Two Pints Of Lager" at night and they edit for time by cutting parts out. I no longer watch those episodes and I am laying away my pennies to buy the DVD sets, because atleast then I can see the full episodes.

I might end up avoiding these channels and dropping them. I know I almost never watch TBS, because of how much they edit there content. I used to love that channel back in the days they aired "Little House On The Prairie" and the "Little House On The Prairie Movies". They launched AMC up here in Canada, and most everything they show is edited for content or to fit in a certain length of time. I have read at one time AMC was a real gem of a movie channel, it is rather pale and pathetic when one compares it to TCM. I really enjoy TCM and I hope they don't jump on to the bandwagon with these other channels.

[Tom Saurus]

Here is the link to an example mpeg2 file:

http://www.mediafire.com/?4lgpzgiymyf

I am really impressed at how quick it is to upload and download from Mediafire. I will keep my account until tommorow and then close the account to delete the file.

If one watches really closely you will see a slight jerkiness to it. Also I seem to get a little interference when I record to my computer. I record by using an S-video cable. Sometimes the interferance is there and sometimes not. But that is a whole other matter.

[jagabo]

That sample is 59.94 field per second interlaced video and perfectly smooth.

DGIndex + AviSynth + VirtualDubMod + Xvid:

MPEG2Source("G_T_ Example.d2v")
LeakKernelDeint(order=1)
LanczosResize(480, 360)


g_t_%20example.avi

[manono]

Yep, regular old shot-on-video. That's what I get for guessing without having the source to examine. The question then arises why that other sample was so messed up, with duplicate frames where there shouldn't have been any, and dropped frames that shouldn't have been dropped.

If jagabo's encode plays perfectly smoothly, then you're finding parts of the episodes play fine, and other parts play jerky? Better would have been to upload a part of an episode from the same section where the converted AVI plays jerky (like the source MPG for the AVI you uploaded before). The log doesn't give any clue as to what's going wrong. About all I can suggest is to use a different deinterlacer, which will mean doing it manually in VDubMod. If LeakKernelDeint isn't doing the job, then maybe try Yadif or TDeint. But if you're not up to encoding manually (creating the AviSynth script file with the crop, resize, deinterlacer), then, as much as I hate to suggest it, maybe try one of the other AVI creation programs to see if it can do a better job.

[Tom Saurus]

manono: To save space on my computer I deleted the original mpeg2. But thanks to Hjsplit I have the one section of the .avi that AutoGK made because that part was near the beginning of the episode. This is what they call the "Engine" part of the clips that Hjsplit creates and it will play by itself since it is the first part. I didn't know of a way to extract a small clip from a completed .avi without loading it into Womble Mpeg Video Wizard. But since WMVW isn't capable yet of extracting a clip from an .avi by just direct streaming it like it does mpeg I exported it an an XVid .avi. So maybe by doing that it made things worse.

Maybe it is just my eyes, but watching some 23 minutes episodes of another show I used AutoGK and place on a cd-r and some I placed on dvd-r it really irritated my eyes. For the most part everything plays smoothly but there were parts that seemed to not blend well with the rest of the show.

In the clip from the original Xvid .avi the part that irritated my eyes was when J.J. sister walks over to the couch to tell him off for sleeping in after discussing menopause with her brother Michael. There is something about the motion that just doesn't seem smooth.

When I watched the same scene after TDA 3 made a Divx Ultra disc is seemed to be more smooth in the motion parts. I really don't understand all this. Mom's OLTL that I converted to XVid with AutoGK plays smooth even when it comes to motion scenes. I even did an episode of ALIAS which airs on the Space Channel here in Canada and we all know it is nearly constant action and fast moves and it plays very smoothly and doesn't irritate my eyes abit.

In my next post I will give a link to the first part of the XVid .avi that Hjsplit made, that didn't have to go through Womble to extract it.

[manono]

Hi-

I didn't understand much of what you said in the post. Did I misunderstand when I'm thinking that some other program (what is Hjsplit?) may have messed up the AutoGK encode by perhaps reencoding it as you were cutting it? Anyway:

I didn't know of a way to extract a small clip from a completed .avi without loading it into Womble Mpeg Video Wizard.

VDubMod, with the video set for Direct Stream Copy cuts very nicely.

[Tom Saurus]

Here is a link to the first part of the episode of "Good Times" this didn't go through Womble MVW so that won't be a factor. Maybe it is just the way they transition between one scene and the next is what is irritating my eyes. It just seems to be a bit jarring and perhaps that is the way it was filmed. Or maybe I need to get my eyes checked. Well anyway here is that clip:

http://www.mediafire.com/?at5ccliu3gt

[manono]

That one looks lousy. It's not deinterlaced well, and it still has those missing frames and duplicate frames. It does look like the outdoors intro credits scenes were shot on film, as you get pretty steady dupe frames every 5th frame. It's not uncommon for that to be true, though.

I don't know what to say. I don't really know or understand why the deinterlacer is failing so badly, if that's what's happening.

[Tom Saurus]

manono: I loaded the XVid .avi into Womble Mpeg Video Wizard because it accepts .avi files and even .wmv files. I extracted the files by cutting out what I though illustrated my point. I put these on the timeline. Then when I was exporting the clip, MVW wanted to re-encode it to an .mpeg2 file and then I decided to export it as an .avi and was using the setting in there and perhaps that introduced some new problems.

HjSplit is a program that one uses that can take a file and divide it into smaller chunks that another person who has HjSplit can use that program to join the files back together into a complete file that is exactly like the original. Alot of hosting sites have a 100mb limit so people take HjSplit or other programs that do the same thing, take their files divide them up into chunks that are under 100mb in size and then post them and others download the chunks and HjSplit stiches them back together. Now only the first part of the file is playable on its own. It is the part that is considered the "engine" of the train. It is usually referred to as "001" and if you have any of the other parts without "001" they can not be opened by any program. The parts are all saved together in a folder and HjSplit takes 001 and 002, ect and joins them back together. But if you had a 001 file and was missing 002 but have the other remaining parts it will not join because a link in the chain or train is broken. If you had a 001 file through 006 file and parts 007 & 008 were missing you could join the file but obviously part of the file is missing.

I believe that Hjsplit was created originally for people who had large files to send via email and HjSplit allowed them a way to divide things up into smaller chunks and then for the person you are emailing to combine them on their end. Now with file hosting websites, and with DSL modems that can upload and download at fast speeds, and the ablity for people to take audio and video and convert them to say the XVid or DivX format files do get split up and divided and rejoined. I think Hollywood is aware of this technology and is taking steps to nip things in the bud, because obviously this could be a method for illegally sharing movies, ect.

HjSplit like any technology can be used for various purposes. A person could record a family trip and convert that to XVid or DivX format and then via file hosting websites could share that file with various relatives and friends. A person could also use the same technology to take a file which they legally don't have a right to share and make it available for others to download. I think the File Hosting websites do search for these types of files and delete them or delete them when notified.


I will download VdubMod and try my best to learn how to work with it. I am curious about certain tv and shows have fallen into the catagory known as Public Domain what the legality is of sharing them. I know that there are websites such as Project Gutenberg that share Literature that has become "Public Domain" material. I ofcourse know that 70's sitcoms are not public domain. Perhaps down the line their will be online museums that will showcase Public Domain video and audio for everyone to enjoy. Maybe there already are. I know of one website that is really neat and is a really nice compliment to Project Gutenberg and it is called LibriVox and people read public domain books and this is recorded into mp3. I think that could be a nice resource for people who are visually impaired to listen to these files if they so desired. The internet can really benifit the citizens of the world and Project Gutenberg and LibriVox are just two examples.

[manono]

I will download VdubMod and try my best to learn how to work with it.

Since you use AutoGK, you already have VDubMod. That's the encoder and AVI muxer and splitter AutoGK uses. Here's a guide to some of the things it can do:

http://www.doom9.org/vdubmod-procedures.htm

[Tom Saurus]

manono: I just tried using VirtualDubMod to extract a scene from an Xvid .avi and it does a good job of doing so. Thank you for all your advice.

Thankyou also to jagabo. It was kind of you both to take your time to try to contribute to this thread.

[jagabo]

Tom, I doubt this is the problem but it's something to look at:

I have a Hauppauge PVR-250. In the capture device driver there is an inverse telecine setting. It doesn't do anything with my PVR-250 but I wonder if the PVR-150 has the feature and you have it enabled. Trying to IVTC a fully interlaced video would result in jerky playback. It might be trying to automatically IVTC some scenes but not others. That might explain why some of your scenes are jerky and some not.

I'm recording Good Times from the TVLAND channel right now. It's a different broadcaster than you're recording from but I'll let you know if I see anything unusual in the broadcast.

<later...>

The episode of Good Times I recorded was fully interlaced video. I didn't see anything unsual, except for a small section during the credits which had some field blending artifacts. This was probably because they sped up or slowed down the short section of interlaced video to match the timing of the theme song.

I did some quick tests with VirtualDub with Donald Graft's SmartDeinterlace filter, and AVISynth with LeakKernelDeint(). Both turned out nice and smooth. Results were similar to the short clip I posted earlier.

[Tom Saurus]

Thank you jagabo for doing a test record with your capture card. I am posting a new example with a different show. I am posting the log, an mpg example and an AutoGk avi example. I thinking maybe the problem lies with my original mpeg2 captures. I noticed alot of distracting movement around the channel name in the .avi file.

First the log:

[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] AutoGK 2.45
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] OS: WinXP (5.1.2600).2
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Job started.
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Input file: H:\Videohelp Examples\CpS2Ep7_Example.mpg
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Output file: H:\Videohelp Examples\CpS2Ep7_Example.avi
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Output codec: XviD
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Audio 1: Audio Stream 0 MPEG
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Subtitles: none
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Format: AVI
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Target size: 10Mb
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Custom resolution settings: fixed width of 640 pixels
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Audio 1 settings: CBR MP3 with bitrate: 128Kbps
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Standalone support enabled: MTK/Sigma
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Started encoding.
[22/10/2007 11:07:48 AM] Demuxing and indexing.
[22/10/2007 11:07:49 AM] Processing file: H:\Videohelp Examples\CpS2Ep7_Example.mpg
[22/10/2007 11:07:49 AM] Source resolution: 720x480
[22/10/2007 11:07:49 AM] Found NTSC source.
[22/10/2007 11:07:49 AM] Source aspect ratio: 4:3
[22/10/2007 11:07:49 AM] Color correction enabled.
[22/10/2007 11:07:49 AM] Analyzing source.
[22/10/2007 11:08:02 AM] Source has percentage of interlacing in motion areas: 52.29
[22/10/2007 11:08:02 AM] Source has percentage of telecined patterns: 24.03
[22/10/2007 11:08:02 AM] Source has percentage of progressive patterns: 3.10
[22/10/2007 11:08:02 AM] Source has percentage of interlaced patterns: 72.87
[22/10/2007 11:08:02 AM] Source is considered to be hybrid (mostly NTSC).
[22/10/2007 11:08:02 AM] Looking for optimal hybrid thresholds.
[22/10/2007 11:08:04 AM] Found threshold of: 1.69
[22/10/2007 11:08:04 AM] Output will contain 1480 frames
[22/10/2007 11:08:04 AM] Encoding audio.
[22/10/2007 11:08:09 AM] Audio1 size: 791,424 bytes (0.75 Mb)
[22/10/2007 11:08:09 AM] Overhead: 17,536 bytes (0.02 Mb)
[22/10/2007 11:08:09 AM] Video size: 9,676,800 bytes (9.23 Mb)
[22/10/2007 11:08:09 AM] Running compressibility test.
[22/10/2007 11:08:09 AM] Writing the following script to H:\Videohelp Examples\agk_tmp\
CpS2Ep7_Example_comptest.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\decomb.dll" )
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\Videohelp Examples\agk_tmp\CpS2Ep7_Example.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,threshold=34,
samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,b ottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 0.888888888888889
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 640
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
Telecide(movie,guide=1,post=2).Decimate(mode=1,thr eshold=1.69)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,
samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,b ottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
SelectRangeEvery(15,15)
================================================== =========
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Duration was: 40 seconds
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Speed was: 36.87 fps.
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Compressibility percentage is: 62.00
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Chosen resolution is: 640x480 ( AR: 1.33 )
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Predicted comptest value is: 62.00%
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Running first pass.
[22/10/2007 11:08:49 AM] Writing the following script to H:\Videohelp Examples\
agk_tmp\CpS2Ep7_Example_movie.avs
================================================== =========
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.d ll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\autocrop.dl l")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\decomb.dll" )
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\ColorMatrix .dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\AutoGK\filters\RemoveGrain SSE3.dll")

movie = mpeg2source("H:\Videohelp Examples\agk_tmp\CpS2Ep7_Example.d2v")
cropclip = autocrop(movie,mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples= 10,aspect=0,
threshold=34,samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd =0,topadd=0,bottomadd=0)
fixed_aspect = 0.888888888888889
c_width = width(cropclip)
c_height = round(height(cropclip) / fixed_aspect)
input_par = float(c_width)/float(c_height)
input_par = (input_par > 1.4) || (input_par < 1.25) ? input_par : (4.0/3.0)
out_width = 640
out_height = round(float(out_width) / input_par)
hmod = out_height - (floor(out_height / 16 ) * 16)
out_height = (hmod > 4) ? (out_height + (16 - hmod)) : (out_height - hmod)
new_aspect = (float(out_width) / float(out_height)) / fixed_aspect
Telecide(movie,guide=1,post=2).Decimate(mode=1,thr eshold=1.69)
autocrop(mode=0,wmultof=4,hmultof=4,samples=10,asp ect=new_aspect,threshold=34,
samplestartframe=0,leftadd=0,rightadd=0,topadd=0,b ottomadd=0)
LanczosResize(out_width,out_height)
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
ColorMatrix("Rec.709->Rec.601",opt=0,hints=false,threads=0)
================================================== =========
[22/10/2007 11:09:23 AM] Duration was: 34 seconds
[22/10/2007 11:09:23 AM] Speed was: 43.33 fps.
[22/10/2007 11:09:23 AM] Expected quality of first pass size: 57.50%
[22/10/2007 11:09:23 AM] Running second pass.
[22/10/2007 11:10:01 AM] Duration was: 38 seconds
[22/10/2007 11:10:01 AM] Speed was: 38.76 fps.
[22/10/2007 11:10:01 AM] Job finished. Total time: 2 minutes 13 seconds

The original mpeg2 clip:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ebh1jmid3m0

The AutoGK avi:

http://www.mediafire.com/?9ynq2lbt2mh


I am starting to think the problem must be with my Hauppauge Card. Or maybe this slight interference I seem to get with my cables going into the Hauppauge Card. Or maybe I need to defrag my hard drive or something like that.

[jagabo]

The last MPG file you posted was originally PAL. It has the partial field blending that is often used with PAL to NTSC conversions. It is difficult to convert this type of video to progressive frames without ghosting and jerking. You'll need to use RePal() for AviSynth.

MPEG2Source("sample.d2v")
LeakKernelDeint(Order=1) #order=0 for BFF source
RePAL()

That will get you the original 25 fps PAL frames with minimal ghosting.

I think your needs are beyond what AutoGK can provide. You might consider leaving your video as MPEG2 and burning to regular movie DVD. If you want to put more on each disc, capture with half D1 (352x480) or s-vcd (480x480) with lower bitrates. Your Divx/DVD player will probably play the bare MPG files on data discs, just like Divx AVI files.

Otherwise, you're going to have to learn a little AviSynth and VirtualDub...

[Tom Saurus]

I was able to extract a couple of clips from my Divx Ultra discs with VdubMod. VdubMod didn't really want to accept the file but it did just the same. Well anyway with a Divx Ultra file all that is recognized by VLC and VirtualDubMod is the first episode of the file. So the other segments are ignored or can't be accessed.

I find that somehow TDA 3 with its Divx Ultra has a way of smoothing out the video and I end up with fairly good results. I hope that whoever invented VirtualDubMod can work on finding a way to access every video episode or segment of a Divx Ultra file.

Here is an example from Coronation Street which is pal to begin with converted to ntsc and has their version of the wide screen format or semi wide screen:

http://www.mediafire.com/?fh0yogefxey

Here is an example from an episode of "Good Times" from an Divx Ultra disc:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1jz2msssi4y

I have a disc with 11 episodes of "Good Times" and I enjoyed the way my Divx Ultra Player played it.

I downloaded the DivX Player from the Divx.com and even though I am nervous about some kind of spyware perhaps being in it, it plays the DivX Ultra format as long as I used mp3 audio. I was moronic and encoded my Divx Ultra projects except for the last few with Dolby Audio and the Divx Player will not accept them.

I am hoping though that in the future VLC will add some support for Divx Ultra. There is some hope on that front. A person who works on developing VLC told me in the Feature Request forumn at vlc that if I could post an example of a Divx Ultra file that they might work on building some support in.

Beyond this I do like individual files that have more support and that have more of a chance of being around in the future, if only to convert the XVid or Divx avi file to some new better file format that is around the corner or down the block.