Reviving an Old PC

[wild4trv30]

I am using an older PC (Win 98, 128 RAM, P3 500, GeForce2 Ultra 64 MB) for surfing/streaming/children's video games on a LCD TV. Would I get better performance for these purposes if I installed Windows ME, or XP Home Edition on this PC with the same hardware configurations?

Thanks in advance.

[TBoneit]

Without upgradingthe ram to 512Mb I wouldn't put anything newer than Win98Se or WinME on that computer. Win2000 or Xp would both really need 4 times the memory you have to run decent.

It shoud run decent with 98 or ME as is. I'd probably add AVG free edition Antivirus since you mention surfing and that still runs on 98 machines.

Good Luck

We actually use something similar for our cash register. It boots to 98SE quickly, logs onto teh network quickly, loads the register S/W quickly and shuts down very quick at the end of the day.

[rhegedus]

You will need more RAM than 128MB if you want to run XP - I think even Win98 would struggle with that.

[ozymango]

I'll strongly second what Tboneit said -- there's really no advantage to going to XP as is, you've got to up the RAM or you'll experience computer slowness pain on a level that'll make you cry.

And if it's just for the kiddies and basic programs, I'd just leave 98 on it, it runs just fine on a P3 and it's much more well behaved than ME (in my own experience, anyway). Only reason I'd go to XP is ... well, I was gonna say if you've got a driver that won't work in 98, but chances are that if the program won't work in 98 then it'll want much more of a PC anyway and I'd search for a program that will work with 98 rather than spring for XP. If that made any sense.

[wild4trv30]

Thanks for the advice. I may look into upgrading the RAM (I have to check which kind it has--several years old) reformatting and reinstalling 98 on it as it has been through the ringer with various downloads/installs.

While I've been able to stream m3u, RealPlayer and Win. Media Player files fine, FLV with Flash Player 9 is very choppy (the same files play smoothly on my main machine).

Thanks again.

P.S. I already have AVG-free (which they are ending support for Win 98 at the end of 2008), AdAware installed, and it is behind a DSL Gateway hardware firewall.

P.P.S. It looks like I can upgrade to a max. of 768 RAM (3 DIMM sockets total with 128 already in one--so for me 640 MB total). However, I was thinking that while this would help with the streaming--some sites (e.g. ABC) and newer kids games are requiring XP or later, so XP home may be the necessary option--decisions, decisions!

[redwudz]

If you do consider a OS upgrade, I would recommend Windows 2000. It has most of the benefits of XP, but runs better on slower CPUs. Drivers are more readily available than with W98 also.

But I would add some memory, even if you stay with W98. You can go to most memory sites like, Crucial, Mushkin, Corsair or similar and they should have a memory configurer available. Just put in the brand and model of your laptop, and it will tell you what's available. I'd recommend 512MB, but even 256MB will be a big improvement over 128MB.

And since this is more a computer question, moving you to our Computer Forum.

[wild4trv30]

...And since this is more a computer question, moving you to our Computer Forum.

Redwudz--I thought I'd get a better real-world perspective in this forum since it will be used as a Home Entertainment PC. Sorry if I crossed the forum boundaries, but I looks like some overall good advice anyway.

[TBoneit]

One thing do not upgrade win98 to more than 512Mb of memory as you will most likely have issues.

As to memory it is either PC100 or PC133 SDram. With a 500Mhz CPU it could be either speed depending on which of the P3 500's you have.

It just may not have the horses to run FLVs. Many things impact speed. Memory speed. CPU speed, Hard drive speed, FSB Video card interface and so on.

[edDV]

Best answer is a new motherboard (with onboard video) + CPU + RAM. Also consider a new case and power supply. Cost? $150up.

Old RAM is expensive. Don't upgrade OS without everything new. New OS is cheapest when packaged with new hardware. Time is running out to find XP on a new computer.

[wild4trv30]

TBoneit: This may be getting off-topic...but do you or anyone know why most of the mainstream streaming sites are using FLV anyway? It seems like RealPlayer and WM formats are less system intensive (at least they play better on my Win98 System). It seems like somebody decided to force everyone to by more expensive hardware.

One thing do not upgrade win98 to more than 512Mb of memory as you will most likely have issues.

As to memory it is either PC100 or PC133 SDram. With a 500Mhz CPU it could be either speed depending on which of the P3 500's you have.

It just may not have the horses to run FLVs. Many things impact speed. Memory speed. CPU speed, Hard drive speed, FSB Video card interface and so on.

[edDV]

TBoneit: This may be getting off-topic...but do you or anyone know why most of the mainstream streaming sites are using FLV anyway? It seems like RealPlayer and WM formats are less system intensive (at least they play better on my Win98 System). It seems like somebody decided to force everyone to by more expensive hardware.

One thing do not upgrade win98 to more than 512Mb of memory as you will most likely have issues.

As to memory it is either PC100 or PC133 SDram. With a 500Mhz CPU it could be either speed depending on which of the P3 500's you have.

It just may not have the horses to run FLVs. Many things impact speed. Memory speed. CPU speed, Hard drive speed, FSB Video card interface and so on.

Another way of saying that is they are only interested in reaching the top 60% of Windows users and those on Win98 and Pentium 3 can't play.

I consider myself thrifty but lets face it, you can find better computers than yours put out for garbage day. Ask around. Many are trying to avoid the CA recycle fee so you may score a sub 3MHz P4 for free. Many try to take these to thrift shops for tax credit but thrift shops often reject all but the best or they have to pay the recycle fee.

[TBoneit]

Wow, California has a recycle fee? Huh!

Around here in Central NJ you'll see computers and monitors at the curb all the time. Mostly in spring when the towns run Spring pickup.

That's when you see old chairs, TV sets, Phonographs, computers, printers, Bathroom fixtures, matresses, Tree/bush branches and so on at the curb. It is also when you see pickup trucks going around sorting through the junk, even though town regs prohibit it. About the only thing illegal to put out is construction debris.

There is still a use for the old P2/P3 computers... I have customers that use them as to replace the old ISA controller cards and software would be thousands of dollars.

This morning I just repaired a Netware 3.xx server where the motherboard died. I pulled a old P3 500 with ISA slots off of the shelf, put in the ISA network card and hard drive from the old server and done.
Only reason I did it that way was to avoid having to set up the old server s/w ith a new PCI ethernet card.

Bottom line, older computers are also usefull sometimes more so than newer computers.

The cash register here was running on Win95 and since that Mobo died now on a P2 and win98. It starts up quick. logs on to the server quickly. At the end of the day when I click shutoff, it takes about 3 seconds to turn off from within windows. I don't think I can get that speed starting up and shutting down with Win2K or XP or Vista with out using expensive hardware.

[thecoalman]

Just my opinion wild4trv30 but by the time you invest in what you need you could have put a significant amount towards a cheap new or used computer. You're trying to put a rocket engine into a model-A.

I think even Win98 would struggle with that.

I had win98 se running on 128 without any problems, p1 233 ..

Wasn't any good for anything but surfing the net, Word etc.

[edDV]

Here they have one day a year for free computer/TV recycle otherwise a stiff recycle fee ($25-50, separate for monitor) is needed or you have to ship the old one to HP or other recyclers. There are plans for a recycle center at the local dump. Thrift shops now refuse to be dumping grounds for old computers/monitors. Old refrigerators require $50-70 recycle fee.

Welcome to your future.

As for old machines, true they have uses but flash needs a more modern machine.

[thecoalman]

Old refrigerators require $50-70 recycle fee.
.

That's ridiculous, is that just for fridges or all "white items". You can take a truckload of aplliances to scrap yard here and they will pay you for it. It's not much but nonetheless it's still cash. Been afew years since I took anything there but generally a truckload of say 3 or 4 stoves would get you $10-$15. The fridges need to have the freon removed before they will accept them, that's a industry in itself though. You can find people to recover it for free.

[edDV]

Old refrigerators require $50-70 recycle fee.
.

That's ridiculous, is that just for fridges or all "white items". You can take a truckload of aplliances to scrap yard here and they will pay you for it. It's not much but nonetheless it's still cash. Been afew years since I took anything there but generally a truckload of say 3 or 4 stoves would get you $10-$15. The fridges need to have the freon removed before they will accept them, that's a industry in itself though. You can find people to recover it for free.

Welcome to California and future national laws. That fee includes freon removal.

[ozymango]

Welcome to California and future national laws. That fee includes freon removal.

Are you willing to recycle people's old refrigerators for free?

[edDV]

Welcome to California and future national laws. That fee includes freon removal.

Are you willing to recycle people's old refrigerators for free?

I'm sure they resell that freon.

[redwudz]

The Freon is worth more than the fridge. They filter it, add new compressor oil and sell it to people who still have Freon refrigeration units. Since Freon is not available new any more, there's a big market.

Around here, CRT devices are $20 each to dispose of. Most other appliances, including computers, they charge you by the pound, I believe about a $1 per pound. But when you buy any of those items new, there is also a added recycling fee. So you are charged twice.

But really, if you want a used computer for free, just ask around your neighborhood. Most people put them in their garage when they get a new one, then eventually get around to disposing of them. If it's been there for a few months or more, they may be happy to get rid of it.

[ozymango]

I'm sure they resell that freon.

I'm sure they do! I'd like to think there's a market for recycled freon, then it might encourage others to get into the freon recycling business.

[thecoalman]

Are you willing to recycle people's old refrigerators for free?

Surely, besides the freon the fridge itself is worth money. You only need a shredder, from there its just a matter of seperating the different plastics and metals. The scrap yards I'm speaking of above that pay for these items have made multi millionaires out of the people who run them. Most will stockpile the seperated material, especially the metal. When the price is high enough they cash in, some of those stockpiles may sit there for years.

[ozymango]

Surely, besides the freon the fridge itself is worth money. You only need a shredder, from there its just a matter of seperating the different plastics and metals. The scrap yards I'm speaking of above that pay for these items have made multi millionaires out of the people who run them. Most will stockpile the seperated material, especially the metal. When the price is high enough they cash in, some of those stockpiles may sit there for years.

That's exactly my point -- it's not a hardship to recycle a refrigerator, it's money waiting to be recovered, right? If so, there's no need to take it to the dump and pay them to recycle it, you just contact a shredder who wants to become a millionaire and they'll gladly do this. Right?

Unless the point is that California is requiring people recycle their refrigerators only at a California State Dump with associated fees, in which case, that would suck and I'm totally opposed to that. But if it's just that refrigerators need to be recycled, it's a money-making opportunity for the recycler so I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with it.

[edDV]

Surely, besides the freon the fridge itself is worth money. You only need a shredder, from there its just a matter of seperating the different plastics and metals. The scrap yards I'm speaking of above that pay for these items have made multi millionaires out of the people who run them. Most will stockpile the seperated material, especially the metal. When the price is high enough they cash in, some of those stockpiles may sit there for years.

That's exactly my point -- it's not a hardship to recycle a refrigerator, it's money waiting to be recovered, right? If so, there's no need to take it to the dump and pay them to recycle it, you just contact a shredder who wants to become a millionaire and they'll gladly do this. Right?

Unless the point is that California is requiring people recycle their refrigerators only at a California State Dump with associated fees, in which case, that would suck and I'm totally opposed to that. But if it's just that refrigerators need to be recycled, it's a money-making opportunity for the recycler so I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with it.

I'm in a remote county. If you buy a fridge and want the seller to take the old one away, they charge the recycle fee + try for a dump run service fee. New computers and TV sets in CA require a recycle fee pre-paid. If you drive an old fridge to the dump they (Waste Management) charge the recycle fee. A private recycler may offer a better deal.

I bought my last fridge two years ago when they were offering free delivery. Back then they added $50 to take the old one away.

[ozymango]

I'm in a remote county. If you buy a fridge and want the seller to take the old one away, they charge the recycle fee + try for a dump run service fee.

Ah, the ol' "gouge the customer" routine. I'm lucky, we've got lotsa recyclers in our area and disposal fees are pretty reasonable for even hazardous waste (like old lead paint and truly nasty stuff).

[MOVIEGEEK]

Back on topic...
Since WinXP is ~$150USD retail I would spend another $100 and get a cheap eMachine PC or check the Yellow Pages for used PC's.

[ozymango]

Back on topic...
Since WinXP is ~$150USD retail I would spend another $100 and get a cheap eMachine PC or check the Yellow Pages for used PC's.

Oh, yeah, forgot about that ... ...

If the original poster is still reading this, I think this really depends on your actual use of the PC -- if you've already got the hardware, I'd start with asking, how good (or bad) is this computer behaving right now? If it's just sometimes slow, especially when doing more than one thing at once, but is mostly okay, I'd up the memory to 256mb and see if that helps. If not, I wouldn't do much more to the existing computer, I think your money would be better spent on upgrading everything, which means basically a completely new PC.

That being said, for the uses you mention I suspect this computer would behave pretty well if you just reinstalled everything from scratch, if that's an option. You might be amazed at how much faster your computer behaves after a fresh build. And the price is right!

Then if it's still slow as a pig, go see what your friends and neighbors are throwing away and offer to recycle it for them. At a good price!

[wild4trv30]

How did we go from reviving an old PC to use for HE to freon charges????

Thanks for all the input. I think you're right about not investing too much in that box. I just found some PC 100 RAM at a local PC store and will upgrade from 128 to 384 MB for $30 (just for Sh&*! and giggles). I'll keep the Win 98 SE on it and just clean it up a bit. While it seems the FLV files will be a no-go, it'll still be good for surfing and most kids games.

Thanks again.

[edDV]

How did we go from reviving an old PC to use for HE to freon charges????

Got sidetracked into dumpster diving.

[redwudz]

edDV was the one that mentioned fridges. The rest of us were just innocent followers.

But if you can get a memory stick installed for cheap, give it a try. My only complaint about W98 was that it seemed to work best to re-install the OS about four times a year to keep optimum performance. It just appeared to get bogged down after a while. Keeping the OS on a separate partition or a separate drive should make it easy enough for periodic re-installs if that's what works for you. But I still like W2000 as a better compromise.