AVStoDVD Support Thread

[davexnet]

Hi MrC,

I've been playing around with the preference "use PAL speedup" for NTSC to PAL conversion.

I was wondering if it would be possible to implement the reverse. For PAL to NTSC,
instead of encoding 25 fps @ 720*480 then 25 fps > 29.97 via DGpulldown,
SLOWDOWN the file to 23.976 (including audio) and apply pulldown (in HCenc if selected or via DGpulldown).

In some DVD players this gives a better result, also it restores the proper speed of the movie
(without the 4% PAL speedup).


What do you think? I've done it manually myself, I believe the result is superior.

[_MrC_]

Hi Dave,

good point, I do believe that the result is better. I will add it to the ToDo list.

There is always great interest in changing framerates, surely one of the weaker points in DVD video conversion. I have recently got a similar (but NTSC -> PAL) request on Doom9 forum: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1658180&postcount=2366



Bye

[davexnet]

Very interesting - I believe I've used something similar to the proposed doom9 script also.
I'm not an Avisynth expert, but you can see the script is a useful NTSC progressive to PAL alternate method
resulting in interlaced PAL, but giving a smoother result than ChangeFPS(().

There may be some better ways, for example, 25i > NTSC results in a progressive VOB. This may not be handled
properly by all players, and probably DGpulldown should not be used here,
rather straight interlaced encoding in the encoder, with the frame rate change handled in the script.
(However, I'm not a script expert (did I say that already) you may know better than me!)

END PULLDOWN OPERATIONS
DGPulldown executed on File: K:\Temp\DVD_7_Mud - Tiger Feet - Totp2 - Dvd.m2v (183.8 MB)
OUTPUT VIDEO INFO: MPEG-2 Video - 6976 kbps - 720x480 - DAR 1.333 - 29.97 fps (CFR) - Progressive - 3:40 minutes - 6622 frames
<>

Thanks for considering my idea.
Happy Holidays!

[theewizard]

its probably already been posted and i missed it
BUT
is there a way to create 'scene' icons for each chapter
I recorded ALL 3 hours of the live broadcast dec 5th of "sound of music"
used video redo and removed/edited all ads/commercials
I would like to make a disc, that allows choosing scene/chapter, like retail movie discs do
i already made a DVD 2hrs 15min, 5.8 gig DL, plays beautiful
but would like to do one with scene selection

YES, i thought about cutting the file to peaces, and loading all the episodes, but would rather have an automatic/scripted way of doing it

i don't mine changing the chapter list to 10min per chapter and having 1/2 the number of chapters, it would still be 13 chapters

[_MrC_]

@Dave

you are right, applying pulldown on an interlaced source is wrong. A deinterlace is actually needed. Thanks for pointing out that issue.

@theewizard

unfortunately it is not possible: BatchMux (the MuxMan wrapper used to perform DVD authoring) does not support that feature. You can only use your DVD remote controller to skip forward or backward the chapters.



Bye

[theewizard]

okay thanks for the reply
IF i get energetic, i'll cut the source file into peaces and make one that way

BIG IF

[davexnet]

Hi MrC,
hope you had a nice Christmas. I came across another thing, along the lines of what we were discussing.

I have a 720p60 clip I captured off of the air. Within the stream, there are only 23.976 unique frames per second.
The standard AVStoDVD scrpt uses SelectEven() . You can see that for this video it's not going to work properly.
Decimating to 23.976 and then encoding with pulldown would be the thing to do.

The trouble is, how are you going to know the file is like this?

Here's the script I've been playing with - I looked at it again this morning
and there may be some issues with it..

LoadPlugin("J:\StaxRip_1.1.7.2\Applications\DGMPGDec\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2source("C:\Documents and Settings\Dave New\Desktop\vids\20100404225319-js.d2v", info=3,cpu=6)
ColorMatrix(hints=true)
TDecimate(mode=2, rate=23.976)
Spline36Resize(720,480)

The source file is mpg, 34 seconds, 56MB:
https://www.mediafire.com/?hsm528qrjrwlrev

[_MrC_]

Hi Dave,

nice Christmas indeed, hope the same for you

About the file, MediaInfo reports to be 59.940 fps progressive. That's why there is the SelectEven() function in the script. No hints to be 23.976 fps. How did you get that value?



Bye

[manono]

How did you get that value?

That's how film is shown in 720p 59.94fps broadcasts. You begin with the 23.976fps film frames and repeat them in a 32323232 pattern. That takes it up to 59.94fps for NTSC broadcast. I suppose davexnet did some counting to discover the pattern. SelectEven brings it down to 29.97fps with a duplicate frame every 5-frame cycle so it plays jerky, with 6 little stutters every second.

The usual way to handle it and bring it back to film framerate is with:

SelectEven()
TDecimate()

It's up to you to figure out how to implement something like that. If you decide to.

[davexnet]

Hi Manono/MrC,
thanks for the scripting tips. I did a search in Videohelp.com and found the suggestion for
TDecimate(mode=2, rate=23.976) - (by jagabo, I think). Your method didn't occur to me.
Another thing I tried -
Srestore(frate=23.976)
appeared to work, but I wasn't sure about it.

Yes, I opened the file in Virtualdub, stepped through it one frame at a time, and counted the amount of unique
frames in one second.

Was the Jerry Seinfeld show shot on film? I thought it would have been straight NTSC interlaced.

[manono]

Was the Jerry Seinfeld show shot on film? I thought it would have been straight NTSC interlaced.

At first I thought you were talking about a movie. When I downloaded and checked the sample I was surprised to see it was from the Seinfold TV show because I, too, would have thought it was shot on video. But both the sample and IMDB prove it was shot on film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098904/technical?ref_=tt_dt_spec

[_MrC_]

manono, dave

thanks for uncovering another aspect of the NTSC chaos world... I'm so happy to live in a PAL country...

Jokes apart, thanks for the hints, I usually say that AVStoDVD is mostly written by forum experienced users. And it is more and more true.

Now, the question is, if the source is a 59.97 fps, is it ALWAYS true that it is originally a 23.976fps film frames (repeated with the 32323232 pattern)? If yes, the implementation of SelectEven + TDecimate is quite easy, if no, how can I detect that? A question box to the user may be an option ("Is your input title a broadcast capture?" or something like that), but I would prefer to automate the process.



Bye

[manono]

Now, the question is, if the source is a 59.97 fps, is it ALWAYS true that it is originally a 23.976fps film frames (repeated with the 32323232 pattern)?

Hehe, if only it were so easy. No, it's not true. If it was really shot on video then every frame would be different (interlaced 29.97fps bobbed to progressive 59.94fps for broadcast and maybe 720p Blu-Ray). And I suppose there are cases of progressive 29.97fps being converted to 720p for broadcast by repeating every frame once like so - 22222222.

if no, how can I detect that?

I use my eyes, like davexnet. There's probably a way for a program to analyze frames to detect a 'cadence' or repeat pattern and then decide automatically how to treat it, but that's way beyond my knowledge.

Yep, you're lucky to be a PAL man.

[davexnet]

As we saw, the 720p60 could be typically 60 or 24 unique fields. SelectEven() produces an acceptable result
for the 60 unique fields but not so good for the 24 unique fields. It's a bit of a compromise, but perhaps
just create an interlaced DVD with a script that works for both. Preserves the temporal fluidity, at the cost
of a slightly softer picture, something like this:

LoadPlugin("F:\Documents and Settings\Dave Xnet\My Documents\Downloads\dgmpgdec158\DGDecode.dll")
Mpeg2source("F:\Documents and Settings\Dave Xnet\Desktop\movies _temp\20100404225319-js.d2v", info=3,cpu=6)
ColorMatrix(hints=true) #, interlaced=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)#if TFF
Weave()

[_MrC_]

Handing the "false 29.97fps" 720p exception automatically seem to be not viable nowadays.

I would raise the issue (forward the mpg file) to Zenitram, the MediaInfo author, to understand if it can be done anything else than counting the unique frames with VirtualDub.

Actually a frames analyzing routine may be created, something similar to what I use to auto detect chapters points. For the chapters case I check if all the frame pixels are "almost" black, for the duplicated frames, I could scan one horizontal and one vertical pixels line and compare these 2 vectors of 2+ subsequent frames.

Thanks dave for the latest suggestion, but I would prefer to leave a progressive footage progressive.

Meanwhile I can add a new FAQ entry for NTSC jerky conversions...

Bye

MrC

[davexnet]

Handing the "false 29.97fps" 720p exception automatically seem to be not viable nowadays.

I would raise the issue (forward the mpg file) to Zenitram, the MediaInfo author, to understand if it can be done anything else than counting the unique frames with VirtualDub.

Actually a frames analyzing routine may be created, something similar to what I use to auto detect chapters points. For the chapters case I check if all the frame pixels are "almost" black, for the duplicated frames, I could scan one horizontal and one vertical pixels line and compare these 2 vectors of 2+ subsequent frames.

Thanks dave for the latest suggestion, but I would prefer to leave a progressive footage progressive.

Meanwhile I can add a new FAQ entry for NTSC jerky conversions...

Bye

MrC

Thanks MrC,
sounds good. I'll keep looking to see if I can find anything that may help.

Yes, I must admit, creating the interlaced DVD is a special case. I've done it myself manually,
for certain types of footage, but you're right, probably not a good idea for general purpose.

Happy New Year!

Dave

[davexnet]

There's another scheme, used in older Canon cameras, such as the HG10.
Progressive frames are stored as interlaced, because of some limitations in the technology. The situation,
and some samples, are described here:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/dalleyg/collaboration/avchd/readme.html

This is kind of ugly, hopefully it's not used any more.
I assume, looking at the field breakdown,you would use SelectEvery() to restore the progressive frames?
Unless there is a "mode" in one of the other functions?

[digicube]

Is it possible to change the number of titles per page on the DVD menu?

I got this error during DVD authoring of 52 MKV files. It happened on title #33 which means on the third DVD menu page. Too many files?

Segment memory resources --> RELEASED
Local Stack memory --> RELEASED
File i/o structures --> DEALLOCATED

[_MrC_]

@dave

that's another outcome of lack of real video standards... yes, I would agree with your idea to use SelectEvery.

@digicube

to change titles per page, see 'DVD Menu Wizard'/'Template'/'Max Titles per Page'.

About the authoring failure, I would need the complete project log file.



Bye

[digicube]

I have attached the log files. The project completed when without a menu. Could the background image or audio be the problem? I have a feeling it's the image. Maybe 1920x1080 is too big. I'm going to try a previously used image in a completed project to test.

Is there a way for the encoding to run in the background? The encoding windows keep popping up to the front.

[_MrC_]

@digicube

Unfortunately the log is not helpful in this case. The issue is surely within in page 2 of the DVD Menu. The bck image should be ok, because it was already converted and accepted by BatchMux:

Segment #54 - Video File #1         --> E:\DVD\Poyopoyo_0_MenuPage2.bmp
Checking asset for importing as    --> BMP
Image size                         --> (720x480)
Image asset                        --> ACCEPTED

Maybe revise the DVD Menu structure or reduce the titles number (52!) to test various configurations.



Bye

[digicube]

I got my projects to work by disabling background audio on one project and changing the background image on another project. So it must be the background image/audio that's causing this kind of problem. My background image is JPG, maybe I should use BMP. My background audio is AC3, maybe I should use WAV.

[_MrC_]

I got my projects to work by disabling background audio on one project and changing the background image on another project. So it must be the background image/audio that's causing this kind of problem. My background image is JPG, maybe I should use BMP. My background audio is AC3, maybe I should use WAV.

Could you please send me the 2 problematic assets (jpg and ac3 files)? avstodvd@gmail.com



Bye

[digicube]

OK. I narrowed it down to the audio files because I was able to use the same jpg files when using wav files instead of ac3.

[digicube]

Is it possible for AVStoDVD to skip/proceed to the next file when it encounters an error during encoding? Several MKV files have gotten a Avisynth frame error.



Why does AVStoDVD add Audio = Audio.DelayAudio(0.009) on some MKV files? I usually delete this line because the source are in sync, so no need for audio delay. Should I leave this line in place?

[theewizard]

Why does AVStoDVD add Audio = Audio.DelayAudio(0.009) on some MKV files? I usually delete this line because the source are in sync, so no need for audio delay. Should I leave this line in place?

just a guess
But because the video and sound tracks do not start at the same time
that is the difference, the audio start 0.009 after the video
the files are demuxed, before the encoding and FPS changes, then remuxed,
the delay is added to keep them in sync, with out the delay the sound will start 9 thousandths of a second too soon
removing the delay from the script throws the audio out of sync, but the human eye & ear cannot tell its 9 thousandths too soon
that why you do not notice it being out of sync, its too small a difference to be humanly detectable by most people, certainly i can't

[_MrC_]

@digicube

I have tried to use the ac3 files you sent me as DVD background audio without problems. I have directly converted the mkv files you sent me without problems. I fear there are some codecs issue on your system.

1. Are you using ffdshow only or have you installed other codecs?

2. Add the mkv, select 'Codecs'/'Build DirectShow Filters Graph'. Copy and paste here the graph image.

3. What does it happen if you add only one title and create a DVD Menu with one ac3 file you have sent to me?

Audio.DelayAudio(0.009) means a delay correction of 9ms (thanks theewizard ). You can leave that. It is taken from MediaInfo reading, usually very reliable.



Bye

[digicube]

Thanks for pointing out the problem. I use Combined Community Codec Pack CCCP. I'm sure I have other codecs installed too. Is there a software than can uninstall all the codecs I have in my computer so I can install the recommended ones to solve this problem?

[_MrC_]

A good starting point is to uninstall AC3Filter, which is redundant if you have installed ffdshow.

Then do not throw away everything, just use this procedure ('Codecs'/'Build DirectShow Filters Graph') to find out codecs conflicts, if any.



Bye

[digicube]

OK I will uninstall AC3Filter. I installed it because VirtualDub needs it to read AC3.

About the Avisynth frame error on those MKVs, I realized this error comes up when I use textsub() on the .ass subtitle file. Is there an alternative to textsub to hardcode subtitles?


Update: Updated to VSFilter 2.37 but still gave same frame error. Tried assrender but it stalled during encoding and would not complete.

Update2: I moved Textsub line to below Spline16Resize and it no longer gives frame error. I noticed this is where you put it when auto mode is turned on. Before it was above ConvertToYV12 line.

Before

Video = Video.TextSub()
Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.Spline16Resize(720,480)

After

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12()
Video = Video.Spline16Resize(720,480)
Video = Video.TextSub()

Update3: The video turned out to be messed up after the frame where the error occurred but using threads=1 in ffvideosource solves it.