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  1. Member
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    Hello everyone:

    Here's what happened.

    I was using my PC to surf the net. Suddenly, the mouse stopped moving and I could not do anything. So I restarted my computer. Lights turned on and flashed, the hard drive made the usual noise indicating that it started running then...nothing. Total silence. On the monitor screen, there was just a blank dark screen. Absolutely nothing.

    I pressed the restart button again. The same thing happened. After a short time (15 seconds), there was an alarm sound (I think it came from the motherboard).

    I turned off the PC and started trouble shooting.

    First, I suspected the power supply and replaced it with a brand new one. Same thing happened.

    Second, I suspected the hard drive (it's a +7 years-old IBM). I took it out and plugged this same hard drive to another PC. The hard drive ran just fine. Windows was loaded and everything worked just fine. At least, I know I have not lost anything that is on this drive.

    I now turn my attention to the motherboard. Again, it's +7-years-old and it's a Soyo.

    I am testing my RAM now.

    What should I test next? CPU? The whole motherboard?

    Please help!

    Thank you.
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  2. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    look to see if there's any caps on the mobo that's burned out. check the video card by using another video card if you have one. i'd suspect the mobo may have died or something.
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    Hi budz:

    Thanks. I think the mobo died, too.

    I just tested the RAMs. I have 3 RAMs (275 MB each) installed on the mobo. I took all 3 out and re-inserted one by one in the primary slot. The same thing happened. It's highly unlikely all 3 RAMs died.

    I have another mobo (a Pentium IV) to replace this current mobo (a Pentium III). I will try it to see if it works.

    Thanks for your timely help.
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    Try reseating VC, may have come lose....
    " Who needs Google, my wife knows everything"
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    Thanks, t0nee1.

    I did, and same problem.

    I have one question regarding replacing the mobo.

    When I connected my first PC hard drive (my 1st post) to my second PC, Windows loaded fine. After loading, Windows started installing numerous drives because it found a different mobo (in my second hard drive). At this time, I just stopped and quit because I did not want to use my hard drive in this second PC.

    Now, when I replace the mobo (a Pentium III) in my first PC with a new mobo (a Pentium IV). I think Windows in my hard drive will start installing new drives for this Pentium IV mobo.

    My question to you is: will I have to use my Windows 98SE disc (I still keep my disc) in order to install the new drives?

    Thanks
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  6. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    If it is indeed a P3 MB, probably time for a upgrade.

    Most all MBs these days use DDR 2 memory. There may not be that much to salvage from your old PC. The hard drive and maybe the optical drives. But all the rest would be mostly out of date.

    If you can afford it, it's a good time to go with a dual core CPU and MB. Even RAM is fairly inexpensive.

    JMO, but I would leave W98 far behind. It was a good OS in it's time, but that has passed. Even W2000 is a major upgrade. I don't have fond memories of W98. I had to re-install the OS about 4 times a year to keep up the original performance. XP is a lot easier to set up and use. And it maintains it's performance quite a bit longer.
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    Hi redwudz,

    It is indeed time for me to update. Luckily, my late brother gave me a PIV mobo before he passed away. I will try to use it with this current hard drive.

    What do you think about my question on "using Windows 98SE disc to install drives for the new mobo"? Is this the correct thing t do?
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    My current hard drive's OS is Windows 98SE. So, in order to save everything I have been keeping in that drive, I will have to use Windows 98SE.

    I also have several peripherals (external hard drive, scan machine, etc.) that do not have drivers for Windows 2000 or XP.

    That's why I have been keepinf this Windows 98SE.

    I do have a laptop with WinXP (also from late brother). I hardly use it because I don't have the need to do so. Eventually, I think I will have to use it.

    BTW, in WinXP, what is the way to bypass the administration keys?
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  9. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    If W98 is all you have or can afford, use it. But, as mentioned, MS has come a long way since that OS was king. It still does most things that XP does, but it takes a bit more work with drivers and it doesn't do as well with errors or error recovery. And modern drivers are difficult to find for it.

    It all depends on your needs. But DDR 2 memory and other 'pluses' of newer motherboards and CPU's make quite a difference in performance. This is a fairly good time to go with a new MB and a advanced system. Memory prices are fairly low and CPUs are reasonably priced. Since this is mostly a video processing site, it's hard to recommend older motherboards and OS systems.

    But again, it depends on your needs and your finances.

    EDIT: Bypassing XP keys. Not sure what you mean. But if you need to change passwords, etc. Maybe a Google search. Most passwords can be removed or reset. You may have to look around a bit.
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    My laptop (given by my late brother) has WinXP. My brother set up everything, including the administration password. I have not used it for a long time and have now forgotten the password.

    I remember once I forgot it, my brother told me how to start in Safe Mode in order to go in to change the password. He also told me that all files created under that password wiould become unprotected. My brother did demonstrate the whole process to me.

    Now, he's no longer with me. And, I forgot my password and the process, again. I have been trying to figure out the process of how to reset the administration password without success.

    Regarding Windows 98SE. Please tell me if this is correct.

    When I connect the new mobo (PIV) to my current hard drive (that was used with a PIII mobo), the Windows 98 in my hard drive will recognize that it is being connecetd to a new mobo and it will try to install a number of drivers.

    Am I supposed to insert my Windows 98 disc into my CD ROM to install those drivers?
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  11. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Move forward and leave windows 98se behind. You have a obsolete cpu and mobo and it would be wise to upgrade as redwudz suggested. If you can't upgrade the components then at least upgrade to windows xp home. Dual core processors and ddr2 memory is fairly inexpensive at this time. IMHO there's more headaches when you use the windows 98se because you'll have to make sure you have all the drivers for your mobo, etc.

    You mentioned having a PIII processor but the mobo your brother left you is a P4. I don't think you'll be able to use a PIII processor on a P4 mobo.
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    By the sound of what your saying , about what your late brother showed you on passwords in safe mode .

    It would indicate a default setup for xp , where administrative account is not displayed in normal mode .

    In safe mode , enter the administrators account which is now visible ... should password be required , you have a little more work to cure problem .

    If no password required , you can then go to control panel > user accounts > click on required account > change password ... should sort problem out .

    If its above , admin account is password protected , it can be reset , or cleared , but you must understand exactly what the tool doing the job is reporting , or you have to repeat the procedure again if it didn't work the first time .

    ---

    Someone brought me a laptop in a similar pickle ... bios / os / account ... all password protected ... took about 30 minutes to clear all .

    What you need is : http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/

    Vista64 now supported .
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    "You mentioned having a PIII processor but the mobo your brother left you is a P4."

    I did not say that.

    I have in my current PC: PIII motherboard with its own PIII processor, and a hard drive (let's call it HD1) that has Windows 98SE installed.

    I also have a PIV motherboard with its own PIV processor.

    When I connect my HD1 to this new PIV motherboard (with its own PIV attached), Windows 98 in my HD1 will load. After loading, Windows will start the installations of numerous drivers for this PIV motherboard.

    My question is: during these driver installations, is it correct for me to insert the Windows 98SE disc in the CD ROM? Or, I have to use some other discs (what discs?)?
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    Thanks, Bjs. I'll try it.
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  15. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by moviebuff2
    "You mentioned having a PIII processor but the mobo your brother left you is a P4."

    I did not say that.

    I have in my current PC: PIII motherboard with its own PIII processor, and a hard drive (let's call it HD1) that has Windows 98SE installed.

    I also have a PIV motherboard with its own PIV processor.

    When I connect my HD1 to this new PIV motherboard (with its own PIV attached), Windows 98 in my HD1 will load. After loading, Windows will start the installations of numerous drivers for this PIV motherboard.

    My question is: during these driver installations, is it correct for me to insert the Windows 98SE disc in the CD ROM? Or, I have to use some other discs (what discs?)?

    No reason to stick in your 98SE disc during the driver installations since windows will be all messed up because it will have drivers from the old PIII mobo.

    If you're going to use the hd from your PIII pc then it would be best to reinstall 98SE because it will have new drivers from that P4 mobo. It's better to do reformat that hd from your PIII pc then do a clean install of 98SE! Just my 2 cents!
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  16. Member
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    I got it.

    Everything I have in my current HD1 is gone even the hard drive does not die.

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    My files in hard drive 1 (HD1) are not yet lost!

    Ok, let me explain what I have done.

    I have a second PC that has a PIV mobo (with its PIV processor). This PC's hard drive (HD2) runs perfectly, without any problems.

    I set the hard drive of my first PC (HD1) to slave. Then, I connected this hard drive to the PIV mobo, using the same IDE that the HD2 is using. Both HD1 and HD2 use the same OS: Windows 98SE. HD2 is set as Master, HD1 is set as slave.

    I turned on the computer. HD2 loaded Windows. Everything works just fine. Windows Explore shows I have 2 additional drives. These are the 2 drives that are in HD1.

    I just opened several files in my HD1 without any problems.

    I think I will burn all the files I want to keep onto DVDs. Then I will reformat the HD1 and start from the beginning.

    Thank you everyone for your quick replies and advices.
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  18. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    I think I will burn all the files I want to keep onto DVDs. Then I will reformat the HD1 and start from the beginning.
    Glad you got it all worked out! You'll have a better pc by reformatting that hard drive with a fresh install of 98SE.
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  19. Member
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    If your going to stick with win98 on those systems , rush on over to each motherboards manufacture ASAP ... and check for drivers for current os choice availability ... if so ... grab them NOW ... before they get thrown from server .

    www.driverguide.com is a backup , although it will show multiple packages from users ... some work , some don't ... its pot luck if first downloaded package works as expected for older hardware ... pci s3 video chipsets are a pain in the rear .
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    Hi everyone

    Done! All files that I want to keep have been burnt on 2 DVDs and I have tested (opened/played) many of them on both my second PC and on my stand-alone DVD player.

    So, this hard drive is ready to be reformatted when I replace the dead mobo with a new one.

    A thought came to my mind: why not partition the hard drive into 3 drives, instead of just 2 drives, for dual operating system installation.

    The first drive (C) is for WinXP. The second drive (D) is for Windows 98SE. The third drive (E) is for miscellaneous files.

    By that way, when I boot the computer, it will ask me to choose the OS. I will be able to work with my old peripherals (scanner, external drive, etc.) using Windows 98SE. I will also take advange of the improvements in WinXP.

    I am not sure if it matters which OS I should install first. I remember vaguely hearing my brother mentioned something about "forward compatibility and not backward compatibility" between these OSs.

    Would someone please help me on this dual-system installation?

    Thanks
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  21. Dual-boot is a bad thing. Avoid it like the plague, unless absolutely necessary. In your case, it is not.

    There is no reason that your files would not be readable or usable under a new OS. A Word file is a Word file. All you need is Word installed on the new boot OS to read the file, the same or a newer version. This goes for all files, of all types. You just need an installed program to read it, the OS does not care.

    You might need the Win98 CD for driver install on the new Mobo. However, the disk is so old that it likely will not contain any drivers, or they will need updating. There may well be some hardware items that simply will not work under the old, outdated, OS. There is lots of software which will no longer work under Win98. Upgrade and leave the past in the past.

    Your XP sounds like XP home. Tap the F8 key while booting, select Safe Mode, type in Administrator with no password, this will then allow you to set the password for all User accounts. If there is an Administrator password, you will need a work-around program, many available. Also, try "alpha".

    There is no such thing as a 275 MB RAM chip. 256?
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    I did not know that dual-booting is that bad. My brother had dual-booting in all his computers without any problems.

    Of course, the new OS WinXP will read my files. But does it "read" my peripherals?

    My problem is that I have several machines like a Umax scanner Astro 1220P, an HD45 external hard drive case, etc. WinXP does not have drivers for these machines. I already contacted the manufacturers. They all told me that for these old models, they didn't provide drivers. Naturally, these manufacturers want me to spend more money to buy their new models. That's disgusting! And I refuse to give in that type of marketing tactics.

    Besides, what should I do with all those machines that are still working just fine? Throw them away and trash the earth?

    That's the reason why I have been using Windows 98SE. As long as these machines work, I will keep Windows 98SE.

    I made a mistake on the RAMs. It's 256 each. I remember the total for 3 of them is somewhere around 750MB.

    Thank you for the advice on Administration password. I will try that.
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    Done! Password changed for WinXP.

    Thanks to all of you.

    Here's what one should do (administrators, please keep this post in case my Alzheimer worsens!):

    1) Boot the computer

    2) Depress F8 key. This will allow you to choose Safe Mode.

    3) While in Safe Mode, open Control Panel.

    4) Select User Name

    5) Click on the user name of which you want to reset (change) the password.

    6) Click on "change password". Windows will give you a warning that changing password will invalidate some encrypted files of this user.

    7) If you don't care about these encrypted files, continue and change your password to a new one.

    I MUST say loud and clear that this forum is the best I have ever encountered.

    For months, I tried to change the password in WinXP.

    I went to Fry's (agggrrr....) and was told emphatically, matter-of-fact-ly that there was no way and that I would have to reformat the entire computer. !@#$%^&*

    Here I got the help I need to solve this issue in less than a day! The WinXP in my computer says "Professional". So I guess the Safe Mode works for the Professional version too.

    THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

    BTW, I found at Fry's a software called "Systems Commander version 9" that will allow me to install multiple OSs (all Windows, Linux, Solaris (?), etc.) either from scratch or on a hard drive that already has an operating system.

    The software is made by a company named Avanquest.

    This software certainly looks interesting since it will allow me to use both OSs. There are many new softwares that I want to use and they require Windows 2000 or WinXP. But I also have many machines that are not supported (no drivers) by WinXP.

    I will have to do some research on this software to find out how reliable it is. I hope this will solve my dilemma.

    Cheers!
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  24. XP home only allows Admin login in Safe Mode, Pro works either way, Safe Mode not necessary. But for Any XP, doing it in Safe Mode will work. Password crack programs easily available.

    Dual-boot is a problem waiting to happen. Sure, some have used it with no issues. There are folks who enjoy a coast-to-coast trip in a Model T Ford, or riding 20 miles on a folding bicycle. It is something that, as a professional PC technician, I strongly recommend avoiding unless there is some really good need. Consider a second PC, or what is much easier is seperate Hard drives and just change the boot order in the Bios. Even this carries some risk.

    For Business use, this is a no go. Either use a seperate PC or have the boot HD in cartridges so the unused OS drive is physically disabled and cannot be written to.

    Most folks do not typically encounter damaged partition tables, I do. When a disproportionate percentage of the most badly damaged have a single factor in common, this indicates an increased risk factor. Partition management software, specifically including the one mentioned but not limited to that manufacturer, creates a higher risk factor. Dual-boot is not necessarily as bad, BUT someone using dual-boot is somewhat more likely to attempt usage of partition management or editing utilities, and these often cause the problem.

    I absolutely refuse to do such an installation unless totall lack of warranty is put in writing. It is a bad, bad idea.
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37
    Dual-boot is a problem waiting to happen. Sure, some have used it with no issues. There are folks who enjoy a coast-to-coast trip in a Model T Ford, or riding 20 miles on a folding bicycle. It is something that, as a professional PC technician, I strongly recommend avoiding unless there is some really good need. Consider a second PC, or what is much easier is seperate Hard drives and just change the boot order in the Bios. Even this carries some risk.

    For Business use, this is a no go. Either use a seperate PC or have the boot HD in cartridges so the unused OS drive is physically disabled and cannot be written to.

    Most folks do not typically encounter damaged partition tables, I do. When a disproportionate percentage of the most badly damaged have a single factor in common, this indicates an increased risk factor. Partition management software, specifically including the one mentioned but not limited to that manufacturer, creates a higher risk factor. Dual-boot is not necessarily as bad, BUT someone using dual-boot is somewhat more likely to attempt usage of partition management or editing utilities, and these often cause the problem.

    I absolutely refuse to do such an installation unless totall lack of warranty is put in writing. It is a bad, bad idea.
    Have to partially disagree with your last couple posts in this thread. Since 1995 or so, each PC I've had has been multi-boot. (Not simply dual-boot, multiple OSes, and multiple boot partitions -- typically two of each, because I believe in having "Maintenance" Partitions.) They are mediated by partition management software. They are business systems. The "really good need" is that I truly despise Windows, yet it is nearly indispensable and unavoidable, isn't it ? I've had no problems of the type you describe, and can't believe I'm that lucky. OTOH, I'd agree that this type of setup is not really suitable for the casual -- and often clueless -- user. There is way too much more you need to know and need to do in order to set it up and to run it, in the first place, and then to keep out of trouble. For example, I clone entire hard drives regularly as part of the backup regimen, in addition to partition backups . . . and that may have something to do with not having needed to rely on one of the cloned drives, so far. But the extra complications and upkeep get to be a hassle after awhile, so I can see the advantages in moving to a separate-hard-drives arrangement.

    If you are rolling systems out the door for a living, I can understand resisting the multi's: who'd want to have to support them -- under warranty, or charging extra $$ by the hour ?
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this gradually disappearing American art form.
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  26. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I don't like partitions for much of anything. To me, they're nothing better than a folder. If you have drive problems., you still have drive problems, no matter how many partitions you use on that drive.

    But for dual boot, I don't see those same problems with multiple boot drives. Besides, it's a good use of all those 80GB hard drives that are floating about.

    JMO.
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  27. Member Webster's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by redwudz
    Besides, it's a good use of all those 80GB hard drives that are floating about.

    JMO.
    How many do you have?
    Last count I have 8....

    @OP, you could alway get one of those removable tray and install each OS to a different drive. That way, if you want to run Win98, just pop in the Win98 drive and if you favor WinXP, take the Win98 tray out and pop in the WinXP disk.
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  28. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I think I'm down to about five 80GB drives. I stuff them in computers I build and call them 'Backup'. I found a 500MB on the shelf the other day. Don't know what to do with that.

    I was experimenting with a dual boot setup that uses a switch to connect or disconnect the Master jumpers on two hard drives. I found if I have the switch also hit the reset terminal on the computer as it switches, I could live switch between OSs without shutting down. Only partially successful with Ubuntu and W2000 on separate boot drives, as it would get stuck on one or the other OS most times.
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  29. It is not a matter of luck.

    It is a matter of being ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the user understands what types of softwares carry the possibility of not dealing correctly with the foreign partition structure, and what procedures must be followed to be sure that those softwares do not write to the foreign drive or mess with its partition structure in any way.

    The percentage of users, even experienced IT pros, who can be counted on to avoid these problems is vanishingly small.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with an Indy 500 race car. either. However, putting the average person, and even the above-average, exceptional driver, into such a car, is a bad idea.

    Perhaps if you can take several hours to evaluate the individual's skills, a risky procedure may become more acceptable. But the simple fact is, it is More Risky, drives are cheap, and most people do not have the necessary knowledge to avoid very serious problems.
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