Which DVD Recorder would you recommend?

[next]

Can any of the Toshiba hdd models do frame accurate edits on the hdd and preserve that accuracy in a high speed copy to dvd? My Pioneer 531H manual says it cannot preserve the accuracy of a frame accurate edit if copied high speed.

My understanding is that you can get frame accurate editing in VR mode - with all DVD recorders that offer VR mode recording. And that you can get GOP accurate editing in Video Mode - again for recorders that offer editing for Video Mode recordings.

As far has high speed dubbing from an HDD to an optical disc. With VR mode the edits should be accurate to the frame.

With edits done on an HDD for Video Mode they can shift up to .5 seconds when high speed dubbed from an HDD to an optical disc. How much of this .5 second shift depends on where the original Video Mode edits were placed. This is more of a limitation of editing in Video Mode as opposed to a particular brand of DVD recorder.

The potential for up to a .5 second shift (Video Mode) when high speed dubbed from a HDD to an optical disc is noted in the Toshiba manual (XS series manuals)

[FulciLives]

Well hopefully that Asian line (or the Canadian line) of Pioneer DVD recorders will still be available by the time I get the money. I'd hate to get stuck buying after market used or refurbished or worse yet ... Panasonic

[lordsmurf]

Also what are people's opinions on "refurbished" DVD Recorders, for instance Toshiba? What does this mean? DJL

1. Refurbs are not necessarily customer returns.
2. It already broke once (or never worked to begin with), and is less likely to break again than a brand new machine. Various manufacturer flaws and defects tend to be fixed at this point. New items don't have this benefit.
3. Sometimes it's the only way to get specific equipment.
4. It saves money, in most cases.
5. The negative stigma given to "used" or "refurbished" is elitist and retarded. New equipment can often be worse than a good, solid-quality used item. I've owned used cars, used professional cameras and lenses, refurb DVD recorders and laptops .... and in each case, what I bought was far superior to new items available at the time, especially in the same price range.

I want quality. I'm all for saving money. If the item is still in like-new or excellent condition, who cares if you're the second owner, or buying a factory defect that was later repaired, or using the store demo? It's not like it's covered in bubonic plague or snot, it's often visibly the same as a new-in-box item.

edited for typos

[FulciLives]

I guess I am either elitist and/or retarded.

I'll leave that for everyone else to decided LOL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I also have a germ phobia of sorts 8)

[lordsmurf]

I'm more afraid of Walmart items, than an online refurb purchase, when it comes to germs. Lots of low-class bring in their children, who rub against and touch everything in sight. Yuck!

[trhouse]

This is more of a limitation of editing in Video Mode as opposed to a particular brand of DVD recorder

Thanks for the Toshiba information. I was curious if they improved on what other hdd recorders are doing. One problem with frame accurate editing in video mode is that the edits can create GOP's ( groups of pictures ) which do not conform to standard. Computer software solves this by re-encoding around the edit points. This does not appear to have been incorporated into any standalones at least where high speed copy is concerned. My recollection is that a GOP must be less then or equal to 15 or 18 depending on the frame rate.

[DJL82]

Lordsmurf,

I thank you for your advice in regards to refurbished items. I always thought it's better to stay clear of them, but your reasons have changed my mind.

DJL

[Seeker47]

[quote="FulciLives"]

I plan to get the DVR-340H myself

Is that an HDD model ? (I may be confusing the # with a much earlier U.S. model that was DVD-burning only.)

[trhouse]

It is a hard drive model and you can buy them in the US for $409 at this link.

http://www.mindlogic.com/MSDVDR_PION.shtml

I called these guys and they have converted these units to work on US 120VAC but there is a problem. "John" who answered the phone said these recorders cannot receive US broadcast TV because the tuners are for foreign broadcast standards.

I have no objection to Panasonics but when they sell at these prices for used units...forget it!

[oldfart13]

Futureshop (Canda) and/or Best Buy (Canada) have the following:

Pioneer DVR-650HK w/250 Gig HDD $500CAD

Pioneer DVR-550HK w/160 Gig HDD $490CAD

Sony RDR-HX750 w/160 Gig HDD $500CAD

Panasonic DRMESH55S w/200 Gig HDD $550CAD

LG LRH-880 w/80 Gig HDD $250CAD

LG LRA-890 w/250 Gig HDD $400CAD

Toshiba no longer sells a HDD model in Canada. Most places I went to today didn't even have recorders anymore. Going to be tough going if you are looking for replacement equipment....

[lacywest]

The Toshiba RD-XS34, RD-XS35 and RD-XS55 are the "good" models. All other models should be avoided including the D-R400 model (which has no built-in HDD and lacks bitrate control etc.)

Good luck finding any of those three brand new ... the so-called "in stock" links provided above all say "not available" when you click on them.

I knew all that ... which is why I was telling you to just go with that Asian Pioneer (the DVR-340H) model. At least it is brand new and has a built-in HDD and does all you want ... exceptionally well.

I think I'll bow out of this thread now before I sound like a broken record LOL

Good luck to whatever you end up buying!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

http://www.world-import.com/dvr-340h.htm

The DVD made on this model will be all regions you can play it on any DVD player in the World, even on PAL DVD players. You can send the DVD made on this recorder to a PAL or NTSC country.

The World Wide version Pioneer DVR-340H opens your world! It lets you record your favorite TV shows* or home movies on its own internal hard disk memory or onto blank DVD discs. Plus you can do this in any of the World's most popular video formats - NTSC or PAL! Now you now can send DVD movies overseas or make them for domestic use. Imagine recordings that combine tape-free convenience with DVD ultra-clean picture and sound quality! Camcorder owners will love making pristine DVD copies of videos for easy playback, or for sharing with friends and family. Plus, the DVR-340H is a great CODE FREE ALL ZONE DVD player too! Also with progressive-scan output for an improved picture with an HD-compatible TV.

[FulciLives]

http://www.220-electronics.com/

I already posted this link at least once but now two other people have posted links to the Pioneer DVR-340H however I have yet to see anyone selling it cheaper than 220-Electronics.

So just a reminder since apparently some people missed my link before.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[StuR]

Quick note about refurb. I was put off in the past by the thought it was basically faulty but now I look at it diffently.
Firstly all stuff goes out of date or you find better suited stuff, the cheaper you buy it the less you loss when you sell it on 2nd hand. You make your money when you buy not sell, as they say. If the refurb has 12mth warranty like a new one then it shouldn't be an issue. The big advantage is if you do some research on the model your considering you may find it has a problem which could turn up later i.e. my JVC MV300 has a problem with the DVD drive which is sadly likely to fail, OK within 12mths but after that your at JVC's mercy. I did look for a refurb which had definatly had this problem dealt with but ended up having to buy new (cheaply though). Its worth considering this point as a good refurb is likely to have the latest firmware sorted out etc.

[NightFire]

Lordsmurf,

I thank you for your advice in regards to refurbished items. I always thought it's better to stay clear of them, but your reasons have changed my mind.

DJL

The only draw back for Refurbs (had to be repaired refurbs) is that the warranty is much less (usually). I don't mind buying used stuff on eBay (or wherever) especially if the price is right. Most of time the user has had it for a few years so you know it's not a lemon and should work for many more years. The only downside is you can't be sure how the user used it (over worked, mistreated).

[SCDVD]

I agree that refurbished units can often be a good deal. Most reputable manufacturers do reasonable testing and needed repairs on "refurbished" products. Unfortunately there are few that have a more sleazy policy. They basically don't do anything until they see the unit a second time. They realize some returned units have no problems so their philosophy is to "let the customer do the testing". If it comes back the second time they look at it. Just an FYI.

[Seeker47]

http://www.world-import.com/dvr-340h.htm

This seems to have most of the features of the 640, plus the international features. It does apparently require adapter plugs for some connections, an extra cost converter if you want to send a PAL signal to an NTSC tv, and it drops back to the 80G. size HDD of the earlier model 520. I don't know how good a substitute the World Import warranty would be vs. the Pioneer warranty. (Maybe it's a wash.) And I would like to know if the HDD can be replaced with a larger one -- not so easily, but it's doable -- as in the case of the prior North American models. This would likely require a different Service Disk.

[trhouse]

There is one repaired or refurbished unit I would avoid if you are not technically inclined, that is the JVC DR-M10S US and Canadian version only. This unit has an interface problem which brings about a lockout of the unit with the message "loading" displayed. This problem is common to units in all regions can be serviced and JVC does so. The US and Canadian version have a different power supply which runs very hot. The high temperature causes premature aging of the power supply and changes in voltage that bring on the "loading" problem more frequently than in units for other regions.

Having seen the repair JVC makes to US units, it was a bit dismaying to see that they replace that power supply with exactly the same one so statistically, the unit will have a higher failure rate once more. Please note this does not apply to any other JVC unit or M10's made for other regions which have an improved power supply design.

[lordsmurf]

Warranties are very often wasted expenses or feel-good pieces of paper, and nothing more. I would not buy something based on warranty alone, buy it on the merits of how well it performs the functions you desire. Warranty should be one of the lowest considerations.

[KeepItSimple]

1. Refurbs are not necessarily customer returns.
2. It already broke once (or never worked to begin with), and is less likely to break again than a brand new machine. Various manufacturer flaws and defects tend to be fixed at this point. New items don't have this benefit.
3. Sometimes it's the only way to get specific equipment.
4. It saves money, in most cases.
5. The negative stigma given to "used" or "refurbished" is elitist and retarded. New equipment can often be worse than a good, solid-quality used item. I've owned used cars, used professional cameras and lenses, refurb DVD recorders and laptops .... and in each case, what I bought was far superior to new items available at the time, especially in the same price range.

I want quality. I'm all for saving money. If the item is still in like-new or excellent condition, who cares if you're the second owner, or buying a factory defect that was later repaired, or using the store demo? It's not like it's covered in bubonic plague or snot, it's often visibly the same as a new-in-box item.

edited for typos

I know this is an old post but it's worth repeating. I couldn't agree more. Thanks LS.