If I don't have 1080p HDTV, it's pointless to buy an HDDVD/Blue-Ray, right?

[the_importer]

A standard DVD player plugged in HDMI and upconverting to 720p or 1080i will give me more or less the same resolution as an HD-DVD or Blue-Ray at 720p or 1080i with HDMI on my non-1080p LCD, correct?


Thank you

[yoda313]

Well it would be future proofing if nothing more. But don't forget both next gen players are upconverting in there own rights.

One option to consider would be to buy a playstation 3. Then you'd have a bluray player right now. BUT you'd have it as a gaming console should bluray go the way of the laserdisc.

[manono]

...correct?

No.

[the_importer]

Well it would be future proofing if nothing more. But don't forget both next gen players are upconverting in there own rights.

One option to consider would be to buy a playstation 3. Then you'd have a bluray player right now. BUT you'd have it as a gaming console should bluray go the way of the laserdisc.

Well I purchased my HDTV less than a year ago, so it will be a while before I buy a new one, so I would guess that these High Def players will go down in price by the time I buy a 1080p LCD.

Also, I wouldn't want to buy a console to be used as a DVD player simply because I don't have confidence in either MS or SONY to make a stable console that won't brake down. The 360 (just like the 1st XBOX) has overheating issues and although there hasn't been enough PS3 sales to make a good break down %, PS2 break down % spoke for themselves.

Having to send out a game console out for repair is one thing, but when it's also your movie player, well that just sucks cause you're out 2 media devices.

[the_importer]

...correct?

No.

I love how the Internet has greatly reduce communication

[Guiboche]

...correct?

No.

I love how the Internet has greatly reduce communication

He gave you the super simple, super short answer. He is 100% correct. "No" is the right answer.

[FulciLives]

Compared to standard DVD the HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray format(s) will look better on any HDTV even if that HDTV only supports 720p and/or 1080i ... in other words you don't need 1080p to have a better than standard DVD image.

Now you could argue that if all you have is a TV capable of no more than 480i or even 480p that it isn't worth buying HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray but you say that you have a HDTV so you will get better image quality from HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray than from standard DVD.

Of course you won't get 100% the quality that these formats can offer since you don't have 1080p but like you said that is something to look forward to.

See I'm in the same boat if you will. I bought a HDTV at the end of 2005 and I'm still paying on it (until the end of this year when it will be paid off). My HDTV does 1080i but not 1080p and that irks me a bit but that won't stop me from going HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray.

I haven't yet but that's another story ... mostly one about lack of money and the format war etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[the_importer]

Compared to standard DVD the HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray format(s) will look better on any HDTV even if that HDTV only supports 720p and/or 1080i ... in other words you don't need 1080p to have a better than standard DVD image.

Now you could argue that if all you have is a TV capable of no more than 480i or even 480p that it isn't worth buying HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray but you say that you have a HDTV so you will get better image quality from HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray than from standard DVD.

Of course you won't get 100% the quality that these formats can offer since you don't have 1080p but like you said that is something to look forward to.

See I'm in the same boat if you will. I bought a HDTV at the end of 2005 and I'm still paying on it (until the end of this year when it will be paid off). My HDTV does 1080i but not 1080p and that irks me a bit but that won't stop me from going HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray.

I haven't yet but that's another story ... mostly one about lack of money and the format war etc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Yes, the war is also putting a brick wall in front of consumers. I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to pay for a High Def player, but pay only once. They would be pissed if they purchased the one that gets it's ass kicked, I know I would. Also, I don't know about other cities, but in the areas of Montreal, HDDVDs and Blue-Rays movies are not a dime a dozen in video stores or retail stores. Even big stores like Wal-Mart only have the end shelf space for their High Def movies:



BTW, do you have any quality pictures which could show me the difference between 720p on a regular DVD with HDMI and a 720p High Def DVD with HDMI (same picture side by side)? I can only find cheap resolution and that doesn't help.

Thank you

[FulciLives]

I can't do this myself as I do not have HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray but if someone does then it would be kewl if that person could do the following:

Take a movie that is on standard DVD and post a straight screen grab of it i.e., 720x480

Then take the same movie in either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format and post a straight screen grab of it i.e., 1920x1080

Then maybe post some "follow up" pictures such as:

1.) The standard DVD image upsized to 720p and 1080p
2.) The Hi-Def image downsized to 720p and even 480p

All that would be very kewl.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

This isn't quite what you had in mind, but it compares the DVD with the HD-DVD:

http://www.zonadvd.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=707

You won't get that HD-DVD sharpness and detail and clarity with an upconverting DVD player (as much as I love my Oppo).

[Rich86]

My humble opinion . . .

If you are running a 720p tv, I would not roll the dice on the winner of the Sony/Toshiba money/format war at this time. I would stick to widescreen/anamorphic dvd's with a good upconverting player. That is my approach (Sharp 1080p TV + Sony upconverting player) and it is working out great so far. I am quite pleased with my movie watching, and although I am sure it would be even better with a true 1080p source - I'll live until these idiots settle on a single format for the foreseeable future.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Well I have a 720p HDTV and I can notice the difference between my Oppo 970(SD) and my Toshiba A20(HD),the Toshiba also uses a better upconverting chip(ABT).Blu-Ray and HD DVD will be around for years so you might as well try HD,most stores in the US have a 30 day return policy if you aren't happy.

[edDV]

The 1080p downscale should look better at 1366x768 than the 480p upscale but so what? What is that worth? Why buy in at top prices when all this will be cheap in a year or so. Remember the early DVD players that sold for $700? Who would take one of those for free now? I've got one and it won't play DVDR discs.

[MOVIEGEEK]

The 1080p downscale should look better at 1366x768 than the 480p upscale but so what? What is that worth? Why buy in at top prices when all this will be cheap in a year or so. Remember the early DVD players that sold for $700? Who would take one of those for free now? I've got one and it won't play DVDR discs.

Some HD DVD players will be ~$200US by Christmas and Toshiba is giving away 7 HD DVD's with their new A3x series,why say no when it feels so good to say yes to HD?
BTW:my Toshiba A20 plays every kind of disc including DL.

[edDV]

Remember when a CD writer cost $1500?

[the_importer]

Indeed. I bet by the time I buy a 1080p HDTV, they'll give away a free High Def DVD player with it.

[j1d10t]

I just made the upgrade to HD DVD, and my HDTV does not support 1080p - only 720p and 1080i. I went with the Xbox 360 HD DVD player, since I already have an Xbox 360, and I can hook it up to my computer - double duty for one price. My local Target store was having it on sale for $170, and Microsoft is having a deal where you get 5 free HD DVDs by mail (aside from the King Kong HD DVD you get with it). And WOW , I can see a big difference between standard DVD and HD DVD - my standard DVD player does not up-convert, so I can't really say anything about the difference between up-converted DVD Vs. HD DVD/Blu-Ray.

But even if your TV does not support 1080p I think you will still notice a big difference in image quality.

My 2cents

[FulciLives]

The perception of the increased quality of HD-DVD and/or Blue-Ray also has a lot to do with the size of the HDTV and the distance that you sit from it.

In my case I have a 51" 16x9 WS HDTV and I sit approximately 6 1/2 to 7 feet away ... not because I am blind per se but due to the size of the room. I can't get further away even if I wanted to get further away.

I've never seen HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray on my HDTV but I've seen broadcast HDTV via the built-in tuner and via my Comcast cable box and there is a HUGE difference between that and standard DVD Video. My TV accepts 720p and 1080i but everything gets resized to 1080i with the built-in scaler. It also has built-in 3:2 pulldown removal.

My HDTV has a single HDCP HDMI input but so far I've only used the component inputs for DVD Video and the cable box.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jman98]

This is why I would not buy an HD-DVD or BluRay player if I didn't have a 1080p TV:
1) Your TV will downconvert the signal to 720p or 1080i, whatever your TV supports. While I think that you might not notice a difference at 1080i, you might notice a difference at 720p.
2) Players will continue to drop in price. The longer you wait, the cheaper they will be.
3) Players may eventually contain chips to support H.264 playback from DVD discs. They don't at this time, but a lot of people would like to have this.
4) Current HD-DVD/BluRay players don't support any of the older video formats like VCD and SVCD. No Divx support at this time either. You might care about some of those formats.

[j1d10t]

FulciLives: I've got pretty much the same set-up in my family room. 51 inch widescreen HDTV, and the couch is about 6-7 feet back from it, because of the size of the room. Because of the layout/size of the room that is the only way I can have it aranged.

The HD signals I get through my cable company are pretty good, but they do get blocky in some (fast moving) scenes. Whereas the HD DVDs do not. That's the main difference that I've noticed with the movies I've watched so far.

[FulciLives]

FulciLives: I've got pretty much the same set-up in my family room. 51 inch widescreen HDTV, and the couch is about 6-7 feet back from it, because of the size of the room. Because of the layout/size of the room that is the only way I can have it aranged.

The HD signals I get through my cable company are pretty good, but they do get blocky in some (fast moving) scenes. Whereas the HD DVDs do not. That's the main difference that I've noticed with the movies I've watched so far.

Well that was my point ... if I can see the difference in broadcast HDTV over standard DVD Video then I can only imagine how much better HD-DVD / Blu-Ray will look.

BTW I have a Hitachi CRT Rear Projection 16x9 WS 51" HDTV I bought in 2005 (does 1080i). What is your TV? I'd love to get a Sharp AQUOS LCD 16x9 WS 52" but damn they are expensive but they look SO nice (plus do 1080p).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[j1d10t]

BTW I have a Hitachi CRT Rear Projection 16x9 WS 51" HDTV I bought in 2005 (does 1080i). What is your TV? I'd love to get a Sharp AQUOS LCD 16x9 WS 52" but damn they are expensive but they look SO nice (plus do 1080p).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I got a Sony 51 inch widescreen rear projection back in 2002 - I got it the week Star Wars Episode II came out on DVD It does not even have an HDMI connector, only DVI. I've had so many problems with it, though When it's working it's great - very nice picture, sound, etc. But every few months one of the color (for lack of a better description I'll call them) lights (they look like big colored flood lights) goes out and I have to have it replaced - thank goodness for the extended warranty from the store

I can't wait until something really goes wrong with the TV and I can justfy getting someting newer that can do 1080p :P

[FulciLives]

Luckily I've had no issues with mine but then again it isn't even two whole years old yet. In fact I got 24 months without interest so I am still paying on it although that will be done this December.

Looks like I'll have it for a while ... maybe my next TV will be 2160p :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SatStorm]

On my HD-Ready Samsung 40" LCD (M91B model, the first of the back LED ones), you can easily see a visual difference between an upscaled DVD (and the upscaled DVB channels) and a DVB S2 HDTV transmission of 1080i. Personally, I can't see a difference between 720p and 1080i/p, but that's natural (I have a less than 50" TV and the panel is 720p).

1080p@24fps has motion problems on all the TV Sets I tested it. There is still not a single TV out there, with a panel to support correct this framerate. And yes, because of my job I saw them (almost) all...

Now: Is the difference between a superbit upscaled (PAL) DVD and a downscaled 1080i HDDVD/Blue Ray/DVB S2 to 720p, something to rave about? Well, in a HD Ready LCD screen like mine, no. There is a difference but not huge enough: Is like the difference between VHS/SVHS on an average 28" CRT TV screen.

[Heywould3]

... maybe my next TV will be 2160p :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

or this

[FulciLives]

... maybe my next TV will be 2160p :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

or this

Interesting yes but outside of sporting events or other "live" events (like maybe concerts etc.) I don't see much use for something like that.

Well might be good for porn actually LOL and maybe games if they can make it interactive.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jagabo]

I can't do this myself as I do not have HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray but if someone does then it would be kewl if that person could do the following:

Take a movie that is on standard DVD and post a straight screen grab of it i.e., 720x480

Then take the same movie in either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format and post a straight screen grab of it i.e., 1920x1080

Then maybe post some "follow up" pictures such as:

1.) The standard DVD image upsized to 720p and 1080p
2.) The Hi-Def image downsized to 720p and even 480p

All that would be very kewl.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Not exactly what you asked for but:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/autumn_2007_video_shootout/

One sample from the review:

[rhegedus]

I can't do this myself as I do not have HD-DVD nor Blu-Ray but if someone does then it would be kewl if that person could do the following:

Take a movie that is on standard DVD and post a straight screen grab of it i.e., 720x480

Then take the same movie in either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray format and post a straight screen grab of it i.e., 1920x1080

Then maybe post some "follow up" pictures such as:

1.) The standard DVD image upsized to 720p and 1080p
2.) The Hi-Def image downsized to 720p and even 480p

All that would be very kewl.

I have the HD and standard DVD of Miami Vice - I'll rip them both and post some pics.

[rhegedus]

MV_PICS.zip (5.39MB)

Here's a couple of pics taken from the SD and HD DVDs of Miami Vice.

Both DVDs were ripped to hard drive: the SD was frameserved into TMPGEnc using DVD2AVI and cropped to remove black bars before each frame output to BMP. The HD was scripted into VirtualDub using avisynth, cropped to remove black bars and then encoded to avi with Lagarith lossless codec and then fed into TMPGEnc to obtain the BMPs.

[FulciLives]

Thank you to jagabo for the link and thank you rhegedus for the sample images.

It is clear that Hi-Def optical discs blow away up-scaled standard DVD Video.

At least to my eyes.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman