Youtube Upload, increase quality/control (HQ hack obsolete)

[sdsumike619]

What is the best source file to start out with? I have expensive NLE at my disposal so I can pretty much create anything from the timeline. Also, I am having one heck of a tough time understand the hex code and how it corresponds to minutes, seconds. How do you know what duration to set it to? Can we just use 10:00 all the time? If not, can you post the correct hex codes for those sixteen digits for say, one minute, two mins, three mins, four mins, five mins and so on?

[45tripp]

I'm not sure what happened with my last few video attempts, but my latest works just fine.

well...
what changed?

i believe by saying "10 minute limit" they meant "everything below 11", aka 10:59 and below etc...

i'll have to give it a try sometime

so if using 100KBps as the lowest common denominator can we conclude that its safe to upload 800Kbps video and have it NOT glitch when watching?

lowest speed in which country?

oh and also a question. could you fake both the flv duration AND bitrate?

no


@sdsumike619
yes you can use a single command line quite effectively.

What is the best source file to start out with?

a compressible one.

I have expensive NLE at my disposal so I can pretty much create anything from the timeline.

frameserve the source.
when using an intermediary encode,
vp6 and h264 work well.

How do you know what duration to set it to?

nothing wrong with trial and error.

Can we just use 10:00 all the time?

you can...
it would be rather foolish though.

If not, can you post the correct hex codes for those sixteen digits for say, one minute, two mins, three mins, four mins, five mins and so on?

4E00 (the rest zeroes) = 1 min
5E00 = 2 min
6680 = 3 min
6E00 = 4 min
72C0 = 5 min
7680 = 6 min
7A40 = 7 min
7E00 = 8 min
80E0 = 9 min
82C0 = 10 min
849F = 10:59 min (if someone would like to test it)


gl

[sdsumike619]

Ok, so a compressable one to me means regular DV AVI, is that fine? You said previously in this thread not to use VP6 because Youtube will re-encode it. Is that not the case anymore? Thank you for posting those hex codes, I would not have been able to figure that out! Is there a way to achieve the same results using avanti as your command line? When I compared the results from avanti with following your guide as best I could.

mencoder lesson.avi -o lesson.flv -af resample=22050:0:0 -sws 9 -vf scale=448:-3,expand=448:336 -of lavf -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=flv:vbitrate=400:trell:v4mv:mv0:mbd=2:cbp:aic:cmp=3:subcmp=3 -oac mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=48:mode=3 -lavfopts i_certify_that_my_video_stream_does_not_use_b_frames

[45tripp]

Ok, so a compressable one to me means regular DV AVI, is that fine?

yes,
may need some filtering, according to taste

You said previously in this thread not to use VP6 because Youtube will re-encode it. Is that not the case anymore?

not changed, nor is it likely to ever.
you were talking about doing things in 2 steps.
encode 1,
encode 2.
In such a case i've used both h264 and vp6 as the first step encode.

Thank you for posting those hex codes, I would not have been able to figure that out!

np

Is there a way to achieve the same results using avanti as your command line? When I compared the results from avanti with following your guide as best I could.

Avanti is already set up the way it should be.
I prefer mencoder over ffmpeg too,
but there shouldn't be that much of a difference,
assuming the settings are the same that is.

-lavfopts i_certify_that_my_video_stream_does_not_use_b_frames

update mplayer/mencoder.

gl

[sdsumike619]

I thought I downloaded the latest version from your link... what version should I have?
So now as I understand it, your command line code encodes to FLV at 400kbps. Then we use the hex editor to increase the duration and doing so will lower the reported bitrate? Is it best to get as close to 350 as possible? Or does it not even matter since the actual bitrate isn't changing? When I increased it to 10 mins, the reported bitrate I think was 36kbps. So what I'm trying to determine is if I should be shooting for as close to 350 as I can without going over?

[Biggiesized]

I always do 2-pass encodes with 290 kb/s set as the video bit rate and I have a specially prepared ABR stereo .mp3 at 48 kb/s. Muxing them together typically keeps me around 345-349 kb/s total (there is typically 9 kb/s in overhead).

Sometimes with the film content I use, doing more than 2-passes yields video bit rates much higher than my target because the encoder chooses a bit rate close to yours, but one that it deems the best for that content (be it on or off the mark).

[45tripp]

I thought I downloaded the latest version from your link... what version should I have?

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=205275&package_id=248631&release_id=546081

So now as I understand it, your command line code encodes to FLV at 400kbps.

you can change the bitrate...

Then we use the hex editor to increase the duration and doing so will lower the reported bitrate? Is it best to get as close to 350 as possible? Or does it not even matter since the actual bitrate isn't changing?

Yes, it matters.
Unless you don't care how much duration is misreported.
Get close to 350.

So what I'm trying to determine is if I should be shooting for as close to 350 as I can without going over?

No need to spend much time on it. Just get close.

Sometimes with the film content I use, doing more than 2-passes yields video bit rates much higher than my target because the encoder chooses a bit rate close to yours, but one that it deems the best for that content (be it on or off the mark).

multipass vbr is accurate.
i've not heard of oversized mencoder encodes. undersized yes.
and i've exerienced failed encodes where mencoder informs that the bitrate is too low for the parameters set


gl

[sdsumike619]

Here's a question, when I execute the command line, it puts all that initialization stuff up on the screen and then as it's going sometimes it says "skipping frame!" or "1 duplicate frame(s)!" Is this bad? Also, I tried frameserving from Vegas using the debugmode frameserver and it doesn't work with this particular application, nor TVC, nor Avanti.. It keeps saying that the input file is no good. How can I frameserve to these applications so I don't have to encode another big AVI file? Instead of AVI, I've found that MP4 gives a pretty good result if used as an input file..

[45tripp]

Here's a question, when I execute the command line, it puts all that initialization stuff up on the screen and then as it's going sometimes it says "skipping frame!" or "1 duplicate frame(s)!" Is this bad?

no

Also, I tried frameserving from Vegas using the debugmode frameserver and it doesn't work with this particular application, nor TVC, nor Avanti..

Go via avisynth.
render with vegas to the signpost.avi,
and load into avisynth with:

avisource("signpost.avi")

encode your movie.avs

Avanti has a force avisynth mode btw.
load the vegas signpost.avi into avanti and force avisynth mode,
encode.

gl

[sdsumike619]

ok I've never used avisynth before, it's command line too? Can you explain these two steps in a bit more detail:

avisource("signpost.avi")
encode your movie.avs

is avisource an executable file? I don't really understand because I haven't used it before. I understand that you want me to render the signpost avi file from vegas. But them from there, I don't follow.. Did you mean movie.avi What file do I use as a source for mencoder?

[45tripp]

but you have avisynth installed...
at least from your post in the avanti thread, that's what i gathered
"avisynth/ffmpeg combo sound"

If it's installed, (if not, install!)
load the avi exported from vegas into avanti,
and on the "start process" button right click to select "avisynth FORCE mode" (this remains selected
until you change it again regardless of program shutdown; avanti keeps settings)
there is a little red icon next to the 'source 1' input box called "A:", click on the A making the box yellow,
then start the encode.

Anyway,

avisynth is a frameserver.
you install it.
then you open a text editor, like notepad, write a script and save the text file with an .avs extension,
that avs file then serves as your video, you load the movie.avs file into your encoder.

don't let the word script scare you,
for this task all that is required is a single line.
open a text file in notepad and write the following, where 'signpost.avi' is your exported from vegas file:

avisource("signpost.avi")

then save the file as 'movie.avs' in the same directory that 'signpost.avi' is.
from now on treat 'movie.avs' as your video.

gl

[sdsumike619]

Ok, so from your last reply, it sounds like you're giving me two options, correct? One is to use avanti (apparently when I right click to select "avisynth FORCE mode" it should make it work whereas before it was saying the file format was no good) And the other method is to use Vegas to frameserve to avisynth to frameserve to mencoder, do I have it right now?

[45tripp]

the option is the same,
you frameserve with vegas to avisynth to the encoder.

with Avanti the avisynth script is created for you,
if you want to use mencoder you'll have to write it yourself.

[sdsumike619]

OK I'll have to try that later.. Right now I'm encoding video for Brightcove, which by the way comes out fantastic following their guidelines. Earlier I made one for YouTube using your method with mencoder, I upped the bitrate to 800kbps and then used the hex editor to increase it from 53 seconds to 2 minutes so then mediainfo only reported the bitrate as something like 312 if I remember right. The video looked great on Youtube.. So for anyone reading this thread thinking it sounds impossible, I'm a total beginner, just copy his command line to notepad and change the input/output filenames and bitrate if you want and then you're good to go, just paste it on the command line and hit enter, it does the rest!

[Toastie]

ffmpeg -i 300.avs -pass 1 -ab 48k -ar 22050 -ac 1 -vcodec flv -b 400k -g 160 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv0+mv4+trell 300.flv

ffmpeg -i 300.avs -pass 1 -ab 48k -ar 22050 -ac 1 -vcodec flv -b 400k -g 160 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv0+mv4+trell -y 300.flv

Shouldn't that second line from the bottom say "-pass 2"? I am new to this, but I interpreted the last two lines to be the parameter for the 2nd pass, since it has the "-y" to delete the inital results. If I am wrong on that, please let me know.

Thanks.

[sdsumike619]

OK so thanks to 45tripp, I've got Youtube down pretty good... Is there any kind of trick with Google video? They don't accept FLV but that's what they encode to, so what can we do? Everything I upload there looks like crud.

[45tripp]

I don't know any google tricks.

@toastie,
typo, fixed.

[Toastie]

The source was interlaced and could have been a bit cleaner, so I did this:

AviSynth:

LoadPlugin("C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\My Documents\My Downloads\Working files\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\UnDot.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\LeakKernelDeint.dll")
a = mpeg2Source("AR.d2v").UnDot().LeakKernelDeint(1).Lanczos4Resize (480,360).changefps(20)
b = wavsource("AR.wav")
audiodub(a,b)


ffmpeg.bat file:

ffmpeg -i AR.avs -pass 1 -ab 48k -ar 22050 -ac 1 -vcodec flv -b 658k -g 160 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv0+mv4+trell AR.flv

ffmpeg -i AR.avs -pass 2 -ab 48k -ar 22050 -ac 1 -vcodec flv -b 658k -g 160 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv0+mv4+trell -y AR.flv


The file is actually 4:52 long, and with the bitrate set to 658 and 48K 22050 mono audio, the file size is 25,460KB. Used the Hexcellent hex editor to change it to 10 minutes (82C0) and the combined bitrate reported by Mediainfo was 348. Close enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7brcBuoC8DY


Pretty sharp!

[frifox]

so if using 100KBps as the lowest common denominator can we conclude that its safe to upload 800Kbps video and have it NOT glitch when watching?

lowest speed in which country?

If not, can you post the correct hex codes for those sixteen digits for say, one minute, two mins, three mins, four mins, five mins and so on?

4E00 (the rest zeroes) = 1 min
5E00 = 2 min
6680 = 3 min
6E00 = 4 min
72C0 = 5 min
7680 = 6 min
7A40 = 7 min
7E00 = 8 min
80E0 = 9 min
82C0 = 10 min
849F = 10:59 min (if someone would like to test it)


gl

1. USA
2. I found if you use "84 B0" for duration, video slips under the radar and youtube player shows an even 11:00 demo: http://youtube.com/watch?v=0quY-nTlSuE


oh, and btw i'm using latest Sorenson Squeeze and for some reason 350Kbps CBR video looks MUCH better than 350Kbps 2-Pass VBR video... am i missing something here, i thought VBR was supposed to be better???

[Toastie]

1. USA
2. I found if you use "84 B0" for duration, video slips under the radar and youtube player shows an even 11:00 demo: http://youtube.com/watch?v=0quY-nTlSuE

I saw that on the page for your sample video, you say:

> Restrictions are that the video has to be 25fps,
> and audio should be 80Kbps stereo.


Do you mean 25fps is youtube's max fps? I had thought from reading this thread that 20 fps was the max allowed, but maybe that was just the suggestion for getting the most out of this technique?

Also, do you know what the real youtube upper limitation is for the audio? I thought that 48K 22050 mono audio was the most, but maybe that was just a suggestion? If the audio sounds ok at 48K 22050 mono or just isn't that important I do think that is good to use and allows for more encoding bit rate for the video.


Thanks!

[zoobie]

I've found increased quality control by simply not uploading to youTube at all and using one of my hosted domains. Of course, it's not free but I have my choice of formats, length, bitrates, fps, audio, and overall PQ.
Will be adding HD-WMV, too.

[45tripp]

Do you mean 25fps is youtube's max fps? I had thought from reading this thread that 20 fps was the max allowed, but maybe that was just the suggestion for getting the most out of this technique?

20 was specific to what I was doing,
and suggestion.
30 is the max. If you let youtube re-encode you that is,
otherwise there is none.

Also, do you know what the real youtube upper limitation is for the audio? I thought that 48K 22050 mono audio was the most, but maybe that was just a suggestion? If the audio sounds ok at 48K 22050 mono or just isn't that important I do think that is good to use and allows for more encoding bit rate for the video

Again suggestion,
you can find 320k stereo if you look.

2. I found if you use "84 B0" for duration, video slips under the radar and youtube player shows an even 11:00 demo: http://youtube.com/watch?v=0quY-nTlSuE

thanks for testing

oh, and btw i'm using latest Sorenson Squeeze and for some reason 350Kbps CBR video looks MUCH better than 350Kbps 2-Pass VBR video... am i missing something here, i thought VBR was supposed to be better???

it is in most cases.
can't comment on squeeze, as i've never used it.

I've found increased quality control by simply not uploading to youTube at all

always good to fly solo

[sdsumike619]

Since I don't know all the particulars of your command line command, can you help me to write a command to convert an NTSC DV AVI source (720x480, 29.97fps, non-interlaced) to the new 480x360 frame size FLV using mencoder? I really want to achieve the highest possible quality on this one, especially the audio. And the length is just under 5 minutes. Does mencoder let you do two pass? If so what would the command be? Thanks so much!

[45tripp]

Just beacause display size is 480x360,
doesn't mean you have to encode to that resolution...

DV can benefit from filtering.

Filtering aside,
I guess something like this:

mencoder dv.avi -o menc.flv -af resample=44100:0:1 -srate 44100 -sws 9 -vf scale=480:-3,expand=480:360 -of lavf -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=flv:vpass=1:vbitrate=550:trell:v4mv:mv0:mbd=2:cbp:aic:cmp=3:subcmp=3 -oac mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128

mencoder dv.avi -o menc.flv -af resample=44100:0:1 -srate 44100 -sws 9 -vf scale=480:-3,expand=480:360 -of lavf -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=flv:vpass=3:vbitrate=550:trell:v4mv:mv0:mbd=2:cbp:aic:cmp=3:subcmp=3 -oac mp3lame -lameopts abr:br=128

gl

[frifox]

Just beacause display size is 480x360,
doesn't mean you have to encode to that resolution...

and as a tip:


QUOTE:
Video codecs such as On2 VP6 and Sorenson Spark perform best when the frame width and height use multiples of 16. While you can use any width and height in your encoding settings, non-optimal dimensions can result in poor image quality and reduced frame rate. For the best image quality and playback, you should always use width and height dimensions that use a multiple of 16 (best), 8 (better), or 4 (good). In fact, I would recommend that you refrain from using 4 or 8 multiples unless absolutely necessary, if you can verify with cross-platform tests that quality or playback haven't been compromised. Refer to the following tables to pick dimensions for your layout.

Optimal frame dimensions are here:
http://www.flashsupport.com/books/fvst/files/tools/video_sizes.html

[bayme]

OK, I have some homemade source video files (OpenDML AVI, with 44.1 kHz PCM audio, all uncompressed), 640x480, 25fps, RGB Raw Bitmap (no codec required for Windows). The file I'm first trying is 5 GB in size.

I was trying to use mencoder to convert them. They have already been filtered much, so I don't need avisynth.

This is my favored commandline for now:

mencoder pbd.avi -af -sws 9 -vf scale=448:-3,expand=448:336 -of lavf -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=flv:vbitrate=500:mbd=2:mv0:mv0_threshold=0:trell:v4mv:cbp:
last_pred=3:predia=2:dia=2:precmp=2:cmp=4:subcmp=3:preme=2:vpass=3:psnr
-oac mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=160:mode=3 -o presencer.flv

When trying that I get a sh*tload of errors. Any and all advice is welcome here..
Thanks in advance..

[45tripp]

the first thing to do is to remove vpass=3

[Scotty J]

Pretty dang slick bud. I haven't really played around with it too much, I pretty much just followed your example to see how it turned out. I am very impressed.

Here are two links, the first is the one that I uploaded a while back to Google Videos, the Second is one that I just upload this morning. The difference if very clear (pardon the pun LOL). Below the links, I'll post my AVISynth script and my FFMpeg script. The FFMpeg scripts was pretty much right off your example, I just changed the names to protect the innocent.

I did run into one slight dilemma, and it was nice to be able to work it all out on my own. I've been lurking around here and Doom9 for about 2 years. This stuff is very cool, but it gets REAL complicated quick. The problem that I ran into is, there are 4 static pics at the intro of the clip. When I resized the video, it cropped the edges of them, so I had to whip out Photshop, change the graphic, I used avysynth to add the borders and to even everything out. Thanks again for a very interesting lesson.

Google Vid
YT Vid

AVISynth Script

DirectShowSource("C:\Work\test.wmv",0,audio=false).Crop(18,0,-18,-0).Lanczos4Resize(448,336).ConvertFPS(20).ConvertToYV12()
v1=Trim(165,4115)
p1=Imagesource("C:\Work\1.jpg",end=41,fps=20).AddBorders(0,18,0,18).Lanczos4Resize(448,336).ConvertToYV12()
p2=Imagesource("C:\Work\2.jpg",42,end=83,fps=20).AddBorders(0,18,0,18).Lanczos4Resize(448,336).ConvertToYV12()
p3=Imagesource("C:\Work\3.jpg",84,end=125,fps=20).AddBorders(0,18,0,18).Lanczos4Resize(448,336).ConvertToYV12()
p4=Imagesource("C:\Work\4.jpg",126,end=164,fps=20).AddBorders(0,18,0,18).Lanczos4Resize(448,336).ConvertToYV12()
vid=AlignedSplice(p1,p2,p3,p4,v1)
a1=DirectShowSource("C:\Work\test.wmv")
AudioDub(vid,a1)

FFMpeg Script

ffmpeg -i test.avs -pass 1 -ab 48k -ar 22050 -ac 1 -vcodec flv -b 400k -g 160 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv0+mv4+trell test.flv 

ffmpeg -i test.avs -pass 2 -ab 48k -ar 22050 -ac 1 -vcodec flv -b 400k -g 160 -cmp 3 -subcmp 3 -mbd 2 -flags aic+cbp+mv0+mv4+trell -y test.flv

[/code]

[bayme]

the first thing to do is to remove vpass=3

Doesn't change one bit. The result gives almost the exact same errors.
I got the vpass idea from doom9 and http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/tech/encoding-tips.txt

[45tripp]

you got the wrong idea.

anyway,
might be something with your actual file.

could try adding -vc rawrgb32 or -vc rawbgr32flip

if you like upload a few frames somewhere and i'll try.

gl