pc not recognizing mini dv camcorder

[jbitakis]

Hi, I have a panasonic pv-gs14 camcorder and I am trying to transfer video via firewire port to my laptop. My laptop is not even recognizing my camcorder and not transfering video (not recognizing dv device). It worked 1 time 2 months ago, but not ever since. I have microsoft xp service pack 2 os. Should I do a system restore to 2 months ago right before it worked. I have tried 3 different firewire cables and so it is not the cables. I also went to another pc and that pc did not recognize the camcorder as well. Does it sound like it is the camcorder or something i need to do to my pc?
James

[jbitakis]

To Bjs: Are you saying that I should connect camcorder to pc and turn on camcorder (while pc is off) then turn on pc? So its 1. turn on camcorder 2. connect cam to pc (while pc is off). 3. Then turn on pc.
Then when I'm done, should I turn off pc before turning off camcorder and disconnecting cam from pc?
It seems ridiculous that I shorted the camcorder. I heard nothing go wrong with cam and it still works fine.

I remember that when it worked the one time, I turned off camcorder first and then disconnected it from pc-was this wrong??

I will try to dc all drivers and software and reboot.

What about doing a system restore to right before it worked?

James
ps sorry for cross posting

[Richard_G]

I've always done it the other way round and never had a problem with any of my 4 Sony camcorders. The pc is on, I connect the Firewire cable and switch the camcorder on, Windows recognises it and starts my transfer software. When I have finished, I switch the camcorder off and then unplug it.

This was the method given in the instructions that came with my Firewire card and it has never failed me yet.

[jbitakis]

To Richard G. Yes I think you are right with the order to do the firewire transfer. I have now tested my new firewire cable using my brother-in-law's sony mini dv cam on my computer and it worked fine (although a lot of dropped frames, which is probably due to my video software or too many things running in background). I am convinced now that something is wrong with my panasonic's dv/firewire port, therefore I will use my capture wiz device by ADStech Instant DVD 2.0( the same device I use to transfer analog to my pc) to take my video off my mini dv camcorder.
The way it works is I use the plug for the av out on the camcorder to the cap wiz device (the red,white,yellow ports) then from the cap wiz to the computer via usb 2.0. This way I can at least get my video onto my computer. It is not near as clear as firewire though. I don't understand why that is. I will be getting a dvd recorder soon and will plug the camcorder directly to the dvd recorder and see how clear that is (although I won't be editing it that way).
My friend says that at the computer store I can find a usb adapter that plugs into my laptop that has the red,white,yellow video/audio ports on it. I'll look into that.
James

[JohnnyMalaria]

Whenever I read a post about a possible fried port, it's usually Panasonic and rarely Sony. I have a lot of Sony DV equipment and I hot-swap pieces all the time.

Anyway, the fact that your brother-in-law's cam works but poorly suggests to me that you might still have an issue with your PC's interface. DV capture doesn't require much from the PC. To be dropping a lot frames either points to a hardware issue with the FireWire or you are trying to capture to a heavily fragmented hard drive - e.g., the one with the OS on.

Try connecting your cam to your brother-in-law's via FireWire. Set yours to be in VTR mode and the other to be in camera mode. You made need to specifically state DV IN on your one (via the menu) and DV OUT on the other (the actual menu item names may be different). If the FireWire on your one is working correctly, you should see the live camera feed from the other one on your cam's monitor/view finder. If not, check the reverse (i.e., your cam as live camera and the othe in VTR mode).

Also, check that you get a 'ba-dip' sound from the PC when you connect your cam to it and turn it on. If not, then Windows isn't detecting the cam and there's definitely a problem....

[jbitakis]

Heavily fragmented?? OS on?? Of course the Operating system is on, how else can I work on my computer??
Do I need to defragment my pc? Is that what you are talking about?
When I used my brother's sony firewire to my pc, it worked fine, but I had 200 dropped frames in 10min. A different capture software had around 150 dropped frames in 10min. My computer is only 1 year old and it works fine. The firewire card is recent and the firewire cable is new. I have an old sony hi-8 cam that works great but I wanted to get into digital, so I bought this used panasonic cam online. (bad idea). I may have to bite the bullet and buy a new camcorder with a warranty.
also, no ding or beep or anythng when i plug my cam into my computer (it does not even recognize it when firewire connected).
James

[Cornucopia]

Heavily fragmented?? OS on?? Of course the Operating system is on, how else can I work on my computer??
Do I need to defragment my pc? Is that what you are talking about?
When I used my brother's sony firewire to my pc, it worked fine, but I had 200 dropped frames in 10min. A different capture software had around 150 dropped frames in 10min. My computer is only 1 year old and it works fine. The firewire card is recent and the firewire cable is new. I have an old sony hi-8 cam that works great but I wanted to get into digital, so I bought this used panasonic cam online. (bad idea). I may have to bite the bullet and buy a new camcorder with a warranty.
also, no ding or beep or anythng when i plug my cam into my computer (it does not even recognize it when firewire connected).
James

JohnnyMalaria has some good pointers for you (especially, coming as it does from someone who KNOWS about DV/Firewire stuff). Your answers tell me you aren't versed enough with the requirements involved in DV/MPEG capture/edit/conversion...

1st, your "PC" couldn't be defragmented--it's your HARD DRIVES that would be fragmented. And YES, they should be defragmented.

2nd, I say "THEY" because to do any GOOD QUALITY work (which you profess to want to do), you need to have at least 2 (one for the OS & Apps, one specifically for Video+Audio). Talk of "200" frame drops in 10 min. tells me that you only have 1 badly fragmented OS drive. I have 3 (OS + RAID pair for video) and haven't EVER had a SINGLE frame drop for as long as I can remember (at least 7 years and THOUSANDS of hours of video on this box alone).
[***I noticed you said LAPTOP, which most assuredly is ONLY 1 drive, since you didn't mention any attached USB/Firewire drives. Another thing for the shopping list...]

3rd, start with good quality stuff, and in stepwise fashion, troubleshoot to make sure that all the links in the chain are working fine and talking together nicely. THEN you are ready to start capturing/editing. Otherwise, you're fiddling while Rome burns (ok, maybe a little to extreme quip).

4th, IF instead of capping DV/Firewire, you choose to cap via analog, you be doing your video quality a huge disservice--dropping it to 40-60% of the DV quality. Even if you then don't do any editing/FX and just convert once with HQ MPEG encoder to 9000kbps (keeping say 90%), you're now at say 36-54% (40-60 * .9). If you aren't careful and knowledgeable enough, it'll be even a good deal less. Quality would then be a joke. And all because of not fixing the original problem.

Scott

[jbitakis]

Ok I get it as far as using usb vs. firewire-a 50% decrease in quality.
I also will defrag my computer's hard drive too.
As far as this whole using 1 OS for video and the other for programs and applications, I am a little confused.
Here is my situation: I have 2 computers: 1 Laptop-75gb hard drive, 1.37gb Ram, Intel celeron 1.46GHz with 1 OS windows XP. I also have 1 desktop (6yrs old but upgraded) 160gb hard drive, 372mb Ram, 850mhtz. It has 2 OS on it, I windows XP (the one I use) and windows 2000.
Which one would you recommend using for the video only? I don't have firewire for the desktop, but can buy it and connect it.
Are you saying to use 1 computer for video and the other for all my applications/programs? I don't know how to use 2 OS on one computer.
I can definately use one computer for all the video. But what do I do with all the programs/applications on that computer's hard drive?
I also have an external 500gb hard drive.
James

[Jim44]

Two hard drives is what is being recommended - one for your OS/programs/applications and another one for your video.

Jim

[JohnnyMalaria]

I also have an external 500gb hard drive.

James

This is your ticket to video happiness!

Simply connect your external hard drive to your laptop and use it for all your video files - capturing, editing, converting etc. Leave the internal drive for the OS and your applications including your video related ones.

The beauty of this - apart from having a nice, large drive that wont get fragmented with lots of little files - is that you can unplug it and plug it into your desktop. So, if you have various video apps on each, you can easily share the video files.

BTW, is your external drive USB and FireWire or just USB? If it is both, use the USB interface since when a camcorder is on the same FireWire it can cause the hard drive to perform at a lower speed.

One last thought, do both computers have the faster USB 2.0 interfaces and not USB 1.1? If not, you may want to consider adding a card to your desktop or a PCMCIA card (that goes in the slot) for your laptop.

[Richard_G]

You say you don't know how to use 2 OS on one computer but also say that the desktop has XP and Win 2000 on it? That is using 2 OS on one computer surely?

However, that isn't the point being made. Ideally, for transferring DV video (or video using any method really) you want 2 hard drives in a computer. One of these is used for the operating system and your applications, the other is used to store the video on. A hard drive can only do one thing at once, so while it is writing and reading the Windows swap file and dealing with all the other stuff that Windows does in the background (not to mention virus scanners and the like), it can't be writing a video file to that same hard drive. It can quite easily do it if the video file is being written to a different hard drive.

In your situation, I would fit a Firewire card to the desktop, connect the external drive and use WinDV to transfer the video from camcorder to the external hard drive. This assumes that you either manage to get the Firewire port on the camcorder to work or get a different camcorder. I will agree with JohnnyMalaria, I have never heard of a Sony camcorder with a fried Firewire port but it does seem to be a weak point with Panasonics.

For a DV transfer to work without dropping frames the sustained data rate for the hard drives needs to be fast enough. CPU speed and memory aren't that important. If you have Nero installed on your copmputers, there is a very simple way to check the data rate. Open Nero Burning Rom (not StartSmart or Nero Express), click on File, Preferences. Click the Cache tab and you should see a button marked Test all Drive Speeds. Click that and let it run the test. DV video is approximately 13GB per hour which equates to around 3.5MB per second. If your drive speeds are better than about 6 or 7 MB per second you should be OK. If they are not you have a seriously sick computer!

Uncompressed video can be up to 60 MB per second and that is stretching all but the highest spec machines with very fast hard drives.

Video isn't as easy as is made out and does require a bit of understanding.

Edited to say, damn, Johnny types faster than me (or doesn't waffle as much)

[jbitakis]

First let me say thanks to RichardG and Johnnymalaria. OK here is how I understand what you guys are telling me:
I will transfer the video from the camcorder to the external hard drive (since it does not have the os to worry about or virus scans to do like the laptop does. I do have 2 usb 2.0 ports on my laptop. I also have 2 more usb 2.0 ports and a 6pin and 4pin firewire card that I bought and put into my PCMCIA slot. Now, my external Iomega 500gb hard drive does not have a firewire port, just a usb 2.0 port. However, I guess what I will do (once I either fix this firewire or buy a new camcorder), is transfer video from the camcorder via firewire to the firewire port on the laptop and using something like Windv, capture the video instead on my laptop's C hard drive, onto my external hard drive, and doing this should cause less dropped frames, correct?

I am probably going to buy a new camcorder because I am at wits end as to try and fix this panasonic's firewire port. ANd I am not gonna pay an arm and a leg when I can buy a new camcorder (mini dv) for around $225.

Speaking of new camcorders have you guys heard anything bad about JVC camcorders. Dell has one on sale for $214. (mini dv)
James

[Richard_G]

To find out about camcorders, have a look at www.camcorderinfo.com where you'll find tests on most of those available.

Your proposed method should work fine, just run the drive speed test to make sure the external drive over USB is fast enough.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Agree with Richard_G.

USB2.0 hard drives are typically fast enough. I have three hanging off my system. They also have FireWire interfaces but it isn't always a good idea to have them hooked up to the same interface as the camcorder. It can drop the transfer rate of data to/from the hard drive.

The DV transfer rate is very slow anyway compared to modern hard drives, external or internal.

[hbsurfer]

I have the same problem as jbitakis. I was able to use my PV-GS14 once for transfering DV -> PC via firewire, however the second time I used it to transfer, the PC did not recognize the camcorder.

I did checkout www.camcorderinfo.com, but I was not able to find good information. Any suggestions?

[thecoalman]

When you connect the cam you should hear the famialiar external device connected sound and it should be listed in My Computer. If it is listed post back, if it's not listed first thing to do is try it on another computer or some of the other things suggested suggested in this thrrad. There's simply too many things that can be wrong i.e. bad cable, bad cam, bad port, system problem . You need to first determine where the issue lies and determing if it's the cam or cable is the first place to start.

[hbsurfer]

Thanks for the reply.

I do hear a sound of an external device connecting to the PC but my PC does not recognize the camcorder. I've tried it on a different PC, different cable, and it still does not work.

As for software, I do not have the USB connection software because I did not purchase it with the camcorder. I believe the firewire would do me just fine if it would work again. I've used the Window's default program to transfer DV -> pc.

The only thing I can think of now is the SD card. However, I don't think the video was saved on the SD card. I am so confused...

[aedipuss]

make sure to turn the cam on and put it in play/edit mode. then plug in the firewire cable. try a known good firewire cable preferably 4 wire to 4 wire. if it still doesn't work it may have a bad firewire port.

[thecoalman]

Thanks for the reply.

I do hear a sound of an external device connecting to the PC but my PC does not recognize the camcorder. I've tried it on a different PC, different cable, and it still does not work.

I would suggest it's your camcorder, you may have to change something in the menu but generally it's plug and play. i.e DV-out or switch between the card and the tape. Varies by cam. Just to confirm you hear the familiar "dunk-dunk" sound of a device connected. Then go to my computer look on the bottom under cameras/scanner or whatever its labeled and it should be listed.

As for software, I do not have the USB connection software because I did not purchase it with the camcorder. I believe the firewire would do me just fine if it would work again. I've used the Window's default program to transfer DV -> pc.

The USB is for transferring pictures from the memory card to your computer and on some cams can be used for low quality video or a web cam. For full DV bit for bit transfer you need to use firewire. The software and/or drivers needed to do this should be available from the manufacturer's website. To transfer pictures from the card via USB generally you only need the drivers, the card will show up in My Computer as external drive and you can just copy them to your computer... again varies by cam. Read the manual.