DVDs: shelf life and storage conditions

[igorek]

Where can I find information about longevity of various types of DVDs, and what storage conditions are the best ? I am in process of scanning and transefrring our family photo-archive to a DVD, but a friend told me that it may not last even 5 years... I am using TDK DVD+R 1-16X.

[grannyGeek]

Here's a link for a pretty thorough discussion on care & handling.

http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/894.05/docs/CDandDVDCareandHandlingGuide.pdf

And search here on the forum, there are a number of threads that address this question. You are sure to get some advice about buying highest quality blank media that you can locate. Many seem to agree that Taiyo Yuden is the disk of choice.

I don't have any older than 5 years old, so can't speak for really long-term longevity, but I always burn at the slowest speed the disk will support (always using ImgBurn - excellent tool!), never use stick-on labels, and ALWAYS STORE THEM IN THE DARK.

I had some in clear jewel cases on a shelf with indirect light, and the light destroyed them after about 4 months. They faded & discolored, and were totally unplayable. Lesson Learned!

[Wile_E]

Burning at a really slow speed with fast-rated discs can cause problems. The dye on these discs are made for faster speeds. Reports that I've read, said that burning slow is no longer recommended. It is best to burn close to the rated speed. If the discs are 16x, burn no slower than 12x.

Get a few large capacity hard drives and store ISO images of each disc on them. Then store these HDD's in a safe place. They will last much longer than any burned disc. I had some crappy Memorex (CMC) CD-R's that went bad after only a year. They were stored in a CD carrier, in the closet. So forget storing them on DVD's. Even if you make multiple copies, all copies will eventually go bad in time. Get a few hard drives. 500GB's are now $79 and can store a lot of ISO's.

[grannyGeek]

Wile_E, good to know about the burn speed.
Every time I think I have a procedure down pat, they change the rules!

[gll99]

My main concern with discs is the calibration of the various drives. A couple of years ago, I tried to read some older cheap cdrw's but they wouldn't read on my 2 newer dvd burners so I pulled out the old computer from mothballs with the original cd burner on it and the disks read fine. so I transferred the data and re-burned them to dvd on my newer pc.

Longevity is an unknown with DVD but there is little reason to think they won't outlast the technology so expect to transfer them again someday.

btw) Sector readers can often save a large portion of the data on a damaged disc. Some of the video might be lost but not all. If you save multiple copies of family valuables then even if all the copies have some damage, it may not be the same file sectors. With multiple backups it may be possible to recreate a perfect original pieced together from 3 originals.

[dcsos]

LIGHT
and
HEAT
the two unexpected killers
DON'T leave in glove compartment or back window of car!
DON'T use paper labels

[edDV]

Back up your backup with different media.

[JohnnyBob]

Here's a link for a pretty thorough discussion on care & handling.

http://www.itl.nist.gov/iad/894.05/docs/CDandDVDCareandHandlingGuide.pdf

And search here on the forum, there are a number of threads that address this question. You are sure to get some advice about buying highest quality blank media that you can locate. Many seem to agree that Taiyo Yuden is the disk of choice.

I don't have any older than 5 years old, so can't speak for really long-term longevity, but I always burn at the slowest speed the disk will support (always using ImgBurn - excellent tool!), never use stick-on labels, and ALWAYS STORE THEM IN THE DARK.

I had some in clear jewel cases on a shelf with indirect light, and the light destroyed them after about 4 months. They faded & discolored, and were totally unplayable. Lesson Learned!

Thanks for the link and info. I read a lot of it and extracted the following brief quote which is relevant to this discussion:

Among the manufacturers that have done testing, there is consensus that, under recommended storage conditions, CD-R, DVD-R, and DVD+R discs should have a life expectancy of 100 to 200 years or more; CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, and DVD-RAM discs should have a life expectancy of 25 years or more. Little information is available for CD-ROM and DVD-ROM discs (including audio and video), resulting in an increased level of uncertainty for their life expectancy. Expectations vary from 20 to 100 years for these discs.

As they also explain, technological obsolescence is a bigger threat. In other words, CD/DVD's may become outmoded within 5-10 years, so you won't be able to find or buy a DVD player anymore! This is already happening to VCR's. It's harder & harder to find a VCR. So if you plan to use DVD's for a long time, you'd best stockpile a couple of good DVD players too. Of course what will probably happen is that after a new technology replaces CD/DVD's, there will be some way to transfer your recordings to it. As cheap as external hard drives are getting to be, that may be the new replacement. I'm already considering it. For example we're paying about $1.50-$2.00 for good DL discs, so 100 of those cost $150-$200. So if you can buy an external USB hard drive that will hold the data from 100 discs for less than $150-$200, it becomes cost effective. Of course it's already cost effective if you only use single layer discs and compress, but I prefer not to compress.

I concur with another responder that burning at the slowest possible speed is not always best. However the studies I've seen aren't very conclusive or generalized in that regard. My own method is just a Lone Ranger hunch about what's best. I usually burn at about half the rated speed of the disc. I use Taiyo Yuden DVD-R 16x discs and burn them at 8x. I'm burning 2.4-6x Verbatim DVD+R DL's at 4x. Like you I use ImgBurn and have had no problems playing the discs. However I've had more coasters with the recent "Made in India" Verbatim DLs!?

Thanks for the tip on storing discs in the dark. Like you I've been using jewel cases and prefer the semi-clear colors because it's easier to see writing on them with a Sharpie. I store them vertically in semi-clear plastic storage bins, about 32 per bin. They don't get much light, but after reading your advice, I'm going to line the sides of the storage bins with something to block out light. The lids on the bins are opaque, and they shouldn't get any light from the bottom because they're sitting on metal shelves. My concern is that I've noticed some of the jewel cases are warped, not perfectly flat, which might warp the DVDs inside(?). I'm not sure what to do about this. Maybe the DVDs will adjust themselves to zero tension (and avoid warping) because they're only held onto the hub ring very lightly(?).

[igorek]

Thanks for your replies, seems like a harddrive would be a better solution. But internal harddrives seems like too much of a hussle, so I am thinking of an external harddrive. Unfortunately, it seems that external harddrive prices just would not go down any more - the cheapest ones are 35-40c/GB.

[bmiller]

I just bought a 500gb external hard drive for $138 Canadian which included taxes. That works out to about .28 cents/GB. They are getting cheaper all the time.
It was a LaCie.

[Bjs]

1: Drop tdk fast and switch to better media .

2: Hard drive storage is better .

3: Store dvd's in dark cupboard , 18 to 22 degree's , store on spindle with felt between each disc .

So far , the only dvd media to give problems is newer tdk's ... and there outsourced rubbish .

[lordsmurf]

but a friend told me that it may not last even 5 years..

Your friend is repeating bullshit he read somewhere unreliable or "heard" from another person who did the same.

TDK-branded media is probably a CMC-coded discs, which is fairly crappy. I would avoid it and use better discs. Test your current discs, to be sure the data is really there.

[gll99]

I'm not arguing against hdd storage but just some caution, even with that there is risk, it's not foolproof. Hdd can and do go bad. There are mechanical components that can break. It could be exposed to a strong magnetic field which could corrupt the data beyond recovery. An electrical flaw or peak voltage (ie a thunderstorm etc.. ) can blow the controller. A sharp jar like dropping it can destroy it. A hdd could be part of the safeguarding plan but if it's the only one then it's still like putting all your eggs in one basket. If you value your family videos and pictures then use multiple storage media like hdd and DVD or some other combination.

[Soopafresh]

Good points all around. I've read about folks on videohelp "spraying" their DVDs with clear lacquer or plastic (don't recall). Is that only for the top side of the DVD ? Can the bottom be sprayed to "seal" the media ?

[dcsos]

Id be afraid of anything that might engender the much feared but rarely encountered threat
DVD ROT


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

The failures are a combination of corrosion - known as "DVD rot" - and delamination, where the layers of the disc separate.

[gll99]

Did you see this thread

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic336376.html

Someone suggested a tool DVDisaster but it might be more useful for someone planning to write data to a disc since it's best used at the time of writing. On quick read, it looks like it could be done after the write but before errors occur and the recovery data would be stored elsewhere.

dvdisaster creates error correction codes

Apparently uses 15% or more of the disc space but writes extra recovery data on the disc or even on a separate disc.

http://www.free-codecs.com/download/dvdisaster.htm

I never saw it until reading this but seems interesting.

[lordsmurf]

Id be afraid of anything that might engender the much feared but rarely encountered threat
DVD ROT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD_rot

The failures are a combination of corrosion - known as "DVD rot" - and delamination, where the layers of the disc separate.

"CD rot" is a term that really didn't exist until a few years ago, and was started by people who only have a fuzzy understanding of "laser rot" (an issue with some early Laserdisc alloys).

Anything can ruin a disc, sure, but unless you're storing them underwater, in a rain forest, or in direct sunlight, you'll never really see such a thing. You're just as likely to win the lottery as you would to experience a true degradation of media that happens in a few months or years, as opposed to a few decades. Understand that "true" means the degradation is caused by itself, not your own fault, or due to secondary circumstance (often blamed on the media, due to lack of knowledge and rushed conclusions on the part of the disc owner).

Remember Wikipedia is not a reliable reference source, it's just a bunch of pages where people write down what they think.

Good discs, proper storage and preliminary tests are really all you need.

This article has some sensible information, and dispels of the propaganda-like myths http://www.slais.ubc.ca/people/students/student-projects/C_Hill/hill_libr516/print.htm

A lot of "disc rot" is nothing more than discs that were always faulty. Bad presses happen, bad blanks are made, and bad burns happen. Just because you missed the problem the first time doesn't mean it "rotted" some months or years later. Test your discs.

[dcsos]

Or as I was thinking a closed dark box with unusal high humidity
kept on a radiator..you'd get "NORTHERN ROT"

[lordsmurf]

Or as I was thinking a closed dark box with unusal high humidity kept on a radiator..you'd get "NORTHERN ROT"

I recently heard somebody say a disc "rotted" in their car. Well, no shit. It was 107-F outside, probably up to 200-F inside the car. People were baking cookies in car dashboards, and at least one local university was able to partially fry an egg on a sidewalk (not an easy task, mind you). In my own car, some glues melted on some patch jobs I did last year.

So you're really not that far off. An overwhelming 95% or more of all "disc rot" is bogus, caused by stupid handling, poor up-front testing, and using crappy playback equipment. But hey, it's easy to blame a disc!

[gll99]

I keep my discs in the main living quarters on bookshelves but in closed containers. No direct heat source or sun hitting those areas just expected everyday temps where people live. No basement or garage storage. In other words no extremes so any degradation should be natural.

Important stuff is backed at minimum duplicate and some family digital photos and dv videos are in triplicate and as someone said I even used different brands for some when I wasn't sure about the media. Anything on rewritable, although it's been pretty reliable, is also expendable so I don't count on it for the long haul because it is designed to be rewritten so I suspect that it is less durable between burns. I just cycle those to timeshift tv shows since I don't own a pvr.

[Chopmeister]

Maybe so far I have just been been lucky - the discs I use don't rate as particularly good in the formus here (media code is CMC - which I think is China Media Corporation), however I have burned a couple of hundred over the last 2-3 years, mostly in a stand-alone Panasonic DVD recorder, and have yet to have one go bad on me. in contrast to some Sony discs that were supposed to be high quality but which had about a 30% fail rate and which I abandoned quickly. I stick with them because they appear to work, are reasonably priced, and we don't have that many media purchase options here (in New Zealand).

As far as storage, I store them in padded DVD zip up folders that hold about 100 discs each and don't admits light, in a (cool & dry) room temperature cupboard under my stairs. I always understood that the worst enemies of DVDRs were (in order of importance) heat, UV light and damp. So far, by keeping them in soft binder sleeves out of the light, and away from heat, they seem to be holding up just fine.

I have grand ambitions of XVIDing the lot and putting them on a media server, but at several hundred discs (yay pay TV which I nearly always record because of limited viewing time and crappy scheduling) it is a bit impractical.

[dcsos]

I store them in padded DVD zip up folders that hold about 100 discs each

In the states we call this a CD WALLET

[Snakebyte1]

You also need to be careful of the wallet. The plastic used in the sleeves can react with the disc. I got a 150 CD Binder for Christmas one year and put my CDRs in. About a year later when I went to use a CD I noticed that where ever the clear plastic on the sleeve/pouch touched the underside of a CD it was fogged. (There were little flaps at the top of the pouch that I didn't bother to tuck the CD under).

With the crap products coming out of China these days, you can't trust anything.