Best hardware mpeg2 encoder (under 700 $)?

[Speed Demon]

Hi,

I have been looking for information on the web for hours now and start to get insane. Can anybody tell me just which encoder is the best for my needs?

Here's what I want:

- superb video / audioquality (good, not cheap analog/digital converters)
- PCM (WAV) audio support
- if possible: TBC including a sharpness controller
- cinch and s-video in
- PCI or USB
- no 4 GB limit
- no missing frames or synchro problems

I read the Canopus cards are quite good, but they alone have several cards and I don't know which one would be good.

Thank you very much!

[Speed Demon]

any hint? Thanks...

[guns1inger]

No, but I can give you a tip - wait at least 24 hours before bumping your own posts or a mod will spank you.

[olyteddy]

<--<-- You could start with the list on the left. Filter for Hardware encoding and that narrows it down a bit. Most have clicks throughs to the manufacturer.

[yoda313]

recommend you look into a hauppauge card either 250 or 350 for starters.

One note - the 4gig file limitation is due to fat32 file system not the capture card. You have to have an NT system like win2000 or xp and above to be able to record files larger than 4gigs assuming you format the drive to ntfs.

[Soopafresh]

Plextor TV 402 U is supposed to have a great Mpeg2 hardware encoder. It is external USB 2.0. Only $150US

Any inexpensive solution will not have all of the features you want. The Canopus ADVC-300 has excellent capture and video stabilization capabilities, but no MPEG2 hardware encoder built in. Perhaps you can use it with the Plextor. It sells for $450 http://www.videoguys.com/ADVC.html#advc300

[Speed Demon]

Hm thank you, but there are Canopus Mpeg-2-Encoder cards which have a TBC corrector. I just have no idea which of them has the latest mpeg-2-hardware and good analog/digital converts. Doesn't anybody know a model which has been tested and classified as very good?

[edDV]

Explain your needs. There are multple cards targeted to different consumer or business segments.

I'm not up to date on retail hardware products but you up your odds by defining your source and what you want.

[Speed Demon]

OK, here are my needs: I have hundreds of VHS cassettes that still have a value to me (family movies, live concerts etc.). All of these recordings cannot be bought on DVD, of course (I wouldn't bother transfering them if they would be available).

I know VHS isn't the best source there is, still in my opinion it doesn't make it better if you don't put any effort in transfering it in good quality. Also, the sound of my HiFi-tapes is really good and apart of minor distortions sometimes it's almost CD quality, thus I capture it with PCM. I had people tell me a hundred times they don't believe a VHS source needs to be captured in PCM, but I can't agree.

Anyway, back to topic... that's just why I want an encoder as stated above. Any recommendations? As I said, it could cost over 500$, it would be worth it to me.

[edDV]

I share your need and have a pallet of good VHS/S-VHS ore to mine, much of it one of a kind.

There is no short cut. So far I'm using S-VHS players and a Canopus ADVC-100 to DV format (yes PCM audio) but consider these just an emergency backup. I think better capture solutions will emerge for better quality VHS/S-VHS transfer.

I'd consider a mass MPeg2 transfer to be just a preview. That is, unless it passes my quality requirement.

Best so far is capture to DV format and enhance before encoding MPeg2.

But that's just me.

[victoriabears]

Having spent years on this subject, if the vhs source is good qualitym try a pansonic vhs to dvd combo, along the lines of:-

http://product.ebay.com/Panasonic-DMR-ES46VS-DVD-Recorder-VCR-Combo_W0QQfvcsZ2017QQsoprZ55051160

it depends how far you wanna go, not many good vhs sources need a tbc and I have found that using a dvd recorder and then taking the re-writable disc to your computer for editing is best and simplest.

Capture cards have never worked as well for me and it ties up your computer and you need a good one for capturing. I've tried advc300, hauppage pvr 350, and if you have the patience and time , yes they can be made to work very well, but its not as easy as a dvd recorder.

[edDV]

I agree the DVD recorder is the most productive way to back up VHS/S-VHS but I know more quality can be extracted for the "best stuff".

[Speed Demon]

I do have a Panasonic DVD recorder already (DMR EH 65) and yes, quality is very good. My problem is that it would take way too much time to capture the VHS on DVD-RW - I have 250 tapes and a DVD-RW doesn't even hold a complete 4 h tape, but only 2 h (in good quality) or even only 1 h (PCM).

If I had nothing else to do, I would even consider it, but if you think about it's impossible if you have a job and want more from live than capturing VHS .

I agree, the DV cards would be a good idea (first capture in DV and then enhance it by software), but again I would do that if I had say 20 tapes, not 250. I really need a solution to have it directly transfered to mpeg-2.

Hm, maybe it's difficult to find someone who knows about a very good mpeg-2 encoder card, because noone would spend 500 $ for it? There must be one out there .

[guns1inger]

Even a good mpeg2 encoder card isn't going to do much more than a good DVD Recorder. What edDV is trying to explain is that most tapes, even fairly good ones, need some sort of work before finally encoding and authoring for DVD. No hardware encoder is going to provide this for you, even with a TBC and Proc Amp. And having those pieces of kit as part of your base requirements means you won't find much, if anything, under $700. Having a built-in TBC and Proc Amp puts you into the semi-pro to pro camp, and ups the $$$s required. And even a good mpeg-2 encoder card isn't going to get 4 hours onto a single disc without compromise.

I don't believe you are being realistic in your expectations. You are also contradicting yourself when you say

. . . in my opinion it doesn't make it better if you don't put any effort in transfering it in good quality . . .

and then disregard any advice that says you have to put some effort in.

The best you are ever going to get is real-time transfer, and that is if you do nothing with your tapes but encode them. Realistically, even with a TBC and Proc Amp in the chain, you will not get the best results possible on a lot of your tapes, and will still have to work on them. If they do require extra processing once in the PC, then mpeg-2 is one of the worst formats to capture in.

If you want it simple, buy a second hand tbc/proc amp on ebay, use a DVD recorder and DL discs, and be happy with a one pass process and whatever results it produces.

But if you want to wring the best possible quality out of your tapes then you need the hardware, you need the software, and you need to give it the time it requires. There is no short cut.

[Speed Demon]

Hm, maybe I should have better explained what I meant.

I don't believe you are being realistic in your expectations. You are also contradicting yourself when you say

. . . in my opinion it doesn't make it better if you don't put any effort in transfering it in good quality . . .

and then disregard any advice that says you have to put some effort in.

OK, "effort" might have been the wrong word... I meant effort in the sense setting up the right equipment before starting the VHS->DVD transfer. I spent months finding the right VHS recorder for example.

I know what you mean by having to proceed like you explained (all the software enhancement on PC). Believe me, I am the absolute perfectionist for that matter (always wanting the best quality there is).

Still, I just realized it is impossible for me to make all these enhancements (noise reduction, edge enhancement) by software, maybe spending 20 hours or so for one tape.

All I want is the best realtime VHS-> mpeg2 solution there is. And also, I don't want it on DVD or Dual-Layer-DVDs as most of recordings aren't in any order, so I want them on a HDD so I can edit them one day when I have time (maybe when I retire ).

Thank you for your thoughts on that topic, but I really thought about it a lot already and I am sure about what I want. Please, could you just give me a solution for what I mentioned above - to some it up again:
- hardware mpeg-2 encoder card which has
- a very good analog/digital converter
- latest mpeg-2 hardware (maybe comparable to a standalone DVD recorder like the Panasonic recorders)
- both of the latter points resulting in very good image and sound quality
- PCM recording possible
- captured directly to mpeg-2
- built in TBC with sharpness control

Thank you!

[guns1inger]

I can't offer you any solutions to what you want. Why ?

1. Mpeg-2 is a poor choice for archiving, processing and editing. It is an end storage solution.

2. I have yet to see a DVD Recorder match a good software encoder for quality. The lower quality thresh hold is acceptable because of the real-time nature of the recording, however I would never use a DVD Recorder to record something I wanted the best quality out of.

3. Anything hardware based that contains what you have specified costs at least double, and up 10 times or more, your $700 limit.

[Speed Demon]

then why am I satisfied with the quality of my Panasonic DMR EH 65 which is (including a DVD burner and 250 GB HDD built in!) worth about 400 $??

I am not taking a lense searching for artefacts on my TV that might appear 1 time in an hour. I think the quality the recorder delivers is amazing and enough for me.

I am thankful that you guys discuss the topic with me, but I really don't get why you are constantly searching for things I might see in the wrong way instead of just accepting what I want .

[neomaine]

Speed Demon,

Why does your Panny cost $400 and a hardware encoder for your pc cost $100 - $150? Hard drive, power supply, display, electronics to make them all work together and firmware to take the place of capture software. My, considered ancient but very capable, ATI 7200 32meg DDR that you can get now for $25 can do more than your Panny.

You think throwing money at a problem will give you the best solution. Sorry, doesn't work that way. It may sometimes, but not with the scenerio you've provided. With all do respect you're ignoring some excellent and experienced advice here from everyone.

Take the $550 dollar difference and take a little time to relax. Or, if you really think spending $700 will make you feel better, I'd gladly charge you $700 for a card that will do what you want... My anniversary is tomorrow and the holidays are coming up so I could use some extra money.

Really though, this reply is some tongue-in-cheek and some straight up advice. In the end, I'm not sure why your convinced that $700 is where your solution lies. It really is in the $75-$150 range.

(Personally, I've always used the ATI AIW Radeon's with great success. I just figure out how long the video segment is, schedule the MMC software to capture for that lenght, press play on the vcr, press record on the capture software and leave it alone. Sometimes add video soap for some noise cleanup or other tweakin. Maybe use a cheap 'video stablizer' if the card incorrectly picks up macrovision...)

[edDV]

I've gone into technical detail on this before but an optimized capture solution for VHS/S-VHS is still lacking. These signals are noisy with narrow color under bandwidth, unlocked color vs luminance and have major timebase error. Nearly all current capture devices are designed for TV capture that has locked color, full chroma bandwidth and zero timebase error.

An optimal capture device would be a VHS/S-VHS player with integrated timebase correction and DSP. It would have IEEE-1394 in/out (with DV camcorder emulation) in addition to normal analog in/out (S-Video and component). The IEEE-1394 could feed an MPeg2 DVD recorder or a computer for DV format editing.

Further, it would include an optional automated tape loader and computer interface for unattended automated recording. The idea is you load it and program it for recording up to 10 tapes/session.

Most of the quality improvement comes from a single A/D with integrated timebase correction, levels correction and chroma conditioning and then digital (DV format with uncompressed PCM audio) out. This avoids another D/A A/D loop as currently required.

I think there are enough VHS gold miners out there to provide a market for this type of VCR.

[TheFamilyMan]

An optimal capture device would be a VHS/S-VHS player with integrated timebase correction and DSP. It would have IEEE-1394 in/out (with DV camcorder emulation) in addition to normal analog in/out (S-Video and component). The IEEE-1394 could feed an MPeg2 DVD recorder or a computer for DV format editing.

Further, it would include an optional automated tape loader and computer interface for unattended automated recording. The idea is you load it and program it for recording up to 10 tapes/session.

Most of the quality improvement comes from a single A/D with integrated timebase correction, levels correction and chroma conditioning and then digital (DV format with uncompressed PCM audio) out. This avoids another D/A A/D loop as currently required.

I think there are enough VHS gold miners out there to provide a market for this type of VCR.

There's your calling! Integrate these electronics into existing VCRs and start your ebay business. People will be giving you blank checks to get one: "If you build it, they will come". Of course, you'd have to get signed affidavits from your customers swearing that they'd use it only for "fair use" applications.

[edDV]

The JVC SR-MV55 came close but didn't provide IEEE-1394 out from VHS/SVHS.
http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/DVD/desc/combo_comparison07.pdf

[dLee]

Yes, I want one.

The edDVCR.

Where do I send my deposit?

[edDV]

Big computer hard drives are making this possible. A single SP session (10 tapes) would generate up to 260GB of DV. Worse case EP (6hr. per tape x 10 tapes) would generate 780GB of DV format for editing.

[dLee]

The storage problem, along with the time required to filter, edit and author, have made me very selective about what VHS / Hi8 material I work on.

The personal stuff is a no brainer. But of all the TV and movies I've saved over the years, only one title (out of 100+) has not been released on DVD with much better quality.

I can come close to the edDVCR by chaining my JVC SR-V101US to my Sony GV D200 firewire out to the computer / DVD Recorder. If I cap with Enosoft DV Encoder, that would get me close to the ideal, except I have to be the automated tape loader.

JVC VCR to my ATI AIW 9800Pro still works well for straight mpeg captures.

[edDV]

Yes, it comes down to project flow and I'm looking at about 160 cubic ft of VHS/S-VHS tapes. Less than 1% are commercial and those don't count. I know there is gold in there.

[dLee]

It sounds like you need to hire an editorial assistant.

[olyteddy]

http://www.conexant.com/products/entry.jsp?id=146 links to Conexant, the maker of probably the best MPEG real-time encoder chips. Perhaps you could find out who uses which. For starters I know my Hauppauge is a CX23416.

[Speed Demon]

Speed Demon,

Why does your Panny cost $400 and a hardware encoder for your pc cost $100 - $150? Hard drive, power supply, display, electronics to make them all work together and firmware to take the place of capture software. My, considered ancient but very capable,

No, what I meant is the 400 $ are very cheap having such a good quality.

Anyway, thanks... the hint above (Canopus 300) was indeed very good. Maybe I'll buy that one and combined it with an mpeg-2 hardware card. The plextor had some problems to keep the video and sound synchronous though... but I'm sure there's another good card...