Another AVI to DVD convert thread

[Hunter_Thompson]

Hi Everyone,

Yet another thread on converting avi files to DVD. Please know I am not just posting, I have been reading other posts!

I have been trying to perfect my DVD conversion method for years now, and it is still very difficult to burn a DVD that has no problems with glitches or picture-to-audio sync. I have read reams of pages of forum posts, tried dozens of applications and tweaks, and still I am making coasters.

I have a Dual Core E6700, 2 GIG of ram, over a terabyte of SATA drive space, a 16 x DVD Burner, good quality media, all the appropriate audio video codec’s and a PCIe 256Mb video card.

Fresh install of Windows XP, with Nero 7 Ultra edition installed. This suite has Nero Vision 4, and for most conversions it is glitching a frame every second. If you watch a panning camera shot, you can see every second or so the smooth pan “stops still” for a very brief moment. You cannot really tell if it happening with a stationary camera and say, dialogue but on moving images such as driving or flying scenes it is very annoying.

Then there are some titles that are falling out of picture to audio sync. These still exhibit the skipped frame every second, but also have an amount of drift to the sync; it seems fine for the first 20 to 30 minutes but then gradually gets worse, with the picture getting ahead of the audio. I find that the audio sync drift occurs mainly on DVD's that have several episodes on them with a DVD menu for episode navigation. For example, I have been trying to create multi-episode compilation DVD's of “Weeds” season two and “Penn & Teller: Bullshit!” season five; both of these attempts have resulted in unwatchable audio sync. Reviewing the original avi files shows no sign of picture to audio drift.

To try and eliminate as many variables from this equation, I would render the DVD files to a hard disk folder and then burn these files with Nero Burning Rom. Then I could go back to these vob files on the hard disc to see if they exhibit the same glitches as the DVD discs (playing them in my Playstation 2). I can confirm the hard drive vob files are showing these same glitches – the stopped frame every second, and the audio drift. From this synopsis I can establish it may be the Nero Vision encoding process that is to blame, and not my burning program, hardware burner or blank media – if the glitch is in the vob file, then it will be on everything else after that point of the process. One of the many tweaks I have tried with no success is disabling all the Nero codecs.

These are the same symptoms of many others who have posted in the above mentioned forums, so I decided to spend a bit of reading time trying to see if someone had similar problems and had posted a fix. As usual, no-one seems to have the exact same problem and there are 5 different suggestions that have worked for some and not for others. Geez, this DVD conversion / authoring game is still not as solid as I thought it may become. With a new consumer standard already upon us (BluRay/HD DVD), you would think being able to convert an avi to DVD would be as easy as burning an audio CD. Silly me for thinking that!

So in my research of previous posts I found several other users of Nero Vision finding alternative applications that worked for them. The first suggestion I investigated was WinAVI converter. I used this program about a year ago, found it very fast and good quality – but no menu creation. It did allow multiple episodes on one disc but you had to fast forward to the end of the program to get to the next – very frustrating. So I figure I’ll try WinAVI again, and installed it on my new PC. The program asked for a few missing codec’s to be installed, I complied and got them on my machine. Every type of file I try to convert with WinAVI is producing black screens with no sound. Uninstalled it and keep researching.

Next most common suggestion as an alternative to Nero Vision was VSO ConvertXtoDVD. The claim was that this was working where Vision was not, and while not fancy, it did give menu options and was very quick. I have been using this application for a few days and have experienced the following issue – at about 1 hour into the DVD playback, there is a massive glitch, and it skips forward about 20-30 seconds. This happens on every file I try to convert, and does not happen in the original AVI file. I have a suspicion that it is when the dvd player switches between vob files, but have to review the vob files on my PC to confirm this. So I am now converting a file to DVD and am keeping the vob files on the hard drive to compare to the dvd burn. I have a feeling the glitch will be in the vob files, but will confirm or deny this ASAP.

I know there are heaps of others out there experiencing the same kind of frustrations. I have read their anguish time and time again in posts much like this one and hope that there is another avenue I can try to get closer to good DVD creation.

I know about the alternatives to burning DVD’s, like getting a video card on my PC with a TV out (have tried this), or getting a DVD player that reads DivX files... but I like being able to have authored DVD’s to watch as they seem better quality, have a bigger picture on my TV (I fricken hate widescreen DVD rips) and it's handy when watching multi-episodal programs that can be navigated with a menu. Plus my roommate has an old school Xbox and he likes to borrow DVD’s to watch on that.

Thanks for taking the time to read my long post, I just wanted to make clear my symptoms as this whole conversion and burning process has so many variables, I wanted to clarify as much as possible. Any suggestions or hints would be hugely appreciated!

[Soopafresh]

Good Files In=Good Files Out

1) Run your original AVIs through http://divfixpp.sourceforge.net/ or AVI_Gain_regular.bat https://forum.videohelp.com/topic314909.html . This will help eliminate the audio errors and glitches, as long as the files aren't too far damaged. Use the fixed or Normalized files to feed into your encoder.

2) Install Avisynth 2.58 http://downloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/AviSynth_070518.exe?modtime=1179503068&big_mirror=0

3) Use FAVC to encode - Illustrated guide halfway down this page:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic334629.html

[guns1inger]

I know this is going to sound like a smart-arse comment, but I can't think of any other way to phrase it - I have been doing this for years, and frankly glitches and problems are very infrequent exceptions.

I second Soopafresh's suggestion of FAVC for creation - very nice tool, great quality output. If you want something faster, look at ConvertXtoDVD, although it is not free.

I would not touch WinAVI, DVD Santa or NeroVision Express with a barge pole. I know not every one agrees with me on this, but I have found none of these to be of high quality, or particularly reliable.

Never format convert. If you soruce is PAL, encode PAL. If your source is NTSC, encode NTSC. Format conversion using one-click tools will give you jerky results.

No converter will give perfect results with every video. Downloaded source is so variable in quality (both image and encoding) and subject to so many factors that glitches and damage do occur. Playback requirements are different to encoding requirements, and playback is often more tolerant of minor glitches than encoding will be.

And I just can't agree with you on Widescreen being a problem. If it was shot in widescreen, it should be watched in widescreen. And trying to encode it so it fills the screen will reduce quality because you have to enlarge the frame so much more to do so.

Finally, use good quality media and burn with imgburn.

[Hunter_Thompson]

Good Files In=Good Files Out

Yes, I agree. That is why whenever a glitch happens on a DVD playback I like to go and check (a) the original AVI file, and it always is fine and (b) the vob files on the hard drive.

1) Run your original AVIs through http://divfixpp.sourceforge.net/ or AVI_Gain_regular.bat https://forum.videohelp.com/topic314909.html . This will help eliminate the audio errors and glitches, as long as the files aren't too far damaged. Use the fixed or Normalized files to feed into your encoder.

2) Install Avisynth 2.58 http://downloads.sourceforge.net/avisynth2/AviSynth_070518.exe?modtime=1179503068&big_mirror=0

3) Use FAVC to encode - Illustrated guide halfway down this page:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic334629.html

Thanks for all these tips, will try them all tonight. The DIVFIX program looks very interesting, I have always wondered how to compress the dynamic range of audio streams on certain DVD's - I mean watching The Matrix late at night with people asleep in the next room is a joke - the dialogue is a whimper and the gun shots wake everyone up, so I have been wondering about a tool to squash the audio program. But does it do anything else? Why would an avi be more solid after running through this app? Is the output file bigger than the input? I have actually beenb running an analogue compressor on my DVD's audio lines for this.

Avisynth - what does it do, what do I do with it? Just install it?

Will try FAVC to encode stuff tonight, looks pretty simple - how does the menu it creates look? Able to customise your own background image / music?

Thanks for all your advice!

[Hunter_Thompson]

I know this is going to sound like a smart-arse comment, but I can't think of any other way to phrase it - I have been doing this for years, and frankly glitches and problems are very infrequent exceptions.

No, I don't think you're a smart-arse (So can tell you are an aussie when you spell arse like that) but I do think you are a lucky SOB. I have had several computers and applications for conversion over the years and I have never had a configuration that can convert whatever you throw at it without issues, so to know that you have a system that works more often than not is pleasing news, I know that it can be done.

I second Soopafresh's suggestion of FAVC for creation - very nice tool, great quality output. If you want something faster, look at ConvertXtoDVD, although it is not free.

Fast encoding is not as important as good encoding (duh) so if this app is solid without glitches it is for me. In myy original post you may notice I am currently using ConvertXtoDVD, and it is better than Nero Vision but still has the "el-whoppo" big glitch about 1 hour in to the program.

I would not touch WinAVI, DVD Santa or NeroVision Express with a barge pole. I know not every one agrees with me on this, but I have found none of these to be of high quality, or particularly reliable.

As mentioned in my OP I have used WinAVI in the past with success, but a recent attempt to install it and convert some files resulted in black screens in the vob files.

Never format convert. If you soruce is PAL, encode PAL. If your source is NTSC, encode NTSC. Format conversion using one-click tools will give you jerky results.

But I have a PAL TV, a Playstation 2 (PAL) and no way of converting NTSC to PAL on the fly. I have no doubt you have way more knowledge on this whole process but I do not think this is a factor - 95% of what I download to convert is NTSC and this never was in issue (some of the few successful conversions I have done were definitely NTSC converted into PAL). If I cannot convert PAL to NTSC then I'll just give up now!

No converter will give perfect results with every video. Downloaded source is so variable in quality (both image and encoding) and subject to so many factors that glitches and damage do occur. Playback requirements are different to encoding requirements, and playback is often more tolerant of minor glitches than encoding will be.

But if the source plays fine, the conversion should be fine??? Crap in, crap out.... gold in should be gold out?

And I just can't agree with you on Widescreen being a problem. If it was shot in widescreen, it should be watched in widescreen. And trying to encode it so it fills the screen will reduce quality because you have to enlarge the frame so much more to do so.

Well I am not selecting this it just seems that widescreen DVDs played back on my PS2 get more picture that playing back the files on my computer. This is just the nature of playing DVD's on the PS2, nothing to do with the conversion.

Thanks again for the posts, guys. Really keen to try anything, just want a stable proceedure.

Finally, use good quality media and burn with imgburn.

Tried all the brands, currently using TDK and Verbatim. Have never used imgburn, will try it tonight!

[guns1inger]

Unless your TV is particularly old, it will happily play NTSC. Pretty much anything sold in Australia (TVs, DVD players etc) in the last 10 years will play both formats. Can't vouch for the PS2, but then it's not a DVD player, just console with something extra thrown in for the sake of it.

[Hunter_Thompson]

My TV plays NTSC but the PS2 will not - it is black and white if I try.

Hey, there are a couple of options I could investigate to play my avi files on the TV, but I really would like to get a solid conversion to DVD sussed out.

I will try all the suggestions made by yourself and soopafresh this evening, hope to post back a positive result. Thanks again for the posts, anyone else with an opinion or suggestion please fire away. I am sure there are a few people in the same boat as me watching this thread too - chime in.

[Soopafresh]

Running your source AVIs through the Avi_Gain_Soopa_Loud.bat script will add dynamic range compression in addition to normalization to your audio. At least all of your shows will have the exact same volume - a big plus so you don't have to go scrambling for the remote between programs. It also will give you a good idea of the condition of your source file. If it doesn't remux completely, or fails during processing, you can be reasonably sure it'll fail during encoding to mpeg.

[guns1inger]

The author of FAVC was talking about the use of pulldown for smoother NTSC -> PAL conversion. I don't know if this has been implemented yet, or just something he plans to do. If it does work this way then the conversions will be as good as you can get.

[Mr_Odwin]

FAVC does currently use pulldown for 23.976 ->25. But "rarer" frame rates like 24, or 20 etc, are just converted with blending or duplicate frames.
(Additonally, if a telecined 29.97 source is detected, inverse telecine is applied and then a pulldown from 23.976->25.)

[guns1inger]

Very nice to know. Any particular reason why other framerates don't get pulldown applied ?

[Mr_Odwin]

Not got round to it yet.
I will eventually.

[Hunter_Thompson]

I could not get FAVC to run (I think I have a virus, which is a whole other thread... don't worry I'm fresh installing XP soon) but did everything else, and just used ConvertXtoDVD for the encode/burn.

P E R F E C T I O N

I have only tried one title (Matrix Reloaded) so I am now going to encode as many files as I can and check it is stable across different media and files.

Will post my findings, but this instruction set has me watching perfect glitch free DVD's on my PS2.

And it was a movie over 2 hours long and it was solid until the credits...

[Hunter_Thompson]

Here I am thinking I am trying all the different techniques and troubleshooting methods to figure out the cause of my problems, and the most obvious thing slipped my mind. Media. Took some blanks home from work and guess what - no glitch. Burned same program on one of my blank DVD's from my spindle, GLITCH! Bad batch.

On another note . . .
I downloaded some TV shows the other day, all MKV format - what's this? The play fine in my media player of choice, JetAudio, without new codecs. But is this like a new format that is up-and-coming? Seems OK... but I thought MP4 was the new kid on the block....

Anyway I am now converting perfectly - thanks for all the tips!!!

[guns1inger]

mkv is, like avi, a container format. It is simply a different way of storing video and audio data, and is more flexible than avi when it comes to multiple audio tracks, subtitles, and also allows the storage of other objects such as cover art stills. mkv can have Divx/Xvid/AVC etc encoded video and MP3/AC3/AAC/ogg encoded audio. For basic video/audio storage I don't believe it is any better than a standard avi container, and takes more effort to get it to play back (splitters etc need to be installed). However for AVC/AAC it seems to be a better format.