For betatesters:TMPGenc 2.51:At last equal quality with CCE!

[silab]

I cant find the template you are talking about.

I downloaded the plus version but the supervideo cd template is still 480x576

[SatStorm]

@kinneera: Thanks for the link (and the infos you share!!!). Yeah, I know that only some people have DVD-R burners, but I hoped someone could test that simply thing....
About the compatibility, I believe that the most DVD standalones out there gonna have no problem with gop limitations. The true problem are some players from big names, like Sony... They play nothing out of standards... And guess what, people buy them...

@baker: Why you don't test it yourself? Why you (and almost all of us) wait others to do it first? And IF the first opinions are faulty?
But you want an answer, so I'll give you one: Using the standard SuperVideoCD (PAL) - MPEG2 352x576 VBR 1020kbps.mcf with TMPGenc Plus, I saw no blocks on my tests, except on an extreme moving screen...
Now, maybe I am blind, or my nokia 29'' TV sucks, and I am wrong.
Report what you see when you do your tests, please!

@silab: Look inside the "wizard" folder

[xleroy]

To Satstorm :

In fact you need to consider 3 levels to get the answer to your question :

1 - What about the Mpeg Encoder. Each encoder has its own way of doing. May I remind you that Mpeg is a Decoder Standard, not an encoder Standard. Ok to simplify we suppose that we all use the same TmpgEnc encoder (by the way, which version 12a, 12b 20a, 25, 25+ ??)

2 - The second level is the Authoring one. To make a step forward you, I have tested CVD with 2 Dvd Authoring. One accepts it (Spruce), not the second one ( Ulead Dvd Factory). Which one is wrong.

3 - The third level is the Dvd player. Obviously there are many ways to design it. And even with the same chip you can have customized options.

My answer to your question is simple : sometimes it will work, sometimes it will not work. Does this satisfy you ?

xly

[SatStorm]

@xleroy: Hi, welcome to the forum. Are you from America?

Seems like you didn't show the right attention in my post

1 - The post determine that this test is for tmpgenc 2.51
2 - Authoring: That is a software thing. Software based on standards and parameters. We know the standards and parameters of DVD - Video. If some programs don't support all of them, that ain't necessary means it is out of standard. The hardware makes determines, the software adapts! Microsoft tries to do the opposite, but look around: People start using alternatives....
3. - Yes, that's why I search for the bigest possible compatibility. I do know that DVD players compatible with SVCD will play those files, but then we have CVD on DVD-R discs. I want D2 DVD - Video on DVD-/+ R(W) discs. Can you understand the difference?


So my answer to your answer is: No, working something correct with my DVD player, doesn't satisfy me. I want to create media playable to most players out there.

[disturbed1]

D2? You mean 1/2 D1 (352x480). Fully part of the DVD Video spec, as is 720x480, 704x480 (for mpeg2), and 352x240 (for mpeg1).

GOP restraints are according to your authoring program. Some (most of Sonic's packages) don't allow for GOP's with a frame distance between I frames larger than 18. And each GOP has to have a sequence header.

SVCD (Philips's specs) allow for GOP's upto 38 frames in length.

VCD (for the VCD Toolkit) allows for GOP's upto 2 seconds.

General recomendations are GOP's of 12 frames for Film/PAL. And 15 frames for NTSC. Or 1/2 fps for quality reasons. The more P and B frames you have, the higher the compression.

I think Sonic took their specs from old MPEG1 restraints that say a GOP can not be larger than 18 frames in order to follow the "Constrained Parameter" set.

[SatStorm]

You didn't read the whole post, did you?

D1: Full Hor resolution (720)
Broadcast D1: 704 Hor resolution
D2: Half Hor resolution (352)

The gops you mention for VCD/SVCD creation. DVD structure differs....
That's was the main reason of the post: If mpeg 2 files created with the new tmpgenc 2.51 and the new tempates is playable when you burn them (after authore them) to DVD-/+ R(W), as D2 DVD

[disturbed1]

You didn't read the whole post, did you?

Yes, I did, now re-read my post.

1/2 D1=352x480.

Same as 480x480 is 2/3 D1

If D1=704x480, one half of it would be 352x480.

GOP restraints are according to your authoring program. Some (most of Sonic's packages) don't allow for GOP's with a frame distance between I frames larger than 18. And each GOP has to have a sequence header. <--- That is pertaining to DVD authoring packages.


The SVCD and VCD info was thrown in for the others that had commented on their structure in the posts above.

[SatStorm]

Well, then my friend Kineerra was right!
720 X 576 is CCIR-601 and 704 X 576 is D1...
I learn a new thing any day
Thanks both of you!!!!!!!!!

So, beyond software and authoring software aplications, and because you look like you know the subject well, you believe also (like kineerra) that there gonna be no problem with mpeg 2 files with huge gop structure when you burn them on DVD-R discs as DVD-D2?

[disturbed1]

If you can get your authoring software to support it, you shouldn't have too many problems.

I know the DVD it series doesn't except long GOP's. 18 frames max.

I'd look towards Scenarist, DVD Maestro, or other semi/pro authoring sources.

Or just use normal GOP's less than 18 frames.

You can also use ReMpeg to study the GOP structure of commercial DVD GOP's. That will can help to shed some light on how "they" do their GOPs.

Most I've seen also follow the same >=18 frames per GOP. Even more use closed GOP's which allow for easier navigation.

[SatStorm]

So, we are back to the start....
CVD mpeg 2 files with Huge gops ain't playable when you burn them as DVD - D2, because of DVD Video limitations, probably based on authoring software or DVD Video parameters, we don't really know yet.
The point is, if TMPGenc split long gops correctly...
Only tests will show...

Also, I don't want to use small gops. The new tmpgenc templates are based on BIG gopes. I want to use those templates for CVD today and d2 DVD tomorrow, without re-encoding (only re-muxing/audio resampling). The quality is excellent for mainstream use.

Anyway, let end this topic here, is uselless....
Have Fun

[sean madison]

i see everyone is talking about the quality of tmpgenc vs cce only in VBR aspects.

Can the v tmpgenc 2.51 encode using CQ_VBR with same specs look better in quality that previous tmpgenc v lets say v 2.01?

[markdf]

I cant find the template you are talking about.

I downloaded the plus version but the supervideo cd template is still 480x576

I can't find the template either, so I have changed the resoultion to 352 x 576 and encoding now. I doubt it will work, but I'll give it a go.

[Truman]

Have a look at the template\wizard subdir.