Wanting to get a Sony DCR-TRV740 camcorder.

[Undead Sega]

Hi, i am wanting to get a Sony DCR-TRV740 camcorder.

i knowing that it is the last line of Sony camcorders if the Digital 8. because of this as well, they are no longer sold that much in hte stores and markets around here, and have to look in hard places to gain it.

probably another reason is that the quality of the camcorder is of high quality, and this relates to peolpe saying 'why dont u just get a HD cam??' and my reply would obviously be 'i just simply cannot afford it'. and saying that the camcorder's quality is excellent, when i come to the HD situation, i can always upscale it to my theory which will retain the original quality 99%.

i also was reading reviews about this cam, and all was good, except that it doesnt offer much Manual adjusting, like White Balance, which is set on Auto. However, i have read there is a way to modify the cam to the software it uses to switch to Manual, may i ask if this is true or possible whatsoever?

and i would like to know if u would recommend this camcorder highly? cause i have looked at other examples like the TRV480, but the TRV740 ticks all the boxes for me, as they have higher quaity specs and is more 'film-like' giving excellent video quality which is exactly what i want and need.

i would really appreciate it if anyone can offer their opinion to htis and wil carry on further on this aswell that i will say this here for now.

thanks, i will look forward to what u lot have to say

[Richard_G]

As you are in the UK, it would be the E suffix models you would be looking at. The only Digital8 currently made by Sony is the TRV270E which is pretty basic. Your best bet would be to try Jessops or any of the other bigger High Street photgraphic shops that do secondhand equipment and see if they have a model you want in stock in one of their branches. I only mention Jessops as I know that all of their shops will take equipment in part ex and will sell it on with a full warranty.

[Undead Sega]

ahhh i see then, so more or less i should be looking for the Sony DCR-TRV740E?

[Undead Sega]

also may i ask, because i see many of them on ebay from the US, and that they use the system NTSC, is there a way at all to like either convert it or flash the software to make it all PAL?

also regarding on modifying on making selection from Auto to Manual.

anyone may i ask?

[JimboS]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=PAL+digital8+camcorders&ci=1820&sb...arch&Q=*&bhs=t

[Richard_G]

Don't both even thinking about an NTSC version, the camcorder cannot be modified, NTSC is an inferior standard and converting to PAL will reduce it even further.

You should be looking at any of the higher end E suffix models. Sites like www.camcorderinfo.com will give specs for the different models (and sometimes also mention E models) and they are largely the same. If a particular model is listed as having manual white balance, the the E suffix version will also. Bear in mind that E suffix models often have the DV and analogue inputs disabled in case you have a need for this feature. This was only enabled on the higher end models (complicated reasons involving European Customs regulations, import tariff categories, market sector and retail prices).

Most of the TRV6xxE, TRV7xxE and TRV8xxE will do what you want. I actual use an earlier DCR-TR7000E, which, along with the TR8000E, have full manual control of virtually all settings, they just don't have the LCD screen (which I never use on my other camcorders anyway).

[Undead Sega]

i see then, well, it looks like no modification for me then i suppose, but would i trust the Auto White Balance on a Digital8 camcorder htan an older Hi8 cam?

and i do like the sound of TR7000E but without the LCD and being inefficnet to me and others who wish to see whats recorded instantly, and not to forget my mom's poor recording with or withput the LCD, it will have to be a no no on this one.

im wanting really the TRV740 and if im lucky, the TRV840. the only difference between them is a larger LCD screen on the 840 and its progressive, which i dont mind interlace on the 740 because i can always deinterlace it properly myself.

and to JimboS, that link gives me a TRV2xx series camcorder and none what i can find on the 740 there. not being rude of course.

and with hte E model, i think htat is there to distinguish between the NTSC and PAL models of the same camcorder.

and just came back from a carboot sale today, canot find any camcorder what any near specs im looking for.

is there any internet shops here that would sell them?

[Richard_G]

I don't know of any internet outlets in the UK but you could try contacting your nearest Jessops (www.jessops.co.uk) and seeing what is available in their second hand stock at shops around the country.

Alternatively, keep an eye on eBay and search throughout the EU, as the PAL, E suffix versions are sold throughout the EU (and a lot of the rest of the world, NTSC being an American thing). I've just searched and come up with these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Digital-Hi8-Camcorder-Sony-TRV820E_W0QQitemZ120150227167QQihZ002...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONY-DCR-TRV-725E-D8-Hi8-Vid-8-DV-OUT-1-Mio-Pix_W0QQitemZ3201481...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-DCR-TRV830E-1Million-Pixel-DV-in-Speicher-fuer-MS_W0QQitemZ...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-DCR-TRV-620e-Digital-8-Camcorder_W0QQitemZ300143205575QQihZ...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SONY-DCR-TRV-738E-D8-Hi8-Vid-8-DV-OUT-1-MegaPix_W0QQitemZ3201495...QQcmdZViewItem

[Undead Sega]

thats really great to see you know!

i totally fogot to do the German version of eBay, they always seem to have stuff what us PAL users are looking for.

right now, i have my eyes on the TRV830, but may i ask, how does it compare to the later TRV740 and TRV840?

[Richard_G]

No idea, but if you go to the Sony website you can download the users manuals in pdf format and compare different models.

When looking for this sort of thing I usually go to eBay UK but tell it to show listings over the whole EU (on the left side of the screen). Germany does seem to be a good place for video equipment, I've bought flight cases, spare batteries and tapes from German sellers. Prices are good too, the 820E at the top has now ended but sold for just over 100 quid.

I'm watching the 830E too as I thought it might be useul as a standby cam. Then, I thought about it a bit more and realised that with a VX2000E, a pair of VX700Es, the TR7000E and a couple of Hi8 camcorders too, I figured I don't really need any more (unless another VX2000E comes up at the right price!).

[Undead Sega]

i see, but i reackon i can get on par quality with your VX2000E with recording on a TRV740/830/840 and then digitizing it and running a couple of processes on VirtualDub and of course upscaling it using my Upscaling theory (which i have demostrated here with someone else showing the comparison: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic305974-30.html#1737248)

but i only have like a couple of days left with the TRV830, and i really want to know if it is just like the TRV740/840 but without the printer? and comparing technical wise with quality being the same.

[Richard_G]

As I said, I've no idea. Go to the Sony website and download (or view) the manual for the 830, 740 and 840 and see what the differences are.

and no, you will NEVER get VX2000E quality from any of the camcorders you are talking about. The 2000E is a 3CCD camcorder, the others (including my VX700Es) are single CCD. The other main difference is full manual control of everything. I don't have the time for any post processing. I shoot an event with 3 camcorders and end up with about 3 hours footage. This has to be transferred, edited, compiled into a full DVD of about 1.5 hours, menus created, chapter points inserted, disc artwork designed, DVD case sleeve insert designed, burned, packaged and 100 or so copies sent by courier within 28 days of the original shoot. All working in my spare time on top of the day job.....

[Undead Sega]

the quality of a TRV740/830/840 is pretty good as from what ive read, yes its only 1 CCD, but the Megapixels does help to try and come close.

i know u say u dont have time for post-processing, thats why i have my personal built computer to handle such things in short time, like White Balance correcter, Neat Video for noise reduction (which also can help bring up some hidden details when filtering also a great help for when upscaling) even if the noise in the cam will be minimal.

but i am impressed with using 3 camcorders, something would be a dream when wanting to film (as i am currently doing) without having to have the actors repeat themselves. and when i transfer my files to a computer, it will either be done by recording the footage onto a DVD through a DVD recorder at HQ (8000Kbs) then rippd onto the computer having convert the VOB files into a lossless AVI and edit them on Adobe Premiere Pro.

the disc artwork and sleeve is something i can do on my spare time after i am satified with the work ive done.

also, i can offer (very soon) upscaling footage to HD and using tips and tricks to burn HD-DVD onto an ordinary DVD using a DVD burner.

by the way, from the description u gave, if u dont mind me asking, what is ur day to day occupation?

[Richard_G]

Day job is Technical Investigation Officer for a government department in the communications and broadcasting sector (why, do I know you?), sideline is videographer specialising in stage shows. I shoot the same thing from 3 different angles with one camcorder fixed and the other two with operators to zoom in, pan and concentrate on specific parts of the stage. This then allows me to cut from one view to another once the three streams are synced to each other in the editor.

The Megapixels figure for a camcorder has no effect whatsoever on the quality of the video. DV (and D8) is 720 x 576 which works out to just over 400k pixels. That is all that is going to be used by the camcorder. The things that affect video quality are number and size of CCDs and optical performance. When manufacturers quote 2Mpixels for a camcorder, they are referring to the resolution when it is used for still shots and not video. As my interest in video came as a continuation of doing part time semi-pro photography, I already have a 12Mp Pro-spec Digital SLR and selection of lenses so, even though all of them are capable, I have never used any of my camcorders to take photographs. The 2000E has a slot for a Memory Stick to store stills on and I don't even have a memory stick to use in it!

Your method is not ideal and is going to reduce quality and restrict the editing you can do. Skip the DVD recorder stage as this will convert the footage to mpeg which is primarily an end product format. Most editing software, while it will edit mpeg, prefers to work with an uncompressed format. Due to the way mpeg is encoded, only one in every 12 frames is stored in it's entirety. This can lead to a loss of smoothness in fades, wipes, etc.

If shooting on MiniDV or Digital8 (as they are identical except for the actual tape used), transfer the footage over Firewire as DVavi. This is an exact copy of the digital data stored on the tape. Do all the editing as DVavi and once you are satisfied with the end result, then and only then, encode to DVD compliant mpeg before the authoring stage.

This assumes that DVD is your final output. If you are going to upscale it then don't even go near mpeg, go from DVavi to your chosen final output format so you have the minimum number of encodes.

[Undead Sega]

well i am very aware when i upscale i will never do MPEG compression, because, why?

and i dont really agree with DVAVI, i would use a lossless AVI codec like HUFFYUV, LAGS, or MSI Lossless codecs.

but thanks for acknowleging me about CCD, yes i know this and that, but not fully know it, but i assume with the quality with the TRV7/8xxE (being the last line of D8 camcorders), it should be all good then correct?

i am looking at the technical specs between the TRV830 and the TRV840, and the only thing i could see that is the difference is an onboard printer, please someone correct me on this.

apprantly its been said a filmaker fooled experts that his short film was filmed on Super16 when infact it was a Digital8 camcorder.

[Richard_G]

well i am very aware when i upscale i will never do MPEG compression, because, why?

But that is what you were doing by using a DVD recorder to capture.

and i dont really agree with DVAVI, i would use a lossless AVI codec like HUFFYUV, LAGS, or MSI Lossless codecs.

If your source is a DV camcorder, either MiniDV or Digital8, then the conversion to DVavi is done in the camcorder before it is recorded to tape. You've got no choice, it's DVavi or something inferior. No matter what you do, you will lose quality by encoding it further. You start with DVavi and then encode it with Huffyuv, why? Huffy may be lossless but it is still compression so the end result cannot be better than the original DVavi. Even if you were to do an analogue capture and encode with a lossless codec, the source of that analogue signal would be DVavi, converted from digital to analogue, captured and then converted back again.

You will NEVER get better quality from a digital camcorder than a DVavi transfer over Firewire.

As for the specs on the D8 camcorders, if CCD size is the same, it is going to be down to the lens. If they both have the same lens then there won't be anything to choose.

[Undead Sega]

If your source is a DV camcorder, either MiniDV or Digital8, then the conversion to DVavi is done in the camcorder before it is recorded to tape. You've got no choice, it's DVavi or something inferior. No matter what you do, you will lose quality by encoding it further. You start with DVavi and then encode it with Huffyuv, why? Huffy may be lossless but it is still compression so the end result cannot be better than the original DVavi. Even if you were to do an analogue capture and encode with a lossless codec, the source of that analogue signal would be DVavi, converted from digital to analogue, captured and then converted back again.

so more or less, either way, there wouldnt be a loss of quality anyways.

You will NEVER get better quality from a digital camcorder than a DVavi transfer over Firewire.

i dont quite understand that one, but i hear you would loose a very small percentage of quality if transfering over Firewire.

well, the auction has ended on the TRV830E, lost it big time, went for around £160, oh bugger.

and from your sideline, i take it you record stage shows (probably in the West End) for reference or for rehearsals or auditon type of things?

[Richard_G]

You will NEVER get better quality from a digital camcorder than a DVavi transfer over Firewire.

i dont quite understand that one, but i hear you would loose a very small percentage of quality if transfering over Firewire.

No, you lose NO quality as it is a transfer. The camcorder encodes to DVavi and stores the digital data on tape. The transfer is just that, a simple file transfer from one storage medium to another, tape to hard drive. It is no different to ripping a DVD from disc to hard drive or copying the contents of an external drive to hard drive. It is a file TRANSFER.

well, the auction has ended on the TRV830E, lost it big time, went for around £160, oh bugger.

Damn good price, had I had the slightest interest I'd have bought it for that. Anything under £300 is a good price for a camcorder of that spec.

and from your sideline, i take it you record stage shows (probably in the West End) for reference or for rehearsals or auditon type of things?

No, amateur productions, predominately dance shows and musicals, to sell copies to the performers and their families.

[Webster]

i dont quite understand that one, but i hear you would loose a very small percentage of quality if transfering over Firewire.

I think you are thinking about the loss from the compression to DVavi by the camera and not from transfer with firewire to the computer.
Once you got the file transfer to the computer, you can encode to DVD spec.
For what it worth, I do own a Sony DCR-TRV740. The quality of the recoding is much better than some of the so call DV camcorders on the market today. Also, you do have the option of shooting in fullscreen or widescreen format with this camera. And as an added bonus, you can use the camera as a pass-thru to digitize your analog video (at least for the US NTSC version anyway).
Webster.

[zoobie]

apprantly its been said a filmaker fooled experts that his short film was filmed on Super16 when infact it was a Digital8 camcorder

I think this statement alone is influencing your buying decision. Dig8 was meant to ease transition from analog to digital.

I noticed a lot of these cams are still being sold on ebay. My guess is to run off old hi8/8mm tapes and then resell the cam. If you go this route, make sure the cam is in good working order complete with battery, charger, etc. Sellers often claim the cam works perfectly but have no battery/charger or tape to test it which doesn't make sense.

Nevertheless, it's probably one of the least expensive ways to go digital with some good bargains to be found for the patient bidder.

[Undead Sega]

I think this statement alone is influencing your buying decision. Dig8 was meant to ease transition from analog to digital.

well, it is one of the reasons, but u must say, it is quite impressive, of course the person must have used something like the VX2000 or something slightly closer to the TRV840, like the TRV9XX series.

not to forget to mention, i can already assume, but please orrect me on this, i am currently working on a small film with my friednds we are making for fun with a Hitachi miniDVD camcorder, and there is no steadyshot of course and, when it camer to filming in dark scenes or areas, it does not capture very well, as details looks like they got washed out and seems quite dissapointing for a DVD cam.

from saying that, maybe the TRV7/840 can do a much better job, and isnt that battery draining as the miniDVD, even though the batteies are very small, im sure a tape camcorder uses less.

and despite that i hate SONY, i only credit them for making precise quality cameras, which are excellent, and they are now the only ones supporting their own format Digital8, and as for a fact that it is technically identical to MiniDV, i see that Digital8 has a more advantage over than MiniDV, why? because they both other excellent quality, if not, the same through technical terms, and because MiniDV cams are smaller, they seem now to be ever so small and makes it harder to get a steadyshot and parts becoming very small they are literally hearable, and that i have experienced and i was no very favourable with it.

also, there are a majority of D8 camcorders that can playback the older Video/Hi8 tapes which is very handy and makes a great choice for upgrading as well, especially when u want to digitize old footage in prestine quality.

£160 was a very good price, just didnt realise that i needed to place in more.

anyways, still hunting for one.

[Undead Sega]

hey everyone, i know it has been awhile, but im back with still not one of these camcorders, however i am eagar to get one after numberous times loosing a Canon Hv20 (which is one of my choices out of the 2).

i am wanting to ask, the quality of these camcorders, how to would rate them compared to others? (and i am not talking about HD cams either, but) like ones around the other Digital8 and MiniDV camcorders.

i ask this, because these 2 cams (740e and 840e) tend to have the larger CCD chip inside them, and if a beginger or an ameteur were to get one, would u recommend it? dont forget quality wise as well.

thanks, look forward to your responses.

[wiseleo]

hey everyone, i know it has been awhile, but im back with still not one of these camcorders, however i am eagar to get one after numberous times loosing a Canon Hv20 (which is one of my choices out of the 2).

i am wanting to ask, the quality of these camcorders, how to would rate them compared to others? (and i am not talking about HD cams either, but) like ones around the other Digital8 and MiniDV camcorders.

i ask this, because these 2 cams (740e and 840e) tend to have the larger CCD chip inside them, and if a beginger or an ameteur were to get one, would u recommend it? dont forget quality wise as well.

thanks, look forward to your responses.

For maximum affordable quality look into VX2000-series from Sony, TRV900 if you are on a lower budget. I shoot in low light, so for me a single CCD is simply not an option.

Ability to set manual white balance is essential.

D8 is a format for which supplies are increasingly more difficult to obtain.

I picked up a studio use-only trv900 that was just serviced by Sony ($250) a few months ago for $600. That's what... GPB 300 at current USD valuation?

By my budget, it's a bargain. Your definition of a bargain seems to be to get something for a lot less than the market price. Bid your maximum and wait for the auction to end. That works best. If you see a bargain Buy-it-now, do buy it now. Otherwise, bidding starts and BIN goes away.

Had I let the bidding start on my unit, I'd probably pay $900 in the end.

Back to 740/840... there are hacks to enable manual controls on them. http://www.camerahacker.com/Forums/DisplayComments.php?file=Video%20Camera/Sony/trv840...ture_hack.html

I'd suggest you don't attempt hacks until you are certain you have the correct firmware in your camcorder. This is for NTSC.

You may find it less expensive to buy an NTSC unit in the US and take advantage of the cheaper USD than a comparable PAL unit.

Stop dreaming and start filming

[Undead Sega]

Stop dreaming and start filming

hahahaha, u couldnt have said that better.

By my budget, it's a bargain. Your definition of a bargain seems to be to get something for a lot less than the market price. Bid your maximum and wait for the auction to end. That works best. If you see a bargain Buy-it-now, do buy it now. Otherwise, bidding starts and BIN goes away.

i understand ur theory there, but u would never guess this. a few months ago, a VERY rare auction came up on the UK ebay site, it was a 740e, now because of the high price i goes for in the german ebay (£200-300) and the amount of times i kept on loosing it, i literalyl gave up on it, although i did decide to watch it and seeing the price low, i was really certain that it was going to shoot up, no ohh no, do u know how much it went for?

£30+!!!

i thought, how stupid of me to not even have a go at it, cause i became more obsessed with getting a HV20, now also because of this, i have split my decision into those 2 catergories, cause im sure they will both satisfy me (not in some ways as u lot may think).

Back to 740/840... there are hacks to enable manual controls on them. http://www.camerahacker.com/Forums/DisplayComments.php?file=Video ... _hack.html

I'd suggest you don't attempt hacks until you are certain you have the correct firmware in your camcorder. This is for NTSC.

i am so glad u brought this up, because there isnt a consumer D8 cam out there (i believe) that has many manual controls on, and to be able to unlock them will be great! so because of this, how does this now compare to your answer earlier on about the Ability to set manual white balance is essential?

I shoot in low light, so for me a single CCD is simply not an option.

this is something i will be coming to as a situation, although the 740e and 840e has a advanced Hole Accumulation Diode, which helps reduces noise in low light. also u could adapt a light onto the shoe of the cam and then correct it using colour grading techniques (your results will look unbelievable )

[Undead Sega]

anyone?

[fnstoked]

Hi, I know this is old, but I have a Sony DCR-TRV840 that I'm looking to sell. It's been only lightly used, recently had the video head cleaned, and comes with an extra long life battery (battery indicator says ~350 mins).

Let me know if you (or anyone) is interested.

[Richard_G]

OP is in the UK so would want a TRV840e not an 840. 840 is NTSC, 840e is PAL.