Transfering Video: Firewire = USB 2.0?

[acid_burn]

Hello!

After reading some topics this week here, I had made up my mind that firewire was the way to go when it concerns video transfers. Why? Because obviously if I'm here is because I wanna do some video editing as opposed to just shooting family parties for fun.

So my conclusion was:
Firewire: Full DV "raw" dump on harddrive.
USB: Cheesy "I wanna do it quick" "Super Video Converter 2000 Family Edition" fixed encoded dump on harddrive.

So I could actually have a full quality stream on HD going Firewire, and I'd have some compressed not suitable for anything video going the USB way.

But now I found this and I'm confused

USB 1.0 port = Only useful for transferring stills as its speed rate is slow.
USB 2.0 port = I can actually dump exactly the same stream as if I was doing it with firewire?

Video transferred over USB 2 HIGH SPEED or Firewire is full quality, digital. There is no degradation of the video during transfer (capture) no matter which communications protocol you use. Capture is a real time process and there is no way to speed it up.

http://www.fortvir.net/wiki/index.php?pagename=USB%20and%20Firewire

What gives?


I'm mainly asking because I have no firewire right now and wouldn't like to spend some extra bucks on a card, if I cant get the exact same results with a USB 2.0 transfer (well supposing the camcorder I buy has 2.0 USB port).

Thanks for your time!

[edDV]

Firewire is well supported for DV format transfer in XP, Vista, MACOS and Linux.

DV format over USB2 is possible in theory but is currently supported by few applications. The camcorders and applications that support it will cost far more than spending $20-$40 on a cable and IEEE-1394 card.


PS: Only a few Panasonic camcorder models support full DV over USB2 and you must use the Panasonic software for data transfer. Is this the camcorder you own?

[KBeee]

Depends on the camera.
Some will only transfer low quality video (webcam quality) or stills pictures via USB, others (like the Panasonic GS 400) will transfer DV AVI through the USB2 connection.

:edit:
edDV beat me to it

[acid_burn]

Oh gee thanks

Well no I dont own any, Im just trying to make a decision. In that case I think the GS80 (kinda the one that I'm to take to the altar) has only USB 1.0 and even if it did then I guess yes, 20 bucks is cheaper than I dunno, premiere or avid? (I guess thats what edDV is talking about for DV through USB2.0).

So I guess I have to buy that firewire card...

Will any el cheapie 20 bucks one with included cable on amazon such as this one will do for full quality transfer or am I to expect some "oddities"?

Thanks for your time

[JohnnyMalaria]

I guess yes, 20 bucks is cheaper than I dunno, premiere or avid? (I guess thats what edDV is talking about for DV through USB2.0).

The USB option is a good one.

EDIT: Ooops - big typo. Meant to say "The USB option is NOT a good one". No doubt that created confusion. Sorry!

Microsoft do provide the drivers in XP but there are limitations compared to the FireWire option (e.g., you can't send video back to the camcorder via USB - this may not be important to you, though).

FireWire cards are all pretty much the same. However, some come bundled with "lite" versions of well-known editing software. They have enough functionality to be useful and will do the transfer of the video to your computer.

These "lite" versions also let you upgrade to the full versions with significant savings (certainly more than the cost of the FireWire card in the first place).

[edDV]

Oh gee thanks

Well no I dont own any, Im just trying to make a decision. In that case I think the GS80 (kinda the one that I'm to take to the altar) has only USB 1.0 and even if it did then I guess yes, 20 bucks is cheaper than I dunno, premiere or avid? (I guess thats what edDV is talking about for DV through USB2.0).

Microsoft added API support for DV over USB2 back around DirectX8 but never supported it with Windows Movie Maker. Few companies have gone this direction.

I'm not aware of any general purpose edit software that supports DV over USB2 except for special cases like XDCAM (>$25,000) with Vegas and some special support for the Panasonic HVX-200 (>$6000). The consumer Panasonics need to use Panasonic software to transfer over USB2 to hard disk. Then the edit software will import the resulting DV-AVI file. Maybe this is being picked up in the latest versions of Prosumer edit software but has been slow to grow. Assume USB2 won't work unless you know better.

[acid_burn]

Hey!

Thanks you both

Well you obviously convinced me into FireWire.

JohnnyMalaria, I think unfortunately, or at least, the cheapie cards Ive seen on amazon just dont come with lite versions of good stuff but mostly "super video software 2020", but Ill keep on looking maybe one of them does

edDV, what you said about software basically tells me "dammit, go get a firewire!!!". I did not like the panasonic software part obviously, so USB = see ya :P

Ok its clear but one more thing... 4-to-6 or 4-to-4 or 6-to-4

I downloaded the GS80 manual from panasonic's website.

It didnt say (how bad!!!!) how many pins the camera needed, but it did listed some firewire part serial. I googled for it, and turned out being panasonic 4-to-4 firewire cable.

But now I see there are also 4-to-6 and/or 6-to-4

So should I check on the firewire card as well? The camcorder has 4 pins, but does the firewire has 4 or 6, or most just have 6, or can I use a 6-pin card with a 4-pin cable or...?

And 4-to-6 pins is the same as 6-to-4 pins? Might sound stupid, but I never saw a firewire port or cable in my whole life, and was just checking this cable and it says "4-Pin to 6-Pin" and unless Im blind the two ends definitely dont look the same, so Im guessing I have to take in account the number of pins and the "side" they are in?
(Like 4-Pin to 6-Pin could work but 6-Pin to 4-Pin not)?

Thanks for your time once again

[edDV]

4 pins do the data. Pins 5 and 6 add power.

Go by connector shape at each end. Power isn't needed for a camcorder.



Right is 4 pin, left is 6 pin.

[KBeee]

I can only talk for the Panasonic GS400 and XP Pro SP2, but there's no problem at all using USB2 to copy DV from that camera to PC using Windows Movie Maker.
Works fine, P&P, no dropped frames, no special software or drivers loaded.
However, this is the exception, not the rule.

[acid_burn]

Thanks edDV, I notice you say 5-6 are for power and indeed on a closer look that firewire el cheapie I posted above from amazon, has a 4-to-6 cable so I the 6 goes in the card and 4 in the camera as with all of them :P

KBeee, yes Unfortunately it seems I was even excited about it, but after the explanation given to me all along in this topic, i decided to go the firewire way, whether forced (if I get the GS80) or not (if I get something better than the GS80, but its unlikely).

Thanks