HDV tapes

[mikehorne]

Ok here is my first post on this forum.

Was in my local Sony Centre yesterday anquiring about HD tapes, i have the Sony HC1 camcorder. The sales guy asked why i was getting the HDV tapes when the sony premium DV tapes are just as effective at capturing HDV ???

Any comments please

[Baldrick]

Google for hdv tape vs dv tape and you will find lots of information like http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=1744 .

[racer-x]

Don't fall for the hype. You can use regular DV tapes just fine for HDV camcorders. I use cheap $3 Sony Premium DV tapes all the time. In fact I usually reuse them ten time or more. I have never had a drop-out yet.

[edDV]

HDV tapes record the same bit rate as DV format. Do normal DVC tapes record with errors? Maybe. Try them and learn what visible errors result. I haven't found many or any for that matter. When I record for a paying client I use HDV labeled tape.
http://www.tapestockonline.com/somidvhd63mi.html
http://www.tapestockonline.com/jvcmidvprohd.html

But when I record my own regular HDV stuff, I see no difference using "Premium" MiniDV tape
http://www.tapestockonline.com/pan63minprof.html?tsoref=googadw&gclid=CNquhfmb040CFQf_YAod80sLcA

So far, I'm very happy with Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ at ~$3.50online

I might have been happy with Sony DVC 60-Minute Premium MiniDV but sel.Sony never shipped my order when I was counting on them. They confirmed my order and never shipped. That alone sent me searching for an equal or better tape and the Panasonic Pro PQ series seems to have much better internet reviews. I've bought 30 so far for and am happy with them for HDV performance.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&stor...9&tab=Features
http://www.tapestockonline.com/pan63minprof.html?tsoref=googadw&gclid=CNquhfmb040CFQf_YAod80sLcA

From one you get 2 day delivery, from the other they never deliver or offer an explanation why. Sel.Sony is not a trusted supplier IMO so if you want Sony tape, I recommend you buy from another source than Sel.Sony. As you can see they are on my bad supplier list. Since this experience I've bought an HDV camcorder from Canon, 46" LCD-TV from Samsung and all my DV/HDV tapes from Panasonic suppliers.

[dun4cheap]

Don't fall for the tape game. I use the TDK DV Tapes from costco. The only thing I recommend is to stick with the same tapes. Sony, TDK, just use the sames ones. I have been using these on my Canon HV10 since October.

[mikehorne]

what i was thinking was this:

using premiere pro, add the colour bars to the time line, export to tape and fill the tape (dv or hdv) with the bars, if there is no drop out then presume the tape is good?

[edDV]

what i was thinking was this:

using premiere pro, add the colour bars to the time line, export to tape and fill the tape (dv or hdv) with the bars, if there is no drop out then presume the tape is good?

All DV and HDV camcorders have drop compensation. That means dropouts are electronically detected and filled with pixels from the previous line. Minor dropouts would not be seen with color bar input. Severe head clogs or tape problems overwhelm the dropout compensator and show as large random noise blocks in the playback. DV format records field by field so errors are different frame by frame. HDV records in 15 frame GOPs so dropout errors in an I frame affect up to 15 consecutive frames.

Premium tape formulations have greater depth of RF modulation and perhaps less dropouts. Since video is recorded digitally, picture detail and signal to noise are fixed regardless of tape formulation. Digital recording provides 100% quality so long as the signal strength is adequate. If the playback signal strength falls below the noise floor, picture breakup occurs.

Sony's claims for DVM63HD tape are
# 3dB higher carrier-to-noise ratio*
# 90% fewer errors due to 40% increase in carrier-to-noise ratio*
# 50% fewer dropouts*
# 50% less tape shrinkage*
# An additional 3-minutes for test recording
# New lubricant improves tape stability running under a wide range of operating conditions

The first three relate to recorded signal strength vs standard grade tape. Other premium grade DVC tapes offer intermediate to similar performance.

Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ Pro MiniDV tape has near similar perfomance at one third the street cost. Their claims of "400%" greater recording density translates to 6dB.
http://www.supermediastore.com/panasonic-minidv-63-minute-ay-dvm63pq-minidv-tape.html
http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11201&catalo...del=AY-DVM63PQ

[mikehorne]

thanks, .... you work for PANASONIC don't you....

[mikehorne]

...so is there very little difference between sony HDV & SONY PREMIUM DV tapes, they are only being used for a road trip across canada.

[edDV]

...so is there very little difference between sony HDV & SONY PREMIUM DV tapes, they are only being used for a road trip across canada.

It might make a difference 20 years out or if you played the tape in a different HDV camcorder. Different camcorder mechanical tape path alignment may cause lower signal to noise playback. If the tape performs 3dB better that may be enough to make a difference between solid playback vs noise at the margin.