DVD Rebuilder Pro & CCE in Multipass VBR mode

[devnulllore]

Hi,

Been playing around with live motion dvds and I am at a stalemate with DVD Rebuilder Pro. I read all the manuals and searched around a bit but I need to know specificaly what settings I need to change to do a multipass VBR encoding. I have seen how to set it up from the CCE settings but not from within DVD Rebuilder.

Any help would be very greatly appreciated!

~dev

[GKar]

DVD-RB free version is already setup for CCE VBR as default. I just have to select Mode/CCE. I use CCE Basic so I'm limited to 2 pass. Options/CCE Options/Advanced (Expert) Settings lets you choose the amount of passes, Bias etc...Hopefully the Pro version is similarly configured as the Free one.

I use DVD-RB 0.97 because the newer versions screw up my TmpGenc authored stuff.

[devnulllore]

DVD-RB free version is already setup for CCE VBR as default. I just have to select Mode/CCE. I use CCE Basic so I'm limited to 2 pass. Options/CCE Options/Advanced (Expert) Settings lets you choose the amount of passes, Bias etc...Hopefully the Pro version is similarly configured as the Free one.

I use DVD-RB 0.97 because the newer versions screw up my TmpGenc authored stuff.

I paisd for and own the Pro version. I was just wondering if I had to set VBR as I thought the default was CBR so it could be more accurate with the final size.

[guns1inger]

2 (or more) pass VBR is just as accurate with file size as CBR encoding. Only single-pass VBR or Constant Quality has less predictable file sizes.

You will also notice that while DVD-RB uses multi-pass VBR for CCE (and if I remember rightly, the default number of passes is set to 3), it uses a very narrow range for the min/avg/max settings, so there isn't a lot of room for error.

[devnulllore]

2 (or more) pass VBR is just as accurate with file size as CBR encoding. Only single-pass VBR or Constant Quality has less predictable file sizes.

You will also notice that while DVD-RB uses multi-pass VBR for CCE (and if I remember rightly, the default number of passes is set to 3), it uses a very narrow range for the min/avg/max settings, so there isn't a lot of room for error.

Ok, with that in mind may I ask what would be the best settings for a live convert DVD? I read an article that explained that 4 or more passes is recommended for CBR and that 1 pass VBR can actualy produce a better quality image. Does this mean if I use 2 or 3 pass it will in some way increase the quality?

Also what would be the best values to use in the other settings for live shows, lots of action etc...?

Thanks so much for the info it has been very helpful.

[guns1inger]

I don't know where you read that, but it's crap.

CBR requires one pass, and won't benefit from multiple passes. CBR is best used when you have a bitrate of 8000 or higher, however with live concert footage you may still get benefits from VBR encoding.

VBR benefits from multiple passes as it uses each pass prior to the final to refine the allocation of data. Most encoders only go to to passes. The first analyses the video, the second refines and encodes. CCE allows pretty much as many passes as you want. Some people will tell you there is a great between 3 passes and 9 passes. If you can see it, it's in your head and you see a shrink. 3 passes is enough in most cases, and after 5 passes the difference is mathematically insignificant. You also have to take into account that each pass takes as long as the pass before it, so a 3 pass VBR encode takes 3 times as long a single pass CBR. 5 passes takes 5 times as long, etc.

Nothing is going to increase the quality above what you have now. Don't go into this think encoding can make your video better. It can't. Your sole aim here to make the video smaller with the smallest reduction in quality possible.

Personally, I find that 3 passes is enough in most cases. HCEnc can match the quality (but not speed) in many cases and only does two passes anyway. You might find you want 4 or 5, but after that you are just wasting time and working your PC hard for no good reason.

[devnulllore]

I don't know where you read that, but it's crap.

CBR requires one pass, and won't benefit from multiple passes. CBR is best used when you have a bitrate of 8000 or higher, however with live concert footage you may still get benefits from VBR encoding.

VBR benefits from multiple passes as it uses each pass prior to the final to refine the allocation of data. Most encoders only go to to passes. The first analyses the video, the second refines and encodes. CCE allows pretty much as many passes as you want. Some people will tell you there is a great between 3 passes and 9 passes. If you can see it, it's in your head and you see a shrink. 3 passes is enough in most cases, and after 5 passes the difference is mathematically insignificant. You also have to take into account that each pass takes as long as the pass before it, so a 3 pass VBR encode takes 3 times as long a single pass CBR. 5 passes takes 5 times as long, etc.

Nothing is going to increase the quality above what you have now. Don't go into this think encoding can make your video better. It can't. Your sole aim here to make the video smaller with the smallest reduction in quality possible.

Personally, I find that 3 passes is enough in most cases. HCEnc can match the quality (but not speed) in many cases and only does two passes anyway. You might find you want 4 or 5, but after that you are just wasting time and working your PC hard for no good reason.

I also read in another artivle that Intervideo's DVD Copy 5 has a new proprietary transcoding method that can actualy surpass the output quality of DVD Shrink. I guess I would have to try this to see. Every tried that?

[guns1inger]

Transoders are always going to produce lower quality than re-encoding with a good encoder, no matter whose it is or what the marketing guys claim. Intervideo have been claiming this since about version 2, before Shrink got AEC. Then AEC was added it is was better than Intervideo. Shrink hasn't been changed in three years, so I would hope the competition would have caught up by now.

Shrink has two big advantages over Intervideo. It's faster and it's cheaper. The $$ you pay for Intervideo aren't necessarily equal to the difference in quality.

Finally, if quality is the primary concern then transcoding is not even considered. Re-encode with DVD RB with CCE or HCEnc and the quality will be better than anything a transcoder will produce in most circumstances.

[ntscuser]

Hi,

Been playing around with live motion dvds and I am at a stalemate with DVD Rebuilder Pro. I read all the manuals and searched around a bit but I need to know specificaly what settings I need to change to do a multipass VBR encoding.

Options-->CCE Options-->Advanced (Expert) Settings

[ntscuser]

Transoders are always going to produce lower quality than re-encoding with a good encoder, no matter whose it is or what the marketing guys claim.

When the amount of transcoding required is relatively small, I've found DVD Shrink to be superior as it preserves more of the original encoding.

[devnulllore]

I checked the bitrate on most of these live dvd's and they average 7500 hoe does that effect what the settings should be and number of passes erc...?

[guns1inger]

The current bitrate isn't the issue. It's what the bitrate has to be reduced to to make it fit on a single layer disc that matters. Simplest way is to load it into Shrink and look at the percentage of the original that it has to be reduced to. Every person has their own threshhold, and it does vary from disc to disc, however for me, if I have to reduce it by more than 10% it goes into rebuilder. If I'm not in a hurry then I might use Rebuilder for a 5% reduction if it is something I will watch again and again.

[devnulllore]

The current bitrate isn't the issue. It's what the bitrate has to be reduced to to make it fit on a single layer disc that matters. Simplest way is to load it into Shrink and look at the percentage of the original that it has to be reduced to. Every person has their own threshhold, and it does vary from disc to disc, however for me, if I have to reduce it by more than 10% it goes into rebuilder. If I'm not in a hurry then I might use Rebuilder for a 5% reduction if it is something I will watch again and again.

Got it! This all make much more sense to me now. Your knowlege has helped me greatly.

Thank You!