Would 640 X 272 to 720 X 400 be correct?

[hydrophonicaudio]

I have a video file whose dimensions are 640 X 272 (and I'm assuming a 16:9 aspect ratio). I want to change the size so that the vid will show "full screen" on the TV once I convert it mpg and burn it to DVD. The formula that I used was to subtract 640 X 352 from 720 X 480 and add the difference to my new file which is 640 X 272 (The majority of my vids have a dimension of 640 X 352).


My question is: is this the correct way to go about figuring out what my new dimensions will be when I want to make a vids dimensions bigger? If this is the incorrect way to determine what the new dimension should be, would someone mind walking me through how to properly determine it?

[manono]

What kind of a TV are you making it "full screen" for, a 4:3 or a 16:9 TV?

Either one you make it for, cropping it is involved, as well as resizing and reencoding. Since I see no mention of cropping, but only resizing, then you're doing it wrong, and are guaranteed to wind up with a bad aspect ratio. And 720x400 isn't a DVD resolution.

It's a stupid idea anyway, cutting off the sides of a perfectly good movie. A 640x272 AVI when resized for 16:9 NTSC DVD is supposed to have a good amount of black bars above and below the active video. FitCD gives me this (more-or-less) for a 640x272 AVI to 16:9 NTSC DVD script:

LanczosResize(720,368)
AddBorders(0,56,0,56)

I don't know how to translate that to MAC talk, but you resize and then add in the black bars.

[hydrophonicaudio]

Thanks, I appreciate the info. As you can tell, I'm a total n00b when it comes to these things. I'm basically trying to catch up to everyone else's level on the board.


Anyway, this is the type of info that I need. I wish that there was some chart available that listed stuff like this. Unfortunately, none of the apps on the Mac (that I know of) do what your app does. That's why I was making a guesstimate as to what my new size will be. I also didn't have the slightest clue about the cropping. Based off of your information however, I can go back and fix the vid so that it will look as it should on screen.

Oh, I'm not sure if the TV is 4:3 or 16:9. The TV is rather old (maybe 3 years, could be older)...is their a way that I can look up the ratio for the TV?

[manono]

Oh, I'm not sure if the TV is 4:3 or 16:9.

That's easy. Is it the old square kind (4:3) or a widescreen TV set (16:9)? From your description, it sounds like a 4:3 set.

If you really want to make it fill a 4:3 TV set screen, then you'll have to crop over 43% of the sides away, and it won't even be a pan-and-scan movie, like you see on network TV, but just a cropped movie, missing a lot of important action. Filling a 16:9 TV set with an originally 640x272 AVI converted to DVD will mean cropping away 25% of the sides. Doing these things makes no sense at all, in my opinion.

[FulciLives]

Here is a video frame that is 640x272:




This is what that will look like on a 4:3 TV if you leave it widescreen:




Now if you resize it so as to make it "fit the screen" of a 4:3 TV then you get the following:



Now you know why home video widescreen versions of movies exist.

http://www.widescreen.org/

So in short ... leave it widescreen.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

Here is the same example again:




This is what that will look like on a 16x9 WS TV if you leave it widescreen:




Now if you resize it so as to make it "fit the screen" of a 16x9 WS TV then you get the following:




Not as "bad" but still missing some of the picture.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

A picture's worth a thousand words, eh FulciLives? Thanks for laying out the widescreen case so clearly.

[hydrophonicaudio]

This is great guys. Ok, as far as the TV is concerned, it's 16:9. So when I make the viewing size bigger, I will have the look of the second screenshot in Fulci's first post.

Now I know you guys are wondering why on earth I'm even concerned with changing the viewing size in the first place right? Well, apparently when I don't change the size, after converting to mpeg and then burning to disc, the movie appears on the TV screen in the same size that the movie would be in if you opened it up in Quicktime or VLC Player. It basically sits in the top-left region of the screen...it isn't centered and it's definitely NOT large enough to really view anything. Hence, my obsession with changing the viewing size of the vid.

Now my original problem still exists: I don't know how to calculate what the new size will be based off of the original size. So far, I'm seeing vids in these sizes:

640 X 352
640 X 272
672 X 272

Now that last size is new....I just noticed it on a vid that I downloaded this morning. What I need is someone to tell me what type of formula to use to determine what the new viewing size is (and what portions to crop if needed) based off of the original size. Manono, I know that the app you use on your PC basically does this for you, but since none of the Mac apps do this, I'll have to calculate size manually.

[FulciLives]

This is great guys. Ok, as far as the TV is concerned, it's 16:9. So when I make the viewing size bigger, I will have the look of the second screenshot in Fulci's first post.

Now I know you guys are wondering why on earth I'm even concerned with changing the viewing size in the first place right? Well, apparently when I don't change the size, after converting to mpeg and then burning to disc, the movie appears on the TV screen in the same size that the movie would be in if you opened it up in Quicktime or VLC Player. It basically sits in the top-left region of the screen...it isn't centered and it's definitely NOT large enough to really view anything. Hence, my obsession with changing the viewing size of the vid.

Now my original problem still exists: I don't know how to calculate what the new size will be based off of the original size. So far, I'm seeing vids in these sizes:

640 X 352
640 X 272
672 X 272

Now that last size is new....I just noticed it on a vid that I downloaded this morning. What I need is someone to tell me what type of formula to use to determine what the new viewing size is (and what portions to crop if needed) based off of the original size. Manono, I know that the app you use on your PC basically does this for you, but since none of the Mac apps do this, I'll have to calculate size manually.

Well I've never used a MAC but it sure sounds like you are doing something wrong.

To make a 16x9 WS anamorphic NTSC DVD you do the following:

1.) If the original is 640x352 then you resize to 720x480

2.) If the original is 640x272 then you resize to 720x360 and add 60 black to the top and 60 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

3.) If the original is 672x272 then the person that made it probably "goofed up". To keep the aspect ratio the same for a 16x9 WS NTSC DVD you would resize to 720x400 and add 40 black to the top and 40 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

In each of these cases you want to set it up for a 16x9 WS encode instead of a 4:3 encode. Remember that a NTSC DVD is always 720x480 resolution but the encoder can "flag" it as 16:9 or 4:3 so you have to tell it which it is.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
This assumes that your source materials are "standard" MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) files that use 1:1 square pixel resolution resizing (which is 99.9% of the time the case).

[rumplestiltskin]

If all you're trying to do is view the video on your Mac's screen, use VLC or QT Player and show it full screen. Any alterations you do to the original file (like resizing it) will only make the file huge (in MB's or even GB's) and will not improve quality at all.

If you're trying to show these videos on another device, that's another matter entirely and we can address that if you wish. Let us know.

[FulciLives]

If all you're trying to do is view the video on your Mac's screen, use VLC or QT Player and show it full screen. Any alterations you do to the original file (like resizing it) will only make the file huge (in MB's or even GB's) and will not improve quality at all.

If you're trying to show these videos on another device, that's another matter entirely and we can address that if you wish. Let us know.

The person that started this thread already mentioned that he/she wants to convert to a standard DVD Video that will be watched on a 16x9 WS TV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[hydrophonicaudio]

Fulci....THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!!!! Thank you for this....you are a godsend!!!

[hydrophonicaudio]

This is great guys. Ok, as far as the TV is concerned, it's 16:9. So when I make the viewing size bigger, I will have the look of the second screenshot in Fulci's first post.

Now I know you guys are wondering why on earth I'm even concerned with changing the viewing size in the first place right? Well, apparently when I don't change the size, after converting to mpeg and then burning to disc, the movie appears on the TV screen in the same size that the movie would be in if you opened it up in Quicktime or VLC Player. It basically sits in the top-left region of the screen...it isn't centered and it's definitely NOT large enough to really view anything. Hence, my obsession with changing the viewing size of the vid.

Now my original problem still exists: I don't know how to calculate what the new size will be based off of the original size. So far, I'm seeing vids in these sizes:

640 X 352
640 X 272
672 X 272

Now that last size is new....I just noticed it on a vid that I downloaded this morning. What I need is someone to tell me what type of formula to use to determine what the new viewing size is (and what portions to crop if needed) based off of the original size. Manono, I know that the app you use on your PC basically does this for you, but since none of the Mac apps do this, I'll have to calculate size manually.

Well I've never used a MAC but it sure sounds like you are doing something wrong.

To make a 16x9 WS anamorphic NTSC DVD you do the following:

1.) If the original is 640x352 then you resize to 720x480

2.) If the original is 640x272 then you resize to 720x360 and add 60 black to the top and 60 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

3.) If the original is 672x272 then the person that made it probably "goofed up". To keep the aspect ratio the same for a 16x9 WS NTSC DVD you would resize to 720x400 and add 40 black to the top and 40 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

In each of these cases you want to set it up for a 16x9 WS encode instead of a 4:3 encode. Remember that a NTSC DVD is always 720x480 resolution but the encoder can "flag" it as 16:9 or 4:3 so you have to tell it which it is.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
This assumes that your source materials are "standard" MPEG-4 (DivX and XviD) files that use 1:1 square pixel resolution resizing (which is 99.9% of the time the case).

Ok, here's what I got using your info Fulci:










Obviously, I'm missing something here. Either I'm not setting the correct flag in the MPEG tab for VisualHub to maintain 16:9 aspect ratio OR instead of putting the crops on the top and bottom, I should've put the crops on the right and left (I say this because the crops showed up on the right and left side when I clearly specified top and bottom).

I don't know....all I know is that I'm getting really frustrated trying to get this stuff right. This is 5th time that I've tried to encode this clip.......

[manono]

3.) If the original is 672x272 then the person that made it probably "goofed up". To keep the aspect ratio the same for a 16x9 WS NTSC DVD you would resize to 720x400 and add 40 black to the top and 40 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

You sure about that, FulciLives? Using FitCD, I get:

LanczosResize(720,352)
AddBorders(0,64,0,64)

or thereabouts. And I wouldn't necessarily say that 672x272 has a bad aspect ratio. Lots of so-called 2.35:1 movies are really 2.45:1 or so.

hydrophonicaudio,

Obviously, I'm missing something here.

When I click on your pics, I get taken somewhere that wants me to register. I can't see the pics clearly. However, if that pic is of the unresized 720x480 video, then people are supposed to look tall and thin - that is, they're supposed to have bad aspect ratio. You're encoding for 16:9, and when made into a DVD and played, the player will resize it to 854x480 (480 x 16/9 = 853.33), making everything look "normal" again.

If it's 720x400, it looks to me like a bunch of black was added to the sides, rather than above and below, so whatever happened, it's still messed up. Maybe a real MAC guy will come along soon and help you out.

[Squash]

I'm not a Mac user either, but it looks like you've cropped 40 off the top and the bottom, rather than added borders. Set those back to 0 and try this in the "Extra ffmpeg Flags:" box on the bottom right of your picture:

-s 720x400 -padtop 40 -padbottom 40

I don't know if the "-s 720x400" is needed since it's set in the box above. Maybe some Mac/ffmpeg experts can lend you a hand.

Good luck.

[rumplestiltskin]

I misread one of the early posts and saw "Mac" where it was written "TV". Sorry for the red herring.

Perhaps hydrophonicaudio might want to try Toast, as that will automatically adjust the size of the frame so that it fills the screen but still respects the original proportions.

Alternatively, ffmpegX will do the same (and it is less $$, of course). The burning of the VIDEO_TS folder could then be done using Burnz (which is an excellent burning app).

[hydrophonicaudio]

I misread one of the early posts and saw "Mac" where it was written "TV". Sorry for the red herring.

Perhaps hydrophonicaudio might want to try Toast, as that will automatically adjust the size of the frame so that it fills the screen but still respects the original proportions.

Alternatively, ffmpegX will do the same (and it is less $$, of course). The burning of the VIDEO_TS folder could then be done using Burnz (which is an excellent burning app).

Quite alright. Everyone is doing their best to help me out without cursing me out in frustration, lol!!! So it's all to the good bruh.....


As far as Toast, I do use it to burn my images (.iso or .dmg), but I hate using it to encode.....it's REALLY slow on my G4 PowerBook. While VisualHub is no speeed demon on my G4, encode times usually float around 1 1/2 hour to 2 hours. With Toast, I ALWAYS end up with processing times that are substantially longer.

I actually tried ffmpegX before I started using VisualHub, but it is way too confusing for me.

[hydrophonicaudio]

I'm not a Mac user either, but it looks like you've cropped 40 off the top and the bottom, rather than added borders. Set those back to 0 and try this in the "Extra ffmpeg Flags:" box on the bottom right of your picture:

-s 720x400 -padtop 40 -padbottom 40

I don't know if the "-s 720x400" is needed since it's set in the box above. Maybe some Mac/ffmpeg experts can lend you a hand.

Good luck.

Thanks for the Cheat codes. I will definitely give them a try and report back soon......

[FulciLives]

3.) If the original is 672x272 then the person that made it probably "goofed up". To keep the aspect ratio the same for a 16x9 WS NTSC DVD you would resize to 720x400 and add 40 black to the top and 40 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

You sure about that, FulciLives? Using FitCD, I get:

LanczosResize(720,352)
AddBorders(0,64,0,64)

or thereabouts. And I wouldn't necessarily say that 672x272 has a bad aspect ratio. Lots of so-called 2.35:1 movies are really 2.45:1 or so.

You are correct manono. I made a mistake

If the source is 672x272 then you would want to do as you said. In other words resize from 672x272 to 720x352 and then add 64 black to the top and 64 black to the bottom to make it 720x480 overall.

Sorry about that.

@hydrophonicaudio

So as manono pointed out my math was bad BUT you also cropped instead of added so you made two mistakes. You used my bad math and then cropped instead of added.

I am not familiar with that program you are using but try resizing 672x272 to 720x352 and do no cropping. The program should add the black to the top and bottom to "even it out" and make it 720x480 in total.

If you want to try the suggestion by Squash then you need to adjust the math as follows:

-s 720x352 -padtop 64 -padbottom 64 instead of -s 720x400 -padtop 40 -padbottom 40

Again this is assuming a source of 672x272

I stand by my math on the other resolutions. The only one I "screwed up" was the 672x272 resolution. Again my apologies for that!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[havema-1]

Just to put the OP totally confused I used the conversion formula from this authoritative and pedantic site:

http://www.iki.fi/znark/video/conversion/

So: if the original pixel aspect ratio is 1:1 and the output is 16:9 NTSC DV/DVD, then:

resample 640x272 to 941x486, then crop that to 720x480

resample 640x352 to 727x486, then crop that to 720x480

resample 672x272 to 988x486, then crop that to 720x480

I tested this and a circle remained a perfect circle in the output (rectangular pixel 720x480 must be scaled to 875x480 for 16:9 square pixels).