Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick, my experience

[vhelp]

Evening everyone

After a busy late afternoon browsing and shopping around, I came home with
two new toys. One of them was a Saitek Eclipse (w/ blue back-lit keys)
keyboard. The keys had awsome tac-tile feel to them, and I was imediately sold
on it. (I needed a new keyboard cause this one has several bad keys)
But, it didn't work on either of my pc's. I was pretty pissed. An hour or so,
fiddling around, cause my keyboard was locked or something. Anyway, its
going back to the store. Well, enough of that. Lets get into my new toy, below.

Ok. Looking for an alternative to my hdtv Viewing and Recording rather than an
PCI version ( hauppague hvr-1600 ) I think I found what I am looking for,
hence the decision to purchse this new device, below.

Now on to my new toy. The Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick (PCTV 800e)

I picked this up at Best Buy, on sale for $79 dollars -- regular price, $129.99 dollars.



I can't say much about this little gizmo because it is not yet installed on my
XP Home computer. Its still installing, thanks to my not installing Service Pack 2.

Anyway, as I write this, it's still installing my Service Pack (SP2) driver.. 15 minutes
into the process, just to get the darn Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick installed -- RatZ.

I'm thinking that it will go smoothly & better than my hauppague hvr-1600 counterpart.

I can't wait.. I'll report back my (hopefully) happy results

--> www.pinnaclesys.com
--> http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Home/
--> Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick

-vhelp 4348

[vhelp]

** This space, intentionally left blank..

-vhelp 4349

[vhelp]

Below, are my first-stage reviews of my experiences. I am quite happy with this new
device, so far. Briefly..

Ok. From where I'm sitting, and at this point in my short time exploring this new toy,
all I can say, is, awsome! Really. I just love it. It even sports an A/V Connector
kit, for SD capturing from CableTV; Laserdisc; VCR; dv-cam; etc -- that will be
tested later on, also.

This thing started working right out of the box -- after driver/software installation.
No kidding!

Picture quality, IMHO, seems to be even better than the hauppague hvr-1600 card.
When I look at the picture inside VirtualDub-MPEG2, the detail seems to look, cleaner.
I'll have to do further analysis of this area before I can make a positive and final
report. Looks like the Hauppuge may be doing something else to their version
of its captured MPEG-2_TS -> PS MPEG-2 file. More on this, below.

The scaning for tv channels OTA ATSC/NTSC setup.

This is the area that concirned me most of all. I thought that it would take as long as the
wintv2000 software did, but it was much quicker.. about 10 minutes was all that it needed.
As it tunes to each channel, it displays them on screen for you to see what it pulled in.

Scanning for Channels (NTSC)-- Wow. In terms of reception pull, this thing is strong. It not
only pulled in my usual analog stations, but even added a few that I never seen, before.
Even without an antenna. I'm stumped. And the picture quality (w/out antenna) is
pretty amazing, fwiw.

Scanning for Channels OTA (ATSC)-- Same as above, good reception pickup.


Pinnacle TVCenter Pro.

What can I say. I was not expecting much from this, if anything, I thought it would not
even work. I was wrong. This tv program is nice. It just works.. straight and clean.
Only one glitch. Most channels seem to be upside-down in the window. I think that it
is a Graphics card driver issue or something. I have to find out what is causing it, and
report back.

It does seem to require .NET to work. Well, I did see it during the install of all the drivers
and software. (I did not know it or some aspect of the device require .NET) And, as some
of you may know, I appaul .NET, but under the cercumstances, I'll forgo it for the time
being. So far, it is not causing me any trouble. So, for now, if it ain't broke -- don't fix it !!

[ _ ] -- Fault #1: upside-down video during TVCenter Pro operation.


The MPEG-2 video/audio source

So far, in this devices version, the mpeg's are much cleaner and less pixelation, too. Again,
as I mentioned, above, further analysis need to be done. But so far, everything seems to
look great.

Video-- The mpeg's are produced by the Pinnacle TVCenter Pro software. I have not delved into
this area much. So there are some things I still have to learn about. But the captured
mpeg's are completly player-glitch-free !! They will play in anything.

Audio-- Because the audio is AC3 (I have not tested other formats.. ie, 5.1 etc)
when used inside VirtualDub-MPEG2, there is no sound. But this is not a problem for us
video enthusiasts.

A quick test for OTA ASTC reception and recording proved to be HD. When I tuned to my
channel, ABC, the source was easily reported as 1280 x 720p, AC3 audio, and 15MBits
bitrate, etc. The TVCEnter Pro software seems to only record as MPG. But I'll have to
investigate this area further, to be sure. Never the less, the mpeg's are in great shape
and quality.

All captured/recorded OTA ATSC are finalized to .MPG format. They seem to be in their
original form and not re-encoded by the software. But this still needs to be varified.

[ _ ] -- Fault #2: determine how the MPEG's are being created and what format.
[ _ ] -- Fault #3: determine if other formats can be recorded.. ie, avi; dv; divx; etc.


Picture Quality Aspects

What can I say. The picture seems to be better than the Hauppauge's, when played
inside the TVCenter Pro software vs. Hauppague's wintv2000 software. But further analysis
will have to be done to determine the vilidity/truth of this statement.

The above statements are based on the use of TVCenter Pro software only.

[ _ ] -- Fault #4: determine if the picture quality is better than Hauppauge's.


A/V feature connector kit

I have not tested this out, yet. It comes with a dongle for Composite (RCA) and S-Video,
and Audio connectors. I am planning on capture tests with this area. I hope to be able
to capture in RAW avi formats, and with high hope for drop-free capture ability across
USB-2 ports.

(for those that aren't aware.. USB-2 have a slightely better performance when its ports
are use from the rear side of the pc. It is the front side one's that are slightly slower)

[ _ ] -- Fault #5: determine success rate for analog (RAW) capturing performances.


Other issues/faults/pros etc.

The only issue (or, fault) that I can see with the Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick is that
when in use (capturing/recording video) it does tend to heat up a bit. Not a lot. But in
the summer hot months, the unit is obviously going to exhibit some heat. I pressume
that the fall/winter months will prove, warm only. I mean, its not like a user is going to
be recording all day long. So I doubt that this will be a problem in the interm.

So far, there doesn't seem to be any issues in operations while the hauppague hvr-1600
is still connected, etc. Everything seems to be working as it should, as far as I know.

Also. To be consistant in layout, I labeld #5 as a fault, though it is not.

[ X ] -- Fault #6: determine potential hazards/problems of units heat build-up.


Closing notes for this first-stage review

For a tiny little device, this usb-2 HDTV Tuner proved beyond this authors expectations.
I am stunned by some of its features.. A/V connectos; fast channel scanning; strong
antenna reception capability; and more.

I love it. Easy USB connect and go. What could anyone ask more of for.

-vhelp 4350

[edDV]

How far are you from the various TV station towers?

www.antennaweb.org will tell you.

Does this one have QAM tuning for cable?

[FulciLives]

I got the Hauppauge WinTV HVR 1600 (model 74021 LF Rev C182) and I had nothing but problems with it. If I had paid for it ... I would be pissed off.

So I will be watching (er, reading) what vhelp has to say about this Pinnacle product with keen eyes. My Pioneer stand alone DVD recorder doesn't want to burn these days so I need an alternative for the moment as I don't have the bucks now for a new HDD equipped stand alone DVD recorder plus HDTV recordings sound SO nice

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

Does this one have QAM tuning for cable?

Sorry edDV, as far as I know, it doesn't seem to support it. But, I haven't really
looked. I only found thouse links I posted, but didn't delve into them for QAM support.
fwiw, I do hope that this is supported, for fulks who could use it.

In case you don't remember, I'm pretty far away from the antenna (for OTA ASTC)
reception. But, from what I can tell, here, everything seems to be working fine.
The signal strength for instance, on ABC indicate 95% when prev (Hauppauge)
states 75% give or take. I'll have to re-test this out when I find the time. Right
now, I could care less, cause the thing is just making me so happy that I can't
get any shut-eye.. runing 2:46am here in New York.

Just found out that this thing can capture RAW avi (YUV->YUY2) without any
frame drops and low cpu ~30% or less. And I have a IDE 160-gig HDD which
is split into 3 partitions, and actually capturing on the root (XP operating system)
with success.. s-video was used. I'm so happy. I think I found my new toy for both
OTA ATSC and RAW avi capturing, hehe.

[ X ] -- MV: So far, this unit seems to ignore MV (macrovision) tapes.

I have to test more tapes. Doing that now..

-vhelp 4351

[yoda313]

All captured/recorded OTA ATSC are finalized to .MPG format. They seem to be in their
original form and not re-encoded by the software. But this still needs to be varified.

So this mpg recording. This retains the full hd spec than? Including the 5.1 if present? If so that would save me some editing steps. Might have to look into this unit for future consideration.

Currently my fusion card records in .tp (or .ts can't remember off hand). Then I have to use project x to strip to m2v and ac3 and then begin the downconversion. Not a huge step but considering that takes a lot of extra space and conversion time that might make it more worthwhile.

On a side note - I'd love it if software could automatically downconvert the hd res to dvd res while recording and retain the 5.1 for easy authoring. I guess that is what the new atsc dvd recorders do - they cap in 720x480 but keep the 5.1 if present and downstep it to sd.

Thanks for the report vhelp

[vhelp]

Hi all.

@ yoda313, as far as I can tell, the raw'est of source from OTA ASTC is when
its in its MPEG-2_TS format. That is its 'RAWest' format. Don't worry about
the multiple program contents inside these. I would think that it is better to obtain
this feed vs. the other's converted-to *new* mpeg-2 source. But the only
problem I see with this is (assuming that the source is issue-free) the process one has
to go through to decode/demux it to strip out the actual program content.

Personally, as long as I know that the maker's of the given device produces a good
working decoder/demuxer emplementation, I would rather *they* do it than I, cause
this would save me time and I could do more.

Also, I can't verify the 'retaining' bit completely. I can only get ABC, which is normally
spec'ed at (1280 x 720p 15MBits AC3 audio) and so far, all the sources have been
pointing to AC3 2/ch audio, but I have seen in VideoReDo where 5.1 was indicated.
All the content look similar in spec to the Hauppauge's. But the video does seem to
look a bit better. So I don't know.. for sure. Its still too early into this new cards
testing. Everything is all too exciting. I've had some good pluses so far. I'm trying
to be as accurate as possible. Last night was very taxing for me, being up till 3:30am
or so.

So this mpg recording. This retains the full hd spec than? Including the 5.1 if present?

I may have spoken out of context there. I ment that the source (after its been demuxed)
retains the actual program content without being re-encoded to a similar format. I
can only go by what I see in VideoReDo, DGIndex, and VirtualDub-MPEG2 's info/detail
report.

I missed the 95% of ABC's movie last night with the PCTV HD pro stick, though I did
catch bits and pieces of it with the Hauppauge's. But, then it crashed seriously, and
I haven't been able to get it (wintv2000) back. Yanking the hvr-1600 card out and
back in, did nothing. I don't know what's going on with it. But now, all of the sudden,
WatchHDTV seems to (sometimes) pick up ABC (it never did this with any of the major
networks, not that I could ever get them all.. ie, ABC; and assuming NBC; FOX; etc)
This was another reason why I wanted something more external, like a USB device.
No need to ever get under the hood. And with the hvr-1600 and my cpu case, the
i/o cards never seem to fit in snug-tight. Instead, they become loose as soon as
you begin screwing it in. Have a closer look when you screw in your Fusion card.
This causes damage to the mothboard and/or you i/o card. Right up to this point,
I never screwed it (hvr-1600) in. But yesterday, I decided to screw it in, anyway.
You could see one end of the i/o card sicking out.. just a tiny bit. I guess that the
card in. It works sometimes, and others, it doesn't. I was careful with my winfast
card, and didn't screw it in. This is a new cpu and case. Everything is flush. Its
just these cards are getting more dumber and cheaper, now-a-days.

If I can get the hvr-1600 working again, I want to try capturing the OTA ASTC
sources, samutainiously with the PCTV HD pro stick, so that I can compare the two.
I wanted to do this last night. But, you see what caused that *not* to happen,
above.

This morning, the signal stength is at 87% now. I guess that last night, the weather
was clear'er during its first stage tests

Still, I'm stumped that I am getting OTA ASTC *and* analog antenna signals and all
through this one connection on the PCTV HD pro stick. I've never been able to do
this with anything else. So its interesting.

On a side note - I'd love it if software could automatically downconvert the hd res to dvd res while recording and retain the 5.1 for easy authoring.

I wouldn't mind such a feature, too. You could prob find something cmd-line wise,
to do this .. like in a batch setup. Maybe you could ask Soopafresh if he knows
any good cmd-line methods to get this done. I don't know of any cause I don't have
cards that output .TS sources.

Thanks for the report vhelp

You're welcome, everyone

-vhelp 4352

[jagabo]

vhelp, thanks from me too!

[lacywest]

Good Reading ... I bought the Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick ... about 2 months ago.

I tried it out connected to my UHF TV antenna that I have mounted on a 15 foot pole attached to my chimney ... does work very nicely.

But I only used my Dell 5150 Laptop.

I am wondering how well it will work with my desktop computers ... I do have a antenna feed going into my computer room.

My zip code is 93230

[edDV]

Usually these cards demux a TP out of the TS stream on the fly or convert to a VOB mux (Hauppauge) or simple MPeg2.

[TBoneit]

The links supplied don't show QAM support so IMHO that is a pretty good indicator it sin't supported. Oh well up until then it looked interesting.

[jagabo]

The Hauppauge HVR-1600 originally didn't have QAM support but later drivers added it (although I believe only some 1600's have the right chips). Their web site now advertises it as a feature.

[edDV]

The Hauppauge HVR-1600 originally didn't have QAM support but later drivers added it (although I believe only some 1600's have the right chips). Their web site now advertises it as a feature.

Only the latest models (product code 74021) support QAM tuning. The models with RCA audio connectors don't.

http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_hvr1600.html

[neoplasticity]

vhelp,

can you tell me how good video capture throught the composite video and audio in was? any sync problems?

thanks!

neo

[edDV]

I haven't extensively tested external analog capture with this card. I've been using it in an automated tuner capture mode. I usually use my Canopus ADVC-100 for analog capture.

I too would like to know if the HVR-1600 analog capture matches a PVR-250. I currently don't have one to compare.

[vhelp]

Last time: Aug 02, 2007 Thu 00:34am

Evening everyone

I've been kept pretty busy in a couple of programming projects, and I
have not received some of the e-mail notification of forum discussions.

@ neoplasticity

Are you addressing your question on the Pinnacle PCTV HD Pro Stick ??

..or the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1600 pci card ??

-vhelp 4375

[ameribass]

hey guys!
i just bought the hd pro stick today, and i was disappointed to find out that the remote control functionality isnt compatible with the windows media center application. i was wondering if anyone here has any idea on how to make a work-around as to making the remote control able to interact with windows media center, or if anyone knows of any websites or links that may already have a solution to my problem. other than that, it works phenomenally! any help appreciated, thanks!

[TBoneit]

You need a MCE remote AFAIK. A MCE remote will have a green button that when pressed starts the Media Center. I have MCE 2005 and until I got a MCE remote I couldn't even get media center to set up for TV. My solution was take back the non MCE and get a device from the same company that was marked for MCE. I also saved a few dollars as it was on sale.

Easiest way I know and I'll probably be corrected on this is use a wireless mouse for MCE and use the Pinnacle software for TV.

[Soopafresh]

On a side note - I'd love it if software could automatically downconvert the hd res to dvd res while recording and retain the 5.1 for easy authoring.


I wouldn't mind such a feature, too. You could prob find something cmd-line wise,
to do this .. like in a batch setup. Maybe you could ask Soopafresh if he knows
any good cmd-line methods to get this done. I don't know of any cause I don't have
cards that output .TS sources.

Yes, it could be done, but you'd have to tell your capturing software to save the .TS files in 1-2 GB segments. Then, copy the files as they are created to a different physical drive to avoid interrupting your capture as you re-encode. The re-encode process should probably be set to run at low priority. So yeah, you can have a bit of a head start on your downsizing, but I wouldn't do it without a dual core CPU and an additional physical hard drive.

[ameribass]

thanks for the reply TBoneit. i was going to resort to exactly what you said about the wireless mouse; i was just hoping that maybe someone created a driver of some sort that would enable the remote to work with MCE. oh well, thanks anyways!

[edDV]

thanks for the reply TBoneit. i was going to resort to exactly what you said about the wireless mouse; i was just hoping that maybe someone created a driver of some sort that would enable the remote to work with MCE. oh well, thanks anyways!

MCE mice are different. Supported models are listed on the MS MCE developer site. You make the MCE decision when you buy the tuner. The MCE tuner models come with an MCE mouse and often infrared cable box controllers but usually lack standalone software so you are stuck with MCE.

[TBoneit]

And I'm sure that Microsoft gets some sort of royalty on the MCE remotes.

[neoplasticity]

vhelp,

asking about the pctv hd usb

thanks

[mmmelaney]

Just found out that this thing can capture RAW avi (YUV->YUY2) without any
frame drops and low cpu ~30% or less. And I have a IDE 160-gig HDD which
is split into 3 partitions, and actually capturing on the root (XP operating system)
with success.. s-video was used. I'm so happy. I think I found my new toy for both
-vhelp 4351

Vhelp: Do you mean to say this tuner has Video-In capabilities? I have had mine for 8 months, but Pinnacle's documentation is pretty spotty so I am unclear. Could I hook a VCR into the tuner through S-video and record a tape to my hard drive? Would it require software like Scenalyzer? I didn't see anything about this in Pinnacle's software. I don't have any other capture card either.

[mmmelaney]

My Review of the Pinnacle 800e:

This thing is great for the price. The TV center software sucks because it crashes often, and the EPG interface is remedial, so I use it with Xp Media Center instead. I also use ATI's Remote Wonder (Pinnacle's remote is a joke.)

It comes with an antenna, and the reception for DTV is pretty good (if you're in a busy US area.) The analogue reception sucks though. I haven't tried it with cable or outside antenna. You can hook anything into this card through the coax connector with excellent results. However, I tried splitting the antenna signal out to a TV so I could watch another show while recording; the signal became too weak.

The picture is fantastic on my laptop. It is a little jumpy in MCE, but with Pinnacle's MCE add-on, and reducing my background processes it improves. I have had great results compressing recorded dvr-ms tv shows with Crunchie. I cut commercials with DVRMSToolbox, but it's background processing can make new recordings jumpy too.

The only thing that's missing is an AM/FM receiver, but for the $40 at Best Buy (they matched an Internet deal I found) this is a heck of a deal. Move over Tivo!!

My only other gripe is that a lot of media software and epg programs are still not compatible with it. I would really like to see Pinnacle work with Titan TV for remote recording and such.

[vhelp]

Evening guys.

Sorry I haven't responded around here's. I've been off the <><> grid <><> for a while. Anyway.

Hi mmmelaney,

Yes. I agree with you.., the pctv is a great (usb) hd tuner. Anything to get away
from the PCI aspects for this type of source medium, and leave it for better use
with analog pci capture devices. I use the Pinnacle Studio AV/DV card for
that on my XP home computer.

As to your question..

Do you mean to say this tuner has Video-In capabilities?

Yes. On the model I have it supports non-hd capture options. It comes with an
A/V Adaptor cable. If you look at the picture at the top of this page, if your model
didn't look like that, then you may have a pre-dated model that did not have this
option. I could be wrong. On your model, it could have ben an "accessory" option,
where you purchase a separte A/V Adaptor cable. I don't know. I'm guessing
at this point. But, look at the picture above, and where you see that little orange
circle -- its showing the cable option, as included with that model.

(look on the side of your pctv pro stick, and see if there is a usb notch. If there is,
then your model only needs to have a cable purchased from Pinnacle, otherwise, you
are out of luck, or you can find one (best buy) with that feature. Mine was on sale
for $79 buck -- instant rebate or something, from the $129 bucks)

(also, I use mine with the Pinnacle capture (recording) sofware. It works flawless
on my system. Plus, there is no (freeware) software that will convert dvr-ms files
to mpeg (PS) format. Most of apps either require that damn .NET or Trialware or
limited, not to mention bulky in size. I would prefer something (tiny) that I could run
via DOS console command line or something)

Yes, I also agree. The HD quality is very good on this unit and with my XP Home
computer, there is absolutely no issues. Not like my previous Hauppauge experience,
the [s:48c32fb6c7]hvr-1600[/s:48c32fb6c7], a pci hd tuner card w/ on-board hardware mpeg-2 chip. The quality
of that was not good enough for normal use. I had to hack it to get it to capture
at 30 mbits to get acceptable quality. But my analog cabletv is noisy and also has
the "harrington bar" or "strobing" or whatever its called. And there's nothing I can
do to get rid of it. Most of that noise was the cards fault, as it induce most of it.
So, the Pinnacle Studio AV/DV doesn't have this [s:48c32fb6c7]hvr-1600[/s:48c32fb6c7] inducing
nonsense. But, it has its own faults, but not so serious, as the cabletv I am under
has its share of problems, too, and which is part of the problems.

And then there was the hd 's (program stream) mpeg-2 file the wintv2000 software
would create. It was problematic. I had to hack that too. Actually, I developeded
a small tool that transcoded the mpeg-2 header part which when run through this
tool, would ultimately allow my wintv2000 recorded mpeg's to open in most tools.
The wintv2000 (to some extent) was buggy at writing the captured hd mpegs, but
mainly because it intailed its own decoding (of hd streams) methods and re-writing
new (parsed) mpegs. However, the tool was never publicly released. No one really
uses the wintv2000 software anyway. Anyway.

But, I love the pctv's hd quality. The picture looks great on my XP Home computer.
So much, that I'm left feeling it looks better than the [s:48c32fb6c7]hvr-1600[/s:48c32fb6c7]'s picture.

-vhelp 4401

[TBoneit]

Hmmm...
convert dvr-ms files to mpeg?

I never looked for free. I do have .net loaded and I had already paid for TMPGEnc products that can take the file format from windows MCE Edition.

So I can open a capture from the capture device made via MCE, Open TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 trim if needed and author as standard DVD or .divx, done.

Maybe the fact that I don't automatic look for free is why I'll never be rich? I prefer Ease of use and saving time.

BTW what's your reason for disliking .net?

Cheers

[mmmelaney]

(also, I use mine with the Pinnacle capture (recording) sofware

I just chatted live with Pinnacle tech support. They said yes indeed, it does accept capture through RCA and S-video. I am also hoping I can use the regular Coax connection but will test this.

She seemed to think I only needed the version of Studio 10 that came with the CD? But the knowledgebase said something about registering and paying for it. Were you able to use the Studio software without paying extra? I will also try Virtual Dub and let you all know.

I am so excited! I can't believe I get a capture card, HD TV, and Tivo-like capabilities on my laptop for $40! Plus I can just hook my laptop to any TV through S-video and have HD TV big screen. This thing rocks!

[mmmelaney]

Hmmm...
convert dvr-ms files to mpeg?

Yes! Use Crunchie and DVRMS Toolbox. They are free. My videos turn out perfect.


Support and download: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/community/crunchie/2937-arksofts-crunchie-release-v1-1-a.html